209 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Snowbluff, on 25 January 2018 - 12:00 PM, said:

How does that match up to doing the same in the WHM 6R?

Well, the mounts are higher for the PPCs, and I find it easier to spread damage in a Cat, personally. The weapon eevation goes double for Spuds like me who refuse to NOT mount the PPCs in the arms of his Whammy. But even for more "meta" builds with the HPPCs in the torso, the Cat is still better for hill humping.

Plus on the WHMs, if you mount the PPCs n the torso, it means your lasers are spread between arms and torsos, which isn't end of the world with armlock, but still seems, inefficient to me.

Otherwise they end up pretty similar. The Cat STs I find easier to protect than a WHMs, though.

[Mole]

Heavy PPCs aren't for every 'mech but my Highlander and my Thanatos both run a pair of them very well. I don't mind the cooldown nerf because they are so hot that I often found myself having to practice fire discipline to manage my heat buildup anyway.

Edited by Mole, 25 January 2018 - 12:13 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

cERPPC being garbage.

Lol.

it is garbage

just because its marginally better than ISERPPCs doesnt mean its still not garbage. although having to take a targeting computer makes it debatable whether it even is better anymore. it now weighs more than ISERPPCs with targeting computer included. Its only real advantage is heat because CDHS are so unbalanced compared to ISDHS. But PGI is eventually going to nerf CDHS or clan heat skills in a significant way.

I rarely if ever see people using CERPPCs anymore. I pretty much only see laser vomit. or gauss/laser.

and for good reason. CERPPC being ghost heat limited at 2 with splash damage that vanishes into thin air makes it trash compared to laser vomit.

Truthfully all PPCs could use a buff. CERPPC needs its splash damage fixed to so no longer disappears. And all non-heavy PPCs need a ghost heat limit of 3. And the 0 damage deadzones on ISPPCs need to be replaced with damage dropoff.

Edited by Khobai, 25 January 2018 - 03:31 PM.

[Nema Nabojiv]

Khobai, on 25 January 2018 - 03:16 PM, said:

I rarely if ever see people using CERPPCs anymore. I pretty much only see laser vomit. or gauss/laser.

True. Reduced to poptarting weapons for shadowcats and that one guy in summoner. Ghostheating it with gauss was a mistake.

[Y E O N N E]

Funny, I see cERPPC in every match. The poptarts, sure, but also Warhawks, Marauder IICs, and the odd Supernova or Huntsman.

[Snowbluff]

Yeonne Greene, on 25 January 2018 - 03:56 PM, said:

Funny, I see cERPPC in every match. The poptarts, sure, but also Warhawks, Marauder IICs, and the odd Supernova or Huntsman.

What you see is safer engines, better endo and ferro, and 33% smaller heat sinks wrapped around an inferior PPC.

[Y E O N N E]

Snowbluff, on 25 January 2018 - 04:07 PM, said:

What you see is safer engines, better endo and ferro, and 33% smaller heat sinks wrapped around an inferior PPC.

That's not how that works. At all.

[Kubernetes]

I feel like I'm in some alternative universe where people trash cERPPCs.

[Mcgral18]

Kubernetes, on 25 January 2018 - 04:56 PM, said:

I feel like I'm in some alternative universe where people trash cERPPCs.

Nah, it's just typical operating procedure of Clam Apologists

[Snowbluff]

Yeonne Greene, on 25 January 2018 - 04:12 PM, said:

That's not how that works. At all.

Kubernetes, on 25 January 2018 - 04:56 PM, said:

I feel like I'm in some alternative universe where people trash cERPPCs.

Man, it'd be harder to trash if it weren't in such a good weapon class. I like PPCs, but I only use the CERPPC because clans literally have no other PPC.

PPC -> 10 damage, 9.5 heat, 7 tons
HPPC -> 15, 14.5 heat, 10 tons
These are the best PPCs. Damage:Heat is 1:1. HPPC is juicy because it breaks the PPC alpha cap, for 30 damage (at 1 ton under 3 PPC worth!). They weight more, but it's ~1 ton for way more heat saved than that mass in sinks. Bad if you're being face hugged.

ERPPC -> 10 damage for too much heat. 7 tons.
CERPPC -> 10 damage for 14.5 heat. 6 tons. Has splash, but really that only applies in a small of cases; it rarely contributes to the kill meaningfully.
These are inferior class PPCs. That have a bad Damage:Heat ratio. Clans have good heat sinks which gets around this, and their only other PPFLD weapon is the gauss, so they use it anyway. The clan one is lighter by one ton, but if it was, say, 7 tons for like 12.5 heat it would be a better weapon.
Velocity and range are better; this makes them better for long range maps, but up close the extra head is hurting you.

Light PPC 5 damage for like 5 heat and 3 tons. Kinda of in a weird place. If you only need 15 PPLD and have the hardpoints, it's cool at having the same PPFLD:tonnage ratio as the CERPPC (but lacks the great range and velocity of it) but also the Damage:heat ratio of the superior PPCs. The BIG downside is slot and hardpoint cost, as well as having THE WORST ghost heat limit.

This is all in a vacuum and assuming QP (CW has longer ranges, making Inferior class PPCs better), not counting good applications (like a Warhawk is good with CERPPC, and the WHM-6R is really good with superior class PPCs). In short, if Clans had PPC, they would sometimes use it over CERPPC. If the IS had CERPPC, the would use it over the ERPPC when they want the range, but probably not over the superior PPCs.

Edited by Snowbluff, 25 January 2018 - 05:49 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

You cannot separate the PPCs from the inherent limitations that their respective tech bases impose on them. That is an entirely pointless exercise.

Bottom line is that all IS PPCs running with IS limitations underperform Clan ER PPCs running with Clan limitations. Period. There is no if, and, or but.

[Snowbluff]

Yeonne Greene, on 25 January 2018 - 08:10 PM, said:

You cannot separate the PPCs from the inherent limitations that their respective tech bases impose on them. That is an entirely pointless exercise.

Bottom line is that all IS PPCs running with IS limitations underperform Clan ER PPCs running with Clan limitations. Period. There is no if, and, or but.

Ok, then CERPPC are an inferior PPC wrapped in better heatsinks engines ferro endo. :l

[Mcgral18]

Snowbluff, on 25 January 2018 - 08:16 PM, said:

Ok, then CERPPC are an inferior PPC wrapped in better heatsinks engines ferro endo. :l

Only, it weights less, is smaller, has more damage and more range

Outright inferior! Trash Clam Tech!

[Spare Parts Bin]

I am trying out dual CERPPCs on my Orion ll-C. I am not totally sold yet.

[Dago Red]

I assume since splash damage doesn't count then no one would mind if they moved the heavy ppc up to 15 damage plus 5 splash?

[FupDup]

Spare Parts Bin, on 25 January 2018 - 08:23 PM, said:

I am trying out dual CERPPCs on my Orion ll-C. I am not totally sold yet.

That's not the best mech to use them on for several reasons. Try something like the Nova-A or Summoner with both side torso nipples equipped.

Edited by FupDup, 25 January 2018 - 08:28 PM.

[Snowbluff]

Dago Red, on 25 January 2018 - 08:24 PM, said:

I assume since splash damage doesn't count then no one would mind if they moved the heavy ppc up to 15 damage plus 5 splash?

No. They would be pretty busted if they were 15 damage.

FupDup, on 25 January 2018 - 08:28 PM, said:

That's not the best mech to use them on for several reasons. Try something like the Nova-A or Summoner with both side torso nipples equipped.

This. Not having good hardpoints will mess you up. It's not like an IS mech where the quirks will matter to the point slightly bad hardpoints arent as bad.

[Strength Damage Cliff Racer]

Snowbluff, on 25 January 2018 - 08:16 PM, said:

Ok, then CERPPC are an inferior PPC wrapped in better heatsinks engines ferro endo. :l

Well, you can have less heat for your cERPPC as soon as I get my isLL to weight 1 ton and stack in group of 6.
Jokes aside, cERPPCs get reliable full splash when hitting the side torsos. You know, the stuff you should probably aim for anyway.
Also, it's not the range that people buy with ERPPCs. It's inability for enemy to invalidate your attacks by simply being too close. As for extras, clans get their splash damage (Which doesn't help much in "1v1 me noob" but goes a long way softening enemies before brawl occurs), IS got their projectile speed (Because range on their lasers is laughable should you try to "snipe". Hell, back in the old days it took blackjack with 25% range bonus, bulk of extra armor and 10% range module to go toe to toe with clan laser vomit).

[Snowbluff]

Strength Damage Cliff Racer, on 25 January 2018 - 08:38 PM, said:

Well, you can have less heat for your cERPPC as soon as I get my isLL to weight 1 ton and stack in group of 6.
Jokes aside, cERPPCs get reliable full splash when hitting the side torsos. You know, the stuff you should probably aim for anyway.
Also, it's not the range that people buy with ERPPCs. It's inability for enemy to invalidate your attacks by simply being too close. As for extras, clans get their splash damage (Which doesn't help much in "1v1 me noob" but goes a long way softening enemies before brawl occurs), IS got their projectile speed (Because range on their lasers is laughable should you try to "snipe". Hell, back in the old days it took blackjack with 25% range bonus, bulk of extra armor and 10% range module to go toe to toe with clan laser vomit).

Pfft, I'm not saying it should be buffed, just that I'd rather have the regular versions of IS PPCs than the clan one. I use IS PPCs way more.

Also, I think it's a personal problem if you can't do anything about the hug zone. You have to be mindful of what your weapons strengths are. Even though you can fire an ERPPC up close doesn't make it a good weapon to brawl. I've been in furballs where people have moved in an out of my min range with PPC and ATMs, and I've made it work.

[Kubernetes]

Snowbluff, on 25 January 2018 - 08:54 PM, said:

Even though you can fire an ERPPC up close doesn't make it a good weapon to brawl. I've been in furballs where people have moved in an out of my min range with PPC and ATMs, and I've made it work.

I wouldn't say it's ideal, but the fact that it's PPFLD makes it more effective than lasers in a knife-fight. At end-game when everything's either busted up or a light mech, a pair of ERPPCs can be the scariest thing out there.

Regarding objections to heat, I don't think it matters because people usually don't pair cERPPCs with other high heat weapons, if at all. My Summoner is still really strong, despite having lost a lot of quirks.