38 replies to this topic

[Snazzy Dragon]

Nema Nabojiv, on 28 September 2017 - 02:23 PM, said:

Championships as well as any other kind of voice coordinated game have different meta. They may be good in that meta but that meta itself is in turn irrelevant because too few people play in championships and stuff.

The meta of QP is largely influenced by what's effective in comp, but the quick play meta cycle tends to lag behind .

[Asym]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 28 September 2017 - 01:24 PM, said:

Night Gyrs have limited agility for a reason, even with Gauss/PPC nerfed they are still great mechs because they can also do Gauss vomit.

Oh, with respect, whoop-di-do..... NG's are my primary mechs and post skill tree they are only 2/3's of what they were at best....

Big deal they can carry Gauss/PPC: they can't maneuver at all in close combat nor worth a crap in open terrain.... So, for a heavy, what's the point if they can't get to the fight!

If they are being used now in the tourney, so what..........from what I've seen, stationary long range platforms aren't even logical and yet, seem to be SOP for the tourney.... Oh, that's right, this forum has been complaining for months that that practice is NOOB behavior......and yet, seems to be OP for the best of the best.... Such hypocracy and double standards....

Pray tell, what reason? PGI builds a lethal Heavy and then nerfs it into retirement..... The reason: buy another mech.

Here's where I stand on this article: revert all nerf's, quirks, buffs, balance passes and updates of all mechs back to their optimal original conditions and start over and EXCLUDE any nerfing...... We shouldn't have to fight with "export versions" of the mechs we own.

All balancing is doing is artificially creating a battelspace of contridictions.

[Nema Nabojiv]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 28 September 2017 - 02:29 PM, said:

A Night Gyr is still going to be effective in QP just as it would in comp, just like comp however it requires smarter positioning which as spud queue is any evidence of, most people like some of the basics when it comes to positioning.

Yeah, sure, gauss gyrs are op and for that reason people use them as lurm carriers

Still better that sniper gyrs with good "positioning skills" though. If one happens in your team it usually hands even farther away than a lurm boat.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Asym, on 28 September 2017 - 02:40 PM, said:

Big deal they can carry Gauss/PPC: they can't maneuver at all in close combat nor worth a crap in open terrain.... So, for a heavy, what's the point if they can't get to the fight!

Dude what are you even talking about?

• Nothing does well in open terrain in solo queue because no one is going to stand with you and fight.
  
• Dealing with close combat is only an issue if things get close to you and if assaults can deal with lights well enough, why can't it?

Asym, on 28 September 2017 - 02:40 PM, said:

If they are being used now in the tourney, so what..........from what I've seen, stationary long range platforms aren't even logical and yet, seem to be SOP for the tourney.... Oh, that's right, this forum has been complaining for months that that practice is NOOB behavior......and yet, seems to be OP for the best of the best.... Such hypocracy and double standards....

There is a difference between working the same position, and standing still while letting everything shoot you in the CT. That said, the brown sea can say whatever it wants about what is and what isn't "noob" behavior, the reason comp players do certain things is because they have discovered that is what works best (including in QP) so what reason do forumites have other than "it worked in QP where skill levels and equipment optimization can vary wildly invalidating most tests of worthiness of a strat or mech"?

Asym, on 28 September 2017 - 02:40 PM, said:

Pray tell, what reason? PGI builds a lethal Heavy and then nerfs it into retirement..... The reason: buy another mech.

That may be the case, but the Kodiak survived several nerfs because of just how dominant it was. Just because it is nerfed doesn't mean it isn't useful anymore, that doesn't make any sense. Not to mention, what exactly is supposed to take its place right now? The Nova Cat isn't out until mid October.

Nema Nabojiv, on 28 September 2017 - 02:43 PM, said:

Yeah, sure, gauss gyrs are op and for that reason people use them as lurm carriers

Still better that sniper gyrs with good "positioning skills" though. If one happens in your team it usually hands even farther away than a lurm boat.

Like I said, it takes a bit for the meta to trickle down. Regardless, just because you see LRM carrier Night Gyrs doesn't mean it is good. I see plenty of stupid builds on mechs all the time, doesn't mean I go around here saying "well I see this build all the time, it MUST be the best build for that mech!"

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 28 September 2017 - 02:54 PM.

[Bigbacon]

actually, the current quirks the vindicators have they are actually in a good place just no one plays them. I've been playing all variants a lot and they do quiet well and are pretty darn tanky.

[Spheroid]

The Assassin needs a mild nerf. It is outperforming all other quad SRM4 platforms by a wide margin. Also if you nerf the Assassin you make the Cicada look better as well which you mention in your list.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Spheroid, on 28 September 2017 - 03:08 PM, said:

The Assassin needs a mild nerf. It is outperforming all other quad SRM4 platforms by a wide margin. Also if you nerf the Assassin you make the Cicada look better as well which you mention in your list.

Nerfing the Assassin just makes the Assassin as mediocre as the rest. The problem is that all of these mechs are bad compared to everything, not just the Cicada.

[Spheroid]

I said mild nerf. Its very tanky and very agile.

[Nema Nabojiv]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 28 September 2017 - 02:50 PM, said:

Like I said, it takes a bit for the meta to trickle down. Regardless, just because you see LRM carrier Night Gyrs doesn't mean it is good. I see plenty of stupid builds on mechs all the time, doesn't mean I go around here saying "well I see this build all the time, it MUST be the best build for that mech!"

Oh, you totally misunderstand what Im saying. People use gyrs with lurms because gyrs _in quickplay environment_ apparently so horrible they're not good for anything else.

On topic - urbie assassin and bushwacker are too good hitbox-wise and need to be toned down.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Nema Nabojiv, on 28 September 2017 - 03:19 PM, said:

Oh, you totally misunderstand what Im saying. People use gyrs with lurms because gyrs _in quickplay environment_ apparently so horrible they're not good for anything else.

Or people just suck at using them so they default to LRMs just like they did with Warhawks while they were one of the best assaults.

[Nema Nabojiv]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 28 September 2017 - 03:36 PM, said:

Or people just suck at using them so they default to LRMs just like they did with Warhawks while they were one of the best assaults.

Yet noone sucks at using deathstrikes or marauders. Because they are good and gyrs are not.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Nema Nabojiv, on 28 September 2017 - 03:43 PM, said:

Yet noone sucks at using deathstrikes or marauders. Because they are good and gyrs are not.

Actually, I've seen plenty of bad Marauder IIC builds (SPL and LPL boats, super stock, etc), BUT the difference is the fact hardpoints are locked for both the Deathstrike (no missiles to be found) and the Marauder IIC, you can't just swap them like you can the Night Gyr, it forces you into certain subsets of builds.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 28 September 2017 - 03:46 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

I'm only going to comment on the 'Mechs I play a lot, the ones I know like the back of my hand. A lot of these need some modest nudges to go from being slight underperformers to genuinely top-rate. Most of these changes are specific to the 'Mech and don't address the universal deficiencies in firepower and heat efficiency departments.

Locust
3S - return some of its SRM cool-down and the armor it lost
1M - return the Medium Laser duration quirk and the armor it lost
1V - give it +2 ballistics
3V - give it +2 ballistics, +20% MG RoF
1E - not really sure, this one is borderline; perhaps return the 10% range quirk, but that's it
3M - leave it alone entirely

Blackjack
All - Return durability lost, and I do mean all of it, but converting that double structure into an equitable amount of armor instead
BJ-1DC - +10% ballistic velocity
BJ-3 - Return PPC heat and cool-down
Arrow - A modest amount of extra armor on top of the previous buff so it can face-stare

Shadow Cat:
All - Small amount of extra armor in the side torsos and legs

Mist Lynx:
G - remove 10% energy cool-down quirk, replace with +8 armor to each arm
Rest - give +24 armor to arms if they don't have it; convert structure buff to armor where applicable

Marauder:
5D - give it +1 energy in the right torso and return +10% missile velocity
3R - give it +10% ballistic velocity, -10% ballistic heat
5M - give it +10% LB-X spread reduction

Rifleman:
All - moderate armor bonus; otherwise, leave them alone

Jagermech:
All - give +12 armor to each side torso
A - give it -5% missile spread and +15% missile velocity

Battlemaster:
1G - torso yaw increase to 70 degrees
3M - torso yaw increase to 70 degrees

Spheroid, on 28 September 2017 - 03:11 PM, said:

I said mild nerf. Its very tanky and very agile.

So all the other SRM4 platforms are balls, and you want to nerf the one that isn't?

I...can't say I agree with that at all.

[Trenchbird]

I find myself disagreeing with compensating mechs with low HPs with MEGA QUIRKs.

I'd rather PGI took the not-lazy route and fixed the problem by changing hardpoint locations to the upper chest or something, and add only minor 'flavor' quirks.

Edited by Catten Hart, 28 September 2017 - 05:37 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Catten Hart, on 28 September 2017 - 05:37 PM, said:

I find myself disagreeing with compensating mechs with low HPs with MEGA QUIRKs.

I'd rather PGI took the not-lazy route and fixed the problem by changing hardpoint locations to the upper chest or something, and add only minor 'flavor' quirks.

A lot of these can't be fixed by changing hardpoint locations. Some of them can't even be fixed by changing hardpoint number. A lot of these are bad because they can't take a hit at all and, in some cases, can't even evade a hit.

[Bombast]

Catten Hart, on 28 September 2017 - 05:37 PM, said:

I'd rather PGI took the not-lazy route and fixed the problem by changing hardpoint locations to the upper chest or something...

Eww. I'll take mega quirks, please.

[CheeseThief]

Come on, Metatlas isn't that bad looking.

[Bombast]

CheeseThief, on 28 September 2017 - 06:28 PM, said:

Spoiler

Come on, Metatlas isn't that bad looking.

May as well just throw spikes on it and give up on good looking mechs forever.

[Verilligo]

Bombast, on 28 September 2017 - 06:50 PM, said:

May as well just throw spikes on it and give up on good looking mechs forever.

Why in God's name would you bring the Dark Age Atlas into an otherwise perfectly fine thread? And we thought you liked us.

Also not sure why we're bringing up nerfs in a thread that's really all about buffs. Start by buffing up mechs to an equally good level and then you can start tweaking to adjust overperformers. Some mechs WOULD benefit a lot by adjusting hardpoint placement... the Black Knight being a good example where it could be done without looking ridiculous. As for the Night Gyr... I dunno. It's a damn fine mech in the right hands, it's just sluggish. You could buff its agility up, but I'd rather buff the agility of the Timby and give the Night Gyr something else. 75% crit chance reduction? It does only carry a few weapons, after all, given it has to fill limited slots with heavier guns... and the laser heat sinks in lore were intended to provide a lower chance to cook off ammo. It would be a unique durability bonus that probably wouldn't impact comp too strongly, other than giving its gauss rifles a markedly improved chance of not blowing out.

Edited by Verilligo, 29 September 2017 - 05:39 AM.