94 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

Put those IS LPLs on the same shelf as your parachute pants and your car phone. 1 more damage and a fraction of a second shorter burn isnt worth 2 tons and less range. They're **** now. They had a great role for a while and it was awesome, however they were actually able to keep up with Clan laservomit at close range and so had to be nerfed.

Large Lasers and mediums/ermediums. Honestly, go mediums because with those low mounts you're rarely going to be able to leverage the extra 100m range. Save the heat, you're going to close and 57 pt burst on people in the open, then run into over. You'll be doing over 70 (I think a LFE 330? 340?) is what fits.

Just get an EBJ. 10 tons lighter, out performs it in every way.

Edited by MischiefSC, 26 September 2017 - 06:48 AM.

[Hobbles v]

Resize really killed the mech.

Sure the hardpoints were low. But they were tight and you could shoot things at your feet. Now its so tall it cant shoot down at all and the hardpoints are still low in relation to the top of the mech.

Only place i find it useful is level terrain for close range corner trading. Like emerald taiga or most of river city.

[Verilligo]

MischiefSC, on 26 September 2017 - 06:47 AM, said:

Put those IS LPLs on the same shelf as your parachute pants and your car phone. 1 more damage and a fraction of a second shorter burn isnt worth 2 tons and less range. They're **** now. They had a great role for a while and it was awesome, however they were actually able to keep up with Clan laservomit at close range and so had to be nerfed.

Large Lasers and mediums/ermediums. Honestly, go mediums because with those low mounts you're rarely going to be able to leverage the extra 100m range. Save the heat, you're going to close and 57 pt burst on people in the open, then run into over. You'll be doing over 70 (I think a LFE 330? 340?) is what fits.

Just get an EBJ. 10 tons lighter, out performs it in every way.

I thought the entire point behind IS laser vomit was leveraging the shorter duration to gain pinpoint damage? Which is why the Grasshopper is so strong, because it combines a bunch of high mounts with JJs and short duration beams?

[Bud Crue]

Verilligo, on 26 September 2017 - 07:13 AM, said:

I thought the entire point behind IS laser vomit was leveraging the shorter duration to gain pinpoint damage? Which is why the Grasshopper is so strong, because it combines a bunch of high mounts with JJs and short duration beams?

5P is/was strong due to high mounts and the quirks that made 5ERLL manageable/ideal in the variant. But even with the quirks it was never about "short duration beams"

The 5H took advantage of the LPL's shorter duration and I still run it with LPLs and mediums, but even that build is not "pinpoint" in its damage output. Mischief is also accounting for the 1 point nerf that they gave the LPL which makes it only incrementally more damaging than a standard large. Thus, the standard large at 2 tons less might be more advantageous on a lot of mechs depending on the hard points...such as some of the BKs; and especially when you grab all four beam duration nodes in the skills tree.

Edited by Bud Crue, 26 September 2017 - 07:28 AM.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

Hobbles v, on 26 September 2017 - 06:52 AM, said:

Only place i find it useful is level terrain for close range corner trading. Like emerald taiga or most of river city.

Exactly...it's a purely situational FW mech now....for certain maps. In QP you will likely draw a map where there are at least small hills you might want to poke....but won't be able to. To bad, so sad.

If you know the map and know you will not be hill poking (only corner poking with laser vomit or hard pushing with mpl vomit) it is tanky enough to work fine still. Is it the best at anything..probably not...viable to run situationally...sure

[ScrapIron Prime]

Jun Watarase, on 25 September 2017 - 07:46 PM, said:

The black knight is most of the most common IS laser vomit mechs that I see, especially when used by IS units.

Not to beat a discredited horse here, but I have to pile on. As one of those IS players in a rather active IS faction unit, I honestly cannot recall the last time a member of HHoD used a Black Knight in faction play.

For rushing duties, we use the Warhammer, as it has hardpoints close in and just below cockpit level, making it great for shooting over obstacles and firing in shoulder-to-shoulder situations. The Warhammer 6D is the laser vomit chassis of choice, and the black knight's arm shield ability is not that much better than the Warhammer's. Plus the Warhammer simply moves faster with the popular 300 and 325 rated engines, as well as having a 3 point advantage on the agility table, meaning it's a smaller target that torso twists faster.

So yeah... Black Knight LOOKS epic. I pre-ordered the mech pack immediately after watching way too much Pacific Rim. But I honestly never use them now.

[MischiefSC]

Bud Crue, on 26 September 2017 - 07:27 AM, said:

5P is/was strong due to high mounts and the quirks that made 5ERLL manageable/ideal in the variant. But even with the quirks it was never about "short duration beams"

The 5H took advantage of the LPL's shorter duration and I still run it with LPLs and mediums, but even that build is not "pinpoint" in its damage output. Mischief is also accounting for the 1 point nerf that they gave the LPL which makes it only incrementally more damaging than a standard large. Thus, the standard large at 2 tons less might be more advantageous on a lot of mechs depending on the hard points...such as some of the BKs; and especially when you grab all four beam duration nodes in the skills tree.

With nodes it's about a quarter of a second difference on burn time. With slower twist rates on mechs thats not to relevant - especially if you're using ermls, with which have a burn time lime the LLs anyway, you're not benefittinf from the short burn on the LPLs
.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Bud, this thread (along with your GHR-5J one) has inspired to me go back and replay my Grasshoppers and Black Knights

Well, after this event... I'll start with an 8x MPL BL-6B-KNT with an LFE 350 and 21 DHS

[MischiefSC]

Jay Leon Hart, on 26 September 2017 - 10:43 AM, said:

Bud, this thread (along with your GHR-5J one) has inspired to me go back and replay my Grasshoppers and Black Knights

Well, after this event... I'll start with an 8x MPL BL-6B-KNT with an LFE 350 and 21 DHS

It's a solid build. You really need to pick your engagements since you've got to stand in the open with your junk hanging out but that's a solid performer.

However the THD and WHR do that about as well but faster.

[Bud Crue]

Jay Leon Hart, on 26 September 2017 - 10:43 AM, said:

Bud, this thread (along with your GHR-5J one) has inspired to me go back and replay my Grasshoppers and Black Knights

Well, after this event... I'll start with an 8x MPL BL-6B-KNT with an LFE 350 and 21 DHS

The event is what got me playing them. After I did a few of the event weapon class sub-events, I decided I was not buying any more weapons that I don't play and returned to rebuilding and skilling out mechs I haven't yet gotten to since the skills tree and nutech. The 5J is my only Hopper I can't really make perform worth a crap, and the BKs all just feel so utterly uninteresting now no matter what I put on them...thus the threads. As to your build...I do 2 snubs and 6mpls and dropped the engine to a 325 its a bit toasty (5 Mpls is way more manageable but I am stubborn) but its a fairly nice brawler and I don't have to think about GH (and a BK with 2PPCs of any kind in the RA just looks great). Alas, the Wammer D or Tbolt does it better.

Edited by Bud Crue, 26 September 2017 - 11:02 AM.

[Yellonet]

It it wasn't for it's hardpoint locations it would be great.

[justcallme A S H]

Marquis De Lafayette, on 26 September 2017 - 08:06 AM, said:

Exactly...it's a purely situational FW mech now....for certain maps. In QP you will likely draw a map where there are at least small hills you might want to poke....but won't be able to. To bad, so sad.

If you know the map and know you will not be hill poking (only corner poking with laser vomit or hard pushing with mpl vomit) it is tanky enough to work fine still. Is it the best at anything..probably not...viable to run situationally...sure

Well look at that. As predicted we are 3 pages on and people still saying Jun is wrong. I am so shocked by this turn of events I don't know what to do.

And yep... The only maps it is really good for a Taiga, River, Crimson where there is mostly flat ground so the low mounts don't pose a real issue. It can also work on Frozen if it's skirmish. You can use on Def on Boreal as well given the entire team is presenting targets, but once enemy in the gates it becomes problematic...

But Yeah, overall it is very situational.

[A Shoddy Rental Mech]

PGI hit the Black Knight with The Nerf Bat on 3 separate occasions.

The Nerf Bat, on 19 October 2016 - 11:57 PM, said:

The Feb 20 patch was when the the Nerf Hammer hit.

PATCH NOTES - 1.4.53 - 16-FEB-2016
https://mwomercs.com...-1453-16feb2016

April 2016
Black Knight gets whacked
http://mwomercs.com/...rk%20Values.pdf

June 2016
Black Knight gets whacked again
http://static.mwomer...006-21-2016.pdf

Resize I.S. mechs get big

It is nowhere near what it once was, or what i once paid for.

[Bud Crue]

The Nerf Bat, on 26 September 2017 - 11:21 PM, said:

PGI hit the Black Knight with The Nerf Bat on 3 separate occasions.



It is nowhere near what it once was, or what i once paid for.

I would argue that the Skills Tree nerf and the removal of the weapon specific quirks on two of the variants (the PPC and ERPPC quirks) was a fourth occasion.

[Lily from animove]

The Nerf Bat, on 26 September 2017 - 11:21 PM, said:

PGI hit the Black Knight with The Nerf Bat on 3 separate occasions.



It is nowhere near what it once was, or what i once paid for.

if you pay for mechs expected performance then you are doing it wrong.

[Nightbird]

You're paying for a few months of enjoyment of the mechs before they're nerfed when released for cbills. Don't set your expectations higher than that and you're golden. Don't pre-order unless you know it's a mech you'll be happy with, the bonus stuff aren't worth it if the mech will collect dust. Basically only buy on release day based on stats/quirks/possible loadouts.

Edited by NlGHTBlRD, 27 September 2017 - 06:05 AM.

[Mechrophilia]

Looking at it next to that warhawk really shows how massive it is. They look like they're the same weight standing side by side like that. It needs to be shrunk a little for sure.

[mogs01gt]

LMAO @ BKs having high mounts!

Edited by mogs01gt, 27 September 2017 - 07:12 AM.

[Major Tomm]

The Black Knight has several cross-tech variants and the BL-6-RR cross-tech variant is available in 3057, although not in MWO.

Edited by Major Tomm, 27 September 2017 - 07:46 AM.

[The Lobsters]

Mobility/Tank is the only real advantage the BLK can leverage better than the Hopper and the 6D, which are both better suited to the Mobility/Firepower archetype. Too bad for the BLK that the Mobility/Firepower is the easier meta to milk. I'm very fond of the Black Knights, but my 6D stats are the most consistently good, and It's one of the easiest mechs for me to do well in. I even stopped playing it because I was bored of doing so well in it.

To be fair, the Crab and the Wolfhound also fit into the Mobility/Tank archetype, so I suppose the clues are already there.