24 replies to this topic

[Gorgo7]

Please reduce the cool-down of the Heavy PPC to 4 Sec so that it is in line with ALL the other PPC's. This enormous cool-down Nerf is punitive and makes the weapon under perform.
Introducing new tech is supposed to improve upon the old tech or at the very least, break even with it.
How happy I was to re-imagine a large portion of my IS stable. With the new L engine I could dispense with my std engine and pick up 3 or 5 tons and use it to swap out a PPC with a Heavy PPC.

Not anymore!

Now, under the guise of "the Clan's getting screwed! we need to help them!" a very large chunk of IS mechs are having an underutilized new weapon system effectively removed from their consideration.

Assaults with low engine caps (Atlas, Awesome, Mauler, Stalkers, King Crab) who usually run maxed or close to max STD engines now can switch to L engines and get better AC's, heavier or lighter Gauss. Got a Mech that's mostly energy? Want heavy PPC's? Forget it. No one is running them since the nerf.
Got a med mech with a low engine cap? YAY! Switch out that Std engine for an LT and grab a Heavy PPC for that lone energy hard point...wait a minute...5 sec to cool down...F*** that!
When introduced they went on my Awesome 8Q and made a nice difference. They were certainly not OP but they were a better option. They were also useful on 5th tier Mediums like Vindicators and Hunchbacks...not anymore, cooldown is too damn slow.

Please move the cooldown back in line with the other PPC's.

Edited by Gorgo7, 30 September 2017 - 07:32 AM.

[Bombast]

Has the nerf really affected usage? Heavies weren't used that much before the nerf, and I haven't seen a drop in usage afterwards that wasn't related to the ballistic event.

Personally, I can barely tell the difference on my Marauder. Sure, it does fire slower, but the damn things are a furnace anyway. Probably shouldn't have been firing that often anyway.

[Daurock]

I guess its the developers saying once again that IS can't have nice things. I too would like to see the Heavy go back to 4, as I often would step out to take 2 or 3 volleys before cooling down. Now I can do 4 before being forced to step back, but it seems to take forever compared to what it used to. Guess they want us to move over to lasers, like all the cool kids are doing.

[MechaBattler]

I was using dual HPPCs on my Uziel because poptart is the only thing it's especially good at it. And to mount two of those things you had to go down a lot in engine and extra equipment. I suppose for that purpose cooldown won't hurt it too much.

Maybe they were concerned about it syncing up too well with other weapons.

Edited by MechaBattler, 28 September 2017 - 08:15 AM.

[Rovertoo]

Like sure its technically a nerf but they are so hot I feel most people using them were waiting longer than the current cooldown anyways. For consistancy's sake Id support all PPCs having the same cooldown but balance wise I feel its kind of a non-issue for the heavy PPC. I know my heavy PPC maurader didnt even notice the change.

[Daurock]

To me, it's just goofy that they did it in the first place. Not that it's a huge, overwhelming nerf here, but the change still baffles me.

Were people REALLY being that dangerous when boating two of them, and unloading that second shot at second 4?

[Gorgo7]

Syncing with other weapons? Like what? Other PPCs? The problem seems to be that you can fire two(!) without ghost heat. Jump sniping with a pair is one thing but frankly cool down is not an issue with jump sniping. It's a very specialized role that often spends more than 5 sec in the air and undercover before shooting again.
My old build ran 2x2 PPC's (20 - 20 Dam) the new one ran 3 Heavy PPC (30 - 15 Dam) heat and weight were slightly higher but commensurate with damage. Range remained the same. Now I don't run heavy PPC's.
As for the argument that you didn't see very many PPC's in the old days so why worry about them? I would reply get rid of them altogther if that how the player base feels...or... allow them to return to the 4 sec cooldown since it doesn't matter anyway.

[MechaBattler]

I do find myself asking, why PGI? It didn't seem anymore dominant than any of the other weapons. Other than Clan players complaining early on. But even that fell away.

Edited by MechaBattler, 28 September 2017 - 08:47 AM.

[MechWarrior5152251]

Cooldown is not a critical limitation on energy weapons. Heat is, so this will have almost zero practical effect.

[Trissila]

Bombast, on 28 September 2017 - 08:05 AM, said:

Has the nerf really affected usage? Heavies weren't used that much before the nerf, and I haven't seen a drop in usage afterwards that wasn't related to the ballistic event.

Personally, I can barely tell the difference on my Marauder. Sure, it does fire slower, but the damn things are a furnace anyway. Probably shouldn't have been firing that often anyway.

I was gonna say. PPCs are an inferno as it is, and firing them on cooldown is usually a very, very bad idea. I can't imagine wanting to fire heavy PPCs every 4 seconds.

That was one of my (several) pain points with the MAD-3R. Those PPCs are a nice spike addition to your UAC/5 damage, but you can only fire the stupid things once, really. A second shot causes you to ride the heat line with just the autocannons and hope that the other team doesn't have a Firestarter or something waiting to finish broiling you.

Extra cooldown or no, I just can't see ever using a Heavy PPC instead of an ER PPC. If you're going to swallow all that extra heat, you'd be better served extending your range AND getting rid of your deadzone instead of squeezing out a few extra points of damage.

[Daurock]

Trissila, on 28 September 2017 - 11:07 AM, said:

I was gonna say. PPCs are an inferno as it is, and firing them on cooldown is usually a very, very bad idea. I can't imagine wanting to fire heavy PPCs every 4 seconds.

That was one of my (several) pain points with the MAD-3R. Those PPCs are a nice spike addition to your UAC/5 damage, but you can only fire the stupid things once, really. A second shot causes you to ride the heat line with just the autocannons and hope that the other team doesn't have a Firestarter or something waiting to finish broiling you.

Extra cooldown or no, I just can't see ever using a Heavy PPC instead of an ER PPC. If you're going to swallow all that extra heat, you'd be better served extending your range AND getting rid of your deadzone instead of squeezing out a few extra points of damage.

My Warhammer could fire 2 of them on cooldown for roughly 2 to 4 volleys, depending on map, prior to this change. (If memory serves, it uses 16 DHS to do so, which is far from a lot of dhs.) While not exactly enough for a protracted long range engagement, it was good enough that I didn't feel bad if I needed to shoot a few times at a mech trying to close distance, move between cover, etc. I can now usually get an extra volley in before overheat when compared to before, but I really liked being able to pop off that second volley at a mech moving between cover. That's been significantly altered now. Additionally, you sometimes really needed to get that second shot in between a pair of laser volleys, which isn't as easy to do anymore. (Generally clan Lasers have a cycle time of about 5 seconds, when compared to the 4 of the rest of the PPC family)

I've never cared much for ERPPCs, mostly because I've also generally carried a set of far more heat efficient weaponry (Usually some small pulse, MGs, or a few medium lasers) around for close in work. I find carrying them outweighs whatever boost I would get from a few extra heatsinks I would get to use with the ER's.

[panzer1b]

Personally i dont even see this as a nerf, more like an insignificant alteration. With the possible exception of 1 HPPC light mechs, there is no mech that has any point spamming HPPCs every 4 seconds since you are going to cook yourself after 2-3 shots. Before the nerf, 90% of HPPC users were either poptarting or making a quick shot by poking out of cover, now, its the same thing, and a 1s cooldown increase is absolutely meaningless on a weapon that is fired once, maybee twice at most if the enemy isnt paying attention) before the mech hides behind cover or relocates to a new spot.

Really the most likely reason for this nerf is the fact that a HPPC and a LPPC was 1 ton less then 2 regular PPCs rendering the regular PPCs pointless. Now, if you want to get 20 PPFLD with good sync, you need to loose 1 heatsink to do it. Aside from that ONE reason, i dont see any good/bad thing in the cooldown nerf, it doesnt affect 90% of situations where people use dual HPPCs, and it doesnt have much of a effect on single mounts either since you arent going to sit there and try to outDPS the guy in front of you with any PPC.

Ofc there is a good chance i just dont appreciate PPCs in the game (very few mechs/builds i even touch any sort of PPC regardless of tech base), since i cant seem to justify them over lasers. PPFLD is overrated anyways, when most heavys and assaults eat 90% of my 1.2s laser burn into 1 component after the engine desyn and agility nerfs rendered the whole concept of twisting damage all over alot harder to pull off unless you anticipate the beam before it hits you. HPPCs are 20t and provide 30 damage, 6 ERMLs provide the same 30 damage, but only weigh 6 tons AND require a good deal less heat to do it. With that big a tonnage disparity, it really is hard to choose PPCs over lasers unless the mech is either quirked for PPCs, or has like 2-3 energy hardpoints and alot of tonnage.

Edited by panzer1b, 28 September 2017 - 11:52 AM.

[FupDup]

You can't fire it every time it's reloaded anyways because of heat being the ultimate constraint.

[Gorgo7]

Well, I was wondering when the Clanners would pop-up to tell the IS that they want to help by increasing the cool down time.

I could sport three Heavies and run through the set 4 times before overheating in an Awesome.

UNNERF the Heavy PPC even the Clan think they are inoffensive...hell reduce the heat they generate! Even the Clan think they are too hot!

[FupDup]

Gorgo7, on 28 September 2017 - 12:05 PM, said:

Well, I was wondering when the Clanners would pop-up to tell the IS that they want to help by increasing the cool down time.

I could sport three Heavies and run through the set 4 times before overheating in an Awesome.

UNNERF the Heavy PPC even the Clan think they are inoffensive...hell reduce the heat they generate! Even the Clan think they are too hot!

Don't make this about factions, most people aren't roleplayers.

[Holy Jackson]

I blame myself and babycakes for making an awesome 8q build with 2hppc +5mls that would absolutely wreck due to the quirks. we probably skewed the stats for the weapon. Also that was the first viable awesome build in a long time.

General Rule: if the weapon can make an awesome not suck, you have to nerf the weapon.

[Snazzy Dragon]

Heavy PPC cooldown doesn't matter unless it gets nerfed again. They're so hot you won't be firing as fast as you possibly can anyways

[Lykaon]

Bombast, on 28 September 2017 - 08:05 AM, said:

Has the nerf really affected usage? Heavies weren't used that much before the nerf, and I haven't seen a drop in usage afterwards that wasn't related to the ballistic event.

Personally, I can barely tell the difference on my Marauder. Sure, it does fire slower, but the damn things are a furnace anyway. Probably shouldn't have been firing that often anyway.

This was my take on it. The removed temptation probably translated to less over ride damage or time spent powered down.

You simply can not spam fire more than one PPC for any length of time before having to hold fire to cool anyhow. I have actually bearly noticed a difference on one of my favorite heavy mechbuilds that has a heavy.

Marauder 5D with 305 LFE,17DHS,Endo-Steel,2 jumpjets, 4 medium pulse lasers,heavy PPC, 2 MRM10 w/2 tons ammo

[N0ni]

Heavy PPCs now sync cooldown with gauss, so you can run 1 of each without penalty for 30 damage and won't have to wait for either weapon to alpha again. 1 extra second is not going to kill you guys, in fact it means you now have 1 extra second of cooling.

It wasn't a HUGE change to HPPCs, you'll survive i promise.

[Y E O N N E]

Meh. It's hardly a nerf, which is good because the HPPC didn't actually need a nerf at all. So if they had to nerf it, I'm satisfied with it being nerfed in such a meaningless way since the weapon is heat-capped.