94 replies to this topic

[Bud Crue]

...ABSOLUTELY NUTHIN!
That edit was all for you Jackal.
---


TLDR: what in the holy hell is the role/function/niche of the Black Knight in this era of the game? What can it do that another mech can't do better?

Rant:
So I was once a pokemech player. I wanted them all, and I believed that all mechs should have a role and function and be somewhat "equivalent" to other mechs. I bought into this fiction because PGI (Paul at the time) said that was indeed the case (see the old info-tech PTS thread for reference).

Which brings me to the Black Knight.

When released this mech was OK but was pretty fragile. Then PGI as part of the second great re-quickening in late 2015 gave IS mechs the extra 10% energy range, and the BKs other excellent quirks including improved hit boxes, that led many clan players into near epileptic fits of rage what with the IS having a mech that could in theory stand up to a Timberwolf (other than the T-Bolt 5ss with its super duper mpl quirks of the time (RIP)).

Fast forward a year to 2016 and rescale and the the great nerffening (three times) of the BK (not to mention its increase in height) and then finally this year with the elimination of most weapon specific offensive quirks, and I am now at the point of wondering WTF is the function of this mech and why should I even consider taking one into a match?

I have 5 of them. All with very different builds. Yet NEVER does it ever enter my mind to take this mech over a Marauder, or even the Orion, or even a Grasshopper or Warhammer anymore. And in QP (group queue) I will take the Timberwolf (negative quirks and all) or a Night Gyr over the BK if a 75 is warranted.

The hardpoints are all waist to mid chest high (at best), the builds are all energy, the quirks are uninspired, all decent builds run fairly hot and all without much distinction over other energy boats. So I ask you, what is the point now of the BK in this day and age of mostly defensive quirks, and with a chassis that is distinctive only for the odd extra sensor range quirk...on an energy boat?

As it is the only reason I am ever inspired to take ANY of the BKs is because how sharp I think they look. Beyond looks though, I'd rather play any other 75 ton mech and damn near any 70 or 65 ton mech for that matter. Help me out here. Give me a reason not to shelve these things.

Edited by Bud Crue, 27 September 2017 - 11:35 AM.

[El Bandito]

Bud Crue, on 25 September 2017 - 06:51 PM, said:

TLDR: what in the holy hell is the role/function/niche of the Black Knight in this era of the game? What can it do that another mech can't do better?

Black Kniggit can carry the most amount of las-vomit firepower with the most amount of DHS in the IS Heavy class. That's about it. BL-7-KNT LAZORRRZ!


I am personally waiting for our Lord and Savior, the FlashUrbie.

Edited by El Bandito, 25 September 2017 - 07:17 PM.

[Snazzy Dragon]

Its role is being worse than clan laser vomit "equivalents," obviously!

Edited by Snazzy Dragon, 25 September 2017 - 06:56 PM.

[Lukoi Banacek]

In a game with this many mechs, there will never be real parity across all mechs. Balance refinements by PGI will always ensure that some mechs rise while others fall. Some will always struggle without some sort of significant quirkening (something PGI stated they are trying to get away from), due to low slung arms, hardpoint deficiencies, hitbox issues, convergence challenges etc.

Some mechs are doomed to be something you take out for funsies and not much else.

As a BLKNT fan myself, these mechs fall into that category. They have flashes of usefulness that are usually short lived and while I'm sure you'll get some quality build suggestions over the course of this thread (and some garbo-builds as well), the fact is, short of significant quirks to their energy role or to durability or some combo in between, they are likely to never emerge from "meh" territory.

If that means you cannot bring yourself to play them, by all means, shelve them. I've got 294 mechs myself. Every so often I spool up the old spreadsheet of stats to see which has the least games played, least damage average per match or some other stat and use that as an excuse to knock the dust off and play them 5-10 times. Some are a welcome blast from the past that earn their way back into my regular rotation. Most are pretty obvious in why they got relegated to the dust bin. Just the way it is in a game with this many options.

Edited by Lukoi Banacek, 25 September 2017 - 06:58 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

The only good one is the 6B, and it's situational due to the Great Rescaling.

El Bandito, on 25 September 2017 - 06:56 PM, said:

Black Kniggit can carry the most amount of las-vomit firepower with the most amount of DHS in teh IS Heavy class. That's about it.

WHM can do basically the same.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 25 September 2017 - 07:11 PM.

[MischiefSC]

justcallme A S H, on 25 September 2017 - 07:11 PM, said:

The only good one is the 6B, and it's situational due to the Great Rescaling.



WHM can do basically the same.

B6 has 5 more tons. Slightly better shield arms. Slightly better quirks.

The BK is bigger. Some people are size queens.

Don't judge.

[Jun Watarase]

Bud Crue, on 25 September 2017 - 06:51 PM, said:

TLDR: what in the holy hell is the role/function/niche of the Black Knight in this era of the game? What can it do that another mech can't do better?

Rant:
So I was once a pokemech player. I wanted them all, and I believed that all mechs should have a role and function and be somewhat "equivalent" to other mechs. I bought into this fiction because PGI (Paul at the time) said that was indeed the case (see the old info-tech PTS thread for reference).

Which brings me to the Black Knight.

When released this mech was OK but was pretty fragile. Then PGI as part of the second great re-quickening in late 2015 gave IS mechs the extra 10% energy range, and the BKs other excellent quirks including improved hit boxes, that led many clan players into near epileptic fits of rage what with the IS having a mech that could in theory stand up to a Timberwolf (other than the T-Bolt 5ss with its super duper mpl quirks of the time (RIP)).

Fast forward a year to 2016 and rescale and the the great nerffening (three times) of the BK (not to mention its increase in height) and then finally this year with the elimination of most weapon specific offensive quirks, and I am now at the point of wondering WTF is the function of this mech and why should I even consider taking one into a match?

I have 5 of them. All with very different builds. Yet NEVER does it ever enter my mind to take this mech over a Marauder, or even the Orion, or even a Grasshopper or Warhammer anymore. And in QP (group queue) I will take the Timberwolf (negative quirks and all) or a Night Gyr over the BK if a 75 is warranted.

The hardpoints are all waist to mid chest high (at best), the builds are all energy, the quirks are uninspired, all decent builds run fairly hot and all without much distinction over other energy boats. So I ask you, what is the point now of the BK in this day and age of mostly defensive quirks, and with a chassis that is distinctive only for the odd extra sensor range quirk...on an energy boat?

As it is the only reason I am ever inspired to take ANY of the BKs is because how sharp I think they look. Beyond looks though, I'd rather play any other 75 ton mech and damn near any 70 or 65 ton mech for that matter. Help me out here. Give me a reason not to shelve these things.

Uh...what? Black knights are one of the most common mechs in FP for a reason. It has high torso mounted hardpoints, shield arms, great hitboxes and massive quirks. The other 75 tonner options are the Marauder (easy to disarm by going for the RT, no shield arms, worse hitboxes, most variants force you to use ballistics which are not hitscan) and the Orion (can't run laser vomit, low slung weapon arms, bad hitboxes)

[Kanil]

Jun Watarase, on 25 September 2017 - 07:19 PM, said:

It has high torso mounted hardpoints

wut?


These are high torso mounts.


Not so much.

[Hit the Deck]

El Bandito, on 25 September 2017 - 06:56 PM, said:

....
I am personally waiting for our Lord and Savior, the FlashUrbie.

Release it with the Imp so the Urbie family can finally be reunited.

[Bombast]

Hit the Deck, on 25 September 2017 - 07:34 PM, said:

Release it with the Imp so the Urbie family can finally be reunited.

Seriously though, think about this for a moment - a 100 ton Assault mech with 360 torso twists. That's kind of terrifying.

[justcallme A S H]

Jun Watarase, on 25 September 2017 - 07:19 PM, said:

Uh...what? Black knights are one of the most common mechs in FP for a reason.

In 2015 you mean?

Black Knights have been a 2nd tier mech since mid 2016 and have barely see use in FP since then.

They have LOW torso mounts, crap hitboxes since rescale and near nonexistent quirks now... Need I go on?

Edited by justcallme A S H, 25 September 2017 - 07:45 PM.

[Jun Watarase]

Kanil, on 25 September 2017 - 07:26 PM, said:

wut?


These are high torso mounts.


Not so much.

They are high and very much usable compared to say, the weapon arms on a warhawk.

[Jun Watarase]

justcallme A S H, on 25 September 2017 - 07:44 PM, said:

In 2015 you mean?

Black Knights have been a 2nd tier mech since mid 2016 and have barely see use in FP since then.

They have LOW torso mounts, crap hitboxes since rescale and near nonexistent quirks now... Need I go on?

Wow, if thats your definition of "near nonexistent quirks" you really should try looking at clan mechs. IS players sure take their great hitboxes and shield arms for granted.

The black knight is most of the most common IS laser vomit mechs that I see, especially when used by IS units.

Edited by Jun Watarase, 25 September 2017 - 07:52 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Jun Watarase, on 25 September 2017 - 07:45 PM, said:

They are high and very much usable compared to say, the weapon arms on a warhawk.

You mean compared to like mechs:

TBR, EBJ, HBR.

Don't bring Clan Assaults into a discussion against IS heavies.

You are flat out wrong. End of story.

[GrimRiver]

BK's make good energy brawlers, treat it's hardpoints the same way as a Atlas or CTF.

It can't trade at the hill poke game for crap, but it rounds corners to alpha like a champ.

I like the 2xAMS version as I can support my team and still carry enough firepower to be a threat.

[justcallme A S H]

Jun Watarase, on 25 September 2017 - 07:46 PM, said:

Wow, if thats your definition of "near nonexistent quirks" you really should try looking at clan mechs. IS players sure take their great hitboxes and shield arms for granted.

The BLK MUST run IS XL to be competitive. So yes it does need quirks.

I mean of course let's totally ignore the quirks on your comparison mech, the WHK, making it one of the best energy based assaults in the game.

Stick to your T1 LRM boating against all those Black Knights everyone is not running in FP.

[Kanil]

Jun Watarase, on 25 September 2017 - 07:45 PM, said:

They are high and very much usable compared to say, the weapon arms on a warhawk.

Still a little confused, here.

[justcallme A S H]

We'll all be confused for a very long time as he ain't making any sense and there ain't no way to dig ones self outta this hole.

[MischiefSC]

Warhawk is one of the best energy mechs around. It's better than the BK in the same way the Cheetah is better than the 5V spider. Comparing them just makes people give you the "not sure if serious" look.

There are no real IS laservomit mechs that can compare with Clan laservomit save for erlls. Fortunately we have things like MWOWC that let us see how these sorts of mechs compare when you balance for player skill.

[Jun Watarase]

Kanil, on 25 September 2017 - 07:55 PM, said:

Still a little confused, here.

Try actually using it ingame.

I guess all the IS units i see using black knights in FP must be "doing it wrong" then. ROFL.

I think I'm starting to understand why some mechs with horrible hitboxes get no durability quirks while ones like the black knight with shield arms get massive ones.

Edited by Jun Watarase, 25 September 2017 - 08:14 PM.