94 replies to this topic

[Jackal Noble]

Hey Bud, can you change the title to "Black Knight - WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR....

[Brain Cancer]

Quote

TLDR: what in the holy hell is the role/function/niche of the Black Knight in this era of the game? What can it do that another mech can't do better?

It, like most older designs has served it's primary purpose. Getting people to spend on what was the newest shiny before the inevitable nerfcycle of MC -> CBill sale status happens.

That's the MWO Mechpack lifecycle.

[Bud Crue]

JackalBeast, on 27 September 2017 - 11:01 AM, said:

Hey Bud, can you change the title to "Black Knight - WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR....

Done.

- Lol -

[Bud Crue]

Brain Cancer, on 27 September 2017 - 11:32 AM, said:

It, like most older designs has served it's primary purpose. Getting people to spend on what was the newest shiny before the inevitable nerfcycle of MC -> CBill sale status happens.

That's the MWO Mechpack lifecycle.

Yeah, but there are lots of old mechs that still play with some pizazz if not uniqueness, even with others in their weight class with similar builds and load outs. I mean a missile mech like the Griffins, play and feel totally distinct from a Shadow Hawk or a Hunchback J. I still have all of em and still play all of em. PGI has mucked with them all and yet still they can be interesting. Same with the cousins Jaggers and Riflemen. Similar in style and role, yet distinct. There are lost of old mechs that I prefer to the newest shiny, and I think with a little effort, PGI could give the BKs back some of there more individual quirks and they too would be back to having a role that isn't limited to "the same laser spam as a Warhammer, Grasshopper, Thunderbolt, but on a bigger target with worse hard point location"

Edited by Bud Crue, 27 September 2017 - 11:43 AM.

[Jackal Noble]

Bud Crue, on 27 September 2017 - 11:35 AM, said:

Done.

- Lol -

Hahaha awesome man! That was what I kept thinking when I saw your thread.

In regards to the BK, it is kinda odd to see it waylaid the way it is. I remember absolutely dreading having to face 'em about a year plus ago?. I picked up one of the variants around or near the time that it got stunted (and then gigantored with the re-scale) and took it out a couple of times using standard IS laser vomit thoroughfare - high engine/med pulses, XL large pulses and mediums etc. and remember thinking then after a few trials with it that it wasn't even close to as OP as I had imagined (surprise). Might have to dust of the one that I do have, and take it out to see how the ST has treated it. From the looks of it, not good at all.

Vaguely remember some FRR Storm Troopers in FW, just wasting everybody with their 12 man BKs. Them were the days. Sucked to be on the receiving end, but was a sight to see.

Edited by JackalBeast, 27 September 2017 - 12:16 PM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

JackalBeast, on 27 September 2017 - 12:15 PM, said:

Vaguely remember some FRR Storm Troopers in FW, just wasting everybody with their 12 man BKs. Them were the days. Sucked to be on the receiving end, but was a sight to see.

Yeah, 3x Quickdraw + a Grasshopper or a Black Knight. That was the reason I bought my Quickdraws, but I never got them Mastered in time to join those drops before the Quickdraws were de-quirked

[Jay Leon Hart]

MischiefSC, on 26 September 2017 - 10:59 AM, said:

However the THD and WHR do that about as well but faster.

Bud Crue, on 26 September 2017 - 11:01 AM, said:

Alas, the Wammer D or Tbolt does it better.

Yeah, I do love my WHM-6D. My Thunderbolts were the first 'mechs I bought specifically for FP - can't recall which event was running, but I bought all the C-Bill variants and a new XL for each of them. It was the first time I copied a build without tweaking it (the Quickdraws above being the second).

Hm, I should probably add my Thunderbolts to "chassis I need to revisit"

[ScrapIron Prime]

Look, if you want people to use the Black Knight, there's just one thing you have to do.



Then people could shoot over intervening terrain and the mech would be useful for something beyond short range.

(Apologies to Kanil for borrowing the image he posted...)

Edited by ScrapIron Prime, 27 September 2017 - 12:26 PM.

[visionGT4]

The legacy of the BLK is the legacy of post clam invasion MWO. An IS mech that approached parity with easy mode mechs (minus the whole clanXL & 2slot DHS thing), the outrage from the clam aligned players was off the scale (like full r3t4rd off the scale).

Another shining example of how the easy mode types have ruined the game

[Jackal Noble]

ScrapIron Prime, on 27 September 2017 - 12:24 PM, said:

Look, if you want people to use the Black Knight, there's just one thing you have to do.



Then people could shoot over intervening terrain and the mech would be useful for something beyond short range.

(Apologies to Kanil for borrowing the image he posted...)

Ummm is that the orientation of the lasers? Like one is all half cockeyed and the other is semi-cockeyed?
I mean in mech aesthetics I don't think everything should be a 90° and straight ridgid lines, but wtf is that?

Edited by JackalBeast, 27 September 2017 - 12:47 PM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

JackalBeast, on 27 September 2017 - 12:44 PM, said:

Ummm is that the orientation of the lasers? Like one is all half cockeyed and the other is semi-cockeyed?
I mean in mech aesthetics I don't think everything should be a 90° and straight ridgid lines, but wtf is that?

Yep, that's how Alex modeled them, oriented to the bottom of the torso sections. I guess he was tired of 90 degree angles that week.

[Nightbird]

The area with proposed mounts in the image is all CT, which gives the BK it's tankiness even with XL engine. If you make this a narrow CT mech, it will be much worse. It will lose it's only strength, side poking,

That been said, there should be some bonus CT armor on all variants for that legendary giant CT plate. Some bonus for the right arm would the fair as well.

Edited by NlGHTBlRD, 27 September 2017 - 01:07 PM.

[Athom83]

If it was thicker front to back in the torso to reduce its height by a significant amount, then it probably wouldn't be so bad.

Honestly, if it looked like this I'd buy it no matter how crap it was;

[Mighty Wings]

Not gonna lie forgot how bad this mech is hardpoint wise. I played this the other day and did well but it was on river city.

Just played a match on the mining collective, could not shoot anything above me and mech is super tall and can be shot from any angle..once I moved to the center could not shoot anything below me haha it was actually pretty hilarious. Maybe I should just try peeking with the one er med in my head .

[MischiefSC]

Mighty Wings, on 27 September 2017 - 01:58 PM, said:

Not gonna lie forgot how bad this mech is hardpoint wise. I played this the other day and did well but it was on river city.

Just played a match on the mining collective, could not shoot anything above me and mech is super tall and can be shot from any angle..once I moved to the center could not shoot anything below me haha it was actually pretty hilarious. Maybe I should just try peeking with the one er med in my head .

The new meta - 1 head mounted erml. All the STD heatsinks. Mid size STD engine.

ZOMBIE FOR DAYS.

[Mighty Wings]

I'll change my build to a MPL for max dps

[MischiefSC]

I mocked one uo. Not hard to get 400% cooling efficiency!

IS head laser zombie OP!

[Bud Crue]

Athom83, on 27 September 2017 - 01:40 PM, said:

If it was thicker front to back in the torso to reduce its height by a significant amount, then it probably wouldn't be so bad.

Honestly, if it looked like this I'd buy it no matter how crap it was;

While that is far more utilitarian in looks (I like it) than the existing model, the looks were never the problem for me (I like the exisitng modeling just fine...in fact I thin it may be one of the best looking mechs in the game).



No, to me the problem is one of redundancy in variants, which is exasperated by a lack of distinctive quirks and and the frankly crap hard point heights. We all know they are not going to change the hard point heights or the number; but they can give the damn things some quirk character. I realize that Chris Lowery is opposed to weapon specific quirks in general (mechs should not be a puzzle, and all that), but in the case of the BK (and the other all/mostly energy Resistance mechs and their variants) they NEED some weapon specific quirks to not only give specific distinction over their chassis mates, but also to distinguish over mechs (mostly superior mechs) of other chassis that also are limited by all (mostly) energy load outs with better hard points or other performance characteristics.

Aesthetic distinctiveness is great, but that just isn't enough to warrant taking mediocrity over something ugly but superior in performance and PGI ought to do something about it.

Edited by Bud Crue, 27 September 2017 - 02:39 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

JackalBeast, on 27 September 2017 - 11:01 AM, said:

Hey Bud, can you change the title to "Black Knight - WHAT IS IT GOOD FOR....

lol.


Oh and BTW guys - upto 4 pages now of people telling Jun he is wrong.
I'd love to say I'm surprised.

[Bud Crue]

justcallme A S H, on 27 September 2017 - 02:37 PM, said:

lol.


Oh and BTW guys - upto 4 pages now of people telling Jun he is wrong.
I'd love to say I'm surprised.

Not just Jun.

But PGI too. I haven't been around as long as many, but I remember 2015 after the second requirckening when the BK was OP, and I remember that brief period just prior to rescale when they had the meta buld BK holding up against a Timber. Then I rememebr how they fu**ed it up after rescale, again, and then again, and then again and then again, until what we have now is a 75 ton example of boring melancholy personified. Jun can't fix...well, believing what he believes...but PGI can and should fix the BK.