29 replies to this topic

[Relishcakes]

So, I was playing and my team didnt get stomped..but it wasnt a close match. 12-4. I had 3 kills, 1KMDD, and 1 assist. I had my hand in all the pies on my side. I died doing a paltry 216 damage.
However, when all was said and done. I scored a negative PSR. I spoke to one person in clan chat about this..cause i wanted to vent a little and they said it was related to my damage. Is damage weighed so heavily that kills mean nothing if you arent scoring 500+ damage? Effective damage means nothing essentially?
Have they not noticed that THIS is why LRMageddon happened?

[Bombast]

Yes. Damage is weighed that heavily.

Nothing to get bent out of shape about, though. You'll get to T1 just fine. Everyone who doesn't sleep through half their play time does.

[Vellron2005]

The game currently rewards three things the most:

1) Damage - yes, little damage means little cbills.

2) Teamwork - staying with your lance, shooting what your teammates shoot, and popping UAV's to light enemies up, will increase your cbills and match scores.

3) AMS missiles destroyed - these will rack up nice scores and cbills.

Basically, if you one-shot kill cored opponents while far from your teammates, you will not be very much rewarded. Nor will you do good if you Leroy Jenkins and take your light to harass that one single assault on the other side of the map or chase a single light.

Sadly, capping resource points, bringing back batteries, capping the enemy base.. all of this will bring you very little cbills.

"Efficiency" means very little in this game, simply because the game is not objective-oriented.

It is actually quite easy to spot a good, well-coordinated team by their damage numbers.. they will all have a few hundred damage, without anyone spiking to the low or high ends of the spectrum.

If you have 1000+ damage in a QP game, somebody else dropped the ball, and you carried them. And yes, having 1K+ damage will increase your winnings dramatically.

Taking down the entire enemy base on incursion yourself - won't.

[Shifty McSwift]

It also doesn't take into account that eventually there has to be a damage trade off, and sometimes you will be the target called for focus first, you might live getting away while tanking, or get some good shots off, or you might just die in less than a second to coordinated fire during a push. And sometimes targets get swarmed or backstabbed, barely getting an opportunity for a single volley. **** happens. Judging someone based on one games score or setting a threshold for "acceptable damage scores" that if a player ever falls below you downrate him, breeds some crappy attitudes toward the teamwork aspects of the game.

[adamts01]

I can't say I agree. I've scored around the 1k mark with a few kills during a loss and made around 120k or so. Assists seem to be worth way more than damage, and a single "savoir kill" is 50k+. It seems that winning is the most important thing for payout and PSR, and I have to agree with that. Damage and kills don't mean much if you let your team down in other areas. Someone can farm those kills from the back and not share their assault's armor, and lose because of that.

OP: Don't pay any attention to PSR, gameplay actually gets worse in many ways as you get closer to the top. Cherish your time with optimistic players willing to work together.

[El Bandito]

Relishcakes, on 27 September 2017 - 11:05 PM, said:

So, I was playing and my team didnt get stomped..but it wasnt a close match. 12-4. I had 3 kills, 1KMDD, and 1 assist. I had my hand in all the pies on my side. I died doing a paltry 216 damage.
However, when all was said and done. I scored a negative PSR. I spoke to one person in clan chat about this..cause i wanted to vent a little and they said it was related to my damage. Is damage weighed so heavily that kills mean nothing if you arent scoring 500+ damage? Effective damage means nothing essentially?

Winning contributes the most to PSR. So help your team to win.

[UnofficialOperator]

How is 216 damage with 3 kills effective? That's like 7 alpha strikes. Seems more like last touching on red cores, tbh.

PS: Effective would be like accuracy % + damage per second in match

Edited by UnofficialOperator, 28 September 2017 - 01:23 AM.

[arcana75]

Relishcakes, on 27 September 2017 - 11:05 PM, said:

So, I was playing and my team didnt get stomped..but it wasnt a close match. 12-4. I had 3 kills, 1KMDD, and 1 assist. I had my hand in all the pies on my side. I died doing a paltry 216 damage.
However, when all was said and done. I scored a negative PSR. I spoke to one person in clan chat about this..cause i wanted to vent a little and they said it was related to my damage. Is damage weighed so heavily that kills mean nothing if you arent scoring 500+ damage? Effective damage means nothing essentially?
Have they not noticed that THIS is why LRMageddon happened?

3 kills and 1 KMDD, but only 216 damage. This means:

2 of those kills are last-hits.
1 kill was all you, if that KMDD also came with a Solo Kill.
1 assist but you just scratched him, or this could have been the KMDD..

Also, 12-4, means it was pretty much a roll. How long did the match last? If it was over quickly, you didn't have the time to pile on the points from other things like Protection Proximity, Protected X, more Assists, Saviour kills, Brawling, Scouting, Hit and Run, Flanking, etc etc etc.

Also, for the PSR, a win is more important. You could do very badly and win and still get a + or even = for PSR, but do ok or well and lose and get a - or =.

[Tarl Cabot]

What was your match score? The first graph has no numbers when PGI changed from Elo to PSR for MM.



This second graph has the numbers listed.


In the end though, due to the positive push almost everyone will eventually be Tier 1 with okay play and lots of playtime. I am max T1 for awhile and I definitely do not consider myself Tier 1 material. When PGI changed from Elo to PSR I was seeded as a Tier 3.7ish... haha

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 28 September 2017 - 03:21 AM.

[arcana75]

Tarl Cabot, on 28 September 2017 - 03:18 AM, said:

What was your match score? The first graph has no numbers when PGI changed from Elo to PSR for MM.



This second graph has the numbers listed.


In the end though, due to the positive push almost everyone will eventually be Tier 1 with okay play and lots of playtime. I am max T1 for awhile and I definitely do not consider myself Tier 1 material. When PGI changed from Elo to PSR I was seeded as a Tier 3.7ish... haha

Most informative. Question: Does seeding still happen today, or was it only during that time the system changed from Elo to PSR? And if yes, how does seeding work mechanically?

And another question: these rises and drops aren't contextualised. Exactly what are large or small values?

Edited by arcana75, 28 September 2017 - 04:40 AM.

[Relishcakes]

UnofficialOperator, on 28 September 2017 - 01:20 AM, said:

How is 216 damage with 3 kills effective? That's like 7 alpha strikes. Seems more like last touching on red cores, tbh.

PS: Effective would be like accuracy % + damage per second in match

In a light, thats definitely not 7 alpha strikes..

arcana75, on 28 September 2017 - 02:27 AM, said:

3 kills and 1 KMDD, but only 216 damage. This means:

2 of those kills are last-hits.
1 kill was all you, if that KMDD also came with a Solo Kill.
1 assist but you just scratched him, or this could have been the KMDD..

Also, 12-4, means it was pretty much a roll. How long did the match last? If it was over quickly, you didn't have the time to pile on the points from other things like Protection Proximity, Protected X, more Assists, Saviour kills, Brawling, Scouting, Hit and Run, Flanking, etc etc etc.

Also, for the PSR, a win is more important. You could do very badly and win and still get a + or even = for PSR, but do ok or well and lose and get a - or =.

The match was MAYBE 5 minutes from drop to end.

My main gripe with the whole thing was that i felt like it was a decent game for me(im not a great player) and the -PSR felt a bit like a slap to the face. I am aware the system doesnt make a ton of sense but still.

[UnofficialOperator]

Relishcakes, on 28 September 2017 - 06:45 AM, said:

In a light, thats definitely not 7 alpha strikes..

Yes it is. Ach can go 42 per alpha.

[Cloves]

First of all, welcome!

Let me guess, you where in a light?

One of my pet peves is the class balance in the game.

There is a reason you see 4-5 assaults and 4-5 heavies in a match these days, they can do more damage with less effort than the lighter classes. This directly translates to more Cbills and a higher PSR.

It's hard to put it in personal perspective, but you need to focus on your W/L ratio in order to see how well you are doing. Are you helping win matches? I would focus on personal improvement no matter what the PSR says. I know it's demoralizing to be in lower tiers, but it's an opportunity. The easiest way I can think of to affect games in lighter mechs is to use your microphone, let folks know what is where. Secondly, lights are great at battlefield management, if you can squirrel half the enemy team right before a push, you can greatly contribute to a win, and wins cause PSR gain.

Aggressive play wins matches, but the lighter mechs are often less forgiving when it comes to taking hits, and that balance is on a knife's edge. I find that my W/L ratio is highest when I get more assists with those lighter mechs. Damage may be low, but you can get paid and move up your PSR faster than if you are trying to get those kills for yourself.

Best of luck, and most of all have fun!

[Vxheous]

Relishcakes, on 28 September 2017 - 06:45 AM, said:

In a light, thats definitely not 7 alpha strikes..

The match was MAYBE 5 minutes from drop to end.

My main gripe with the whole thing was that i felt like it was a decent game for me(im not a great player) and the -PSR felt a bit like a slap to the face. I am aware the system doesnt make a ton of sense but still.

Most lights do 30-36 alpha, so yeah, 7 alphas from a light.

Edited by Vxheous, 28 September 2017 - 03:30 PM.

[Tarl Cabot]

arcana75, on 28 September 2017 - 04:39 AM, said:

Most informative. Question: Does seeding still happen today, or was it only during that time the system changed from Elo to PSR? And if yes, how does seeding work mechanically?

And another question: these rises and drops aren't contextualised. Exactly what are large or small values?

Nope, the only time the player based was seeded was when Elo was switched to PSR based on info gathered from the previous 7ish months prior. For those who had no games but came back afterwards were started initially as Tier 4, then that was changed a short time later to Tier 5.

The PSR should be reset each quarter using the previous quarter's stats using the frequency distribution, so that the reseeding values could change from one quarter to another, or even allow PGI to adjust the seeding scale for each tier. Also the PSR forward push to Tier 1 should to be soften up, to not be so.. drastic.

[Cloves]

They don't tell us the magnitude, and it does not appear to be consistent to me (I may have observation bias as I just changed tiers a bit ago).

[arcana75]

Tarl Cabot, on 28 September 2017 - 03:30 PM, said:

Nope, the only time the player based was seeded was when Elo was switched to PSR based on info gathered from the previous 7ish months prior. For those who had no games but came back afterwards were started initially as Tier 4, then that was changed a short time later to Tier 5.

I see. So without seeding anymore, every new player today starts out at Tier 5? Due to the way the PSR incrementally adds in such small amounts, is it possible for a new player to go from Tier 5 to Tier THREE in fewer than 10 matches, if there is no seeding mechanic present?

Relishcakes, on 28 September 2017 - 06:45 AM, said:

In a light, thats definitely not 7 alpha strikes..

The match was MAYBE 5 minutes from drop to end.

My main gripe with the whole thing was that i felt like it was a decent game for me(im not a great player) and the -PSR felt a bit like a slap to the face. I am aware the system doesnt make a ton of sense but still.

Yeah a light can pack a punch, some lights can do 40 damage alphas eg 4xHeavy Medium Lasers. If you manage a full close ranged burn on every enemy mech in the game (as a light it's possible to just hit and run alot and get 12 assists), that's 480 damage. But that's moot cuz if you don't score very high and lose, it's a PSR minus. And if your team gets wiped out early, there's not enough time to rack up bonuses.

But I won't worry if I were you. Depends on your playstyle, but lights have the speed to get out of bad situations quickly. Learn to pick your fights, go after slower bigger targets, check that the enemy doesn't have weapons like stream SRMs, then run to their backs, pop an alpha and run away. Posting great scores in a light mech is easier than other mech classes, for me at least. Pair your mains with some machine-guns and watch your score and rewards spike upwards.

To post 3 real kills (ie Solo Kill + KMDD), you would be getting 400-600 damage values depending on how accurate your aim is.

[justcallme A S H]

Relishcakes, on 27 September 2017 - 11:05 PM, said:

So, I was playing and my team didnt get stomped..but it wasnt a close match. 12-4. I had 3 kills, 1KMDD, and 1 assist. I had my hand in all the pies on my side. I died doing a paltry 216 damage.
However, when all was said and done. I scored a negative PSR. I spoke to one person in clan chat about this..cause i wanted to vent a little and they said it was related to my damage. Is damage weighed so heavily that kills mean nothing if you arent scoring 500+ damage? Effective damage means nothing essentially?
Have they not noticed that THIS is why LRMageddon happened?

Absolutely you should have scored negative as that is an incredibly poor effort.

Yes damage is a factor but also component destruction, killing mechs. Even spotting targets, assets all count.

If you contribute very little, and it sounds like you did, expect negative.

[Relishcakes]

Vxheous, on 28 September 2017 - 03:29 PM, said:

Most lights do 30-36 alpha, so yeah, 7 alphas from a light.

Thought about it..my right arm on my cougar does like 28 per shot..so..i could easily hit over 40.

justcallme A S H, on 28 September 2017 - 09:14 PM, said:

Absolutely you should have scored negative as that is an incredibly poor effort.

Yes damage is a factor but also component destruction, killing mechs. Even spotting targets, assets all count.

If you contribute very little, and it sounds like you did, expect negative.

Like i said earlier. I felt that was a good game for me given the circumstance.

[Kiiyor]

The issue here isn't PSR shenanigans, IMHO - it's the preoccupation people have with Kills. Kills are pretty close to an irrelevant stat as far as overall performance goes, yet for some reason kills and KDR are the shining metric that everyone measures their skill against.

Kill Most Damage Dealt and Solo Kills are far more solid metrics, yet aside from your own results screen, you never see them. I wish they were measured on your stats page, and in the EOM summary screen.

Without those, though, I feel as though match score is probably the best way to grade your performance, yet even that fails to take into account the impact some players have on a match. A squirrel that tangles up 5 enemies will likely be too defensive to score big numbers, yet they probably secured the win for their team. Likewise, the brave Atlas pilot that wades headlong into the thick of a fight probably isn't going to survive long enough to dish out extreme damage, yet the return fire they soak probably allowed their team to carry the day. Or, the MadCatMKII player, with his terrifying and mighty splat build, cornered with little team support and unable to move out of cover, yet able to hold back several enemy mechs through intimidation and fear.

I guess what i'm trying to say is, some of the most important contributions are hard to measure. Don't put all your faith in kills as a way to guage your performance, and try not to cheapen your own performance by relying only on your match score to measure your contribution.