239 replies to this topic

[Dakkss]

How people think a mech with 120 armour at best is going to break the game is beyond me. Literally a single AC/20 round to the leg and it's almost over. Just don't suck at aiming.

[Genesis23]

so, the basic pack contains the all-dakka and the ultimate lazor-vomit versions, while the collectors and hero versions are just mix-ups? thats a really fair move by PGI, considering many people dont really like mixed builds and often prefer boating (and lets be real here, the 12 lmg version will be the most popular anyway).

but honestly, im a bit worried. i mean yes, the piranha looks awesome but the hardpoint inflation gets quite a bit out of hand with that one. probably easily making most clan lights including arctic cheetah obsolete, not even counting the IS mechs it easily surpasses

[Genesis23]

Dakkss, on 03 October 2017 - 10:56 PM, said:

How people think a mech with 120 armour at best is going to break the game is beyond me. Literally a single AC/20 round to the leg and it's almost over. Just don't suck at aiming.

very likely to have more armor than just 120, more like about 170 like the similar tonned locust. and you would be suprised how much punishment locusts can endure if played right.

[Koniving]

BrunoSSace, on 02 October 2017 - 03:54 PM, said:

Gratz clanys on your 20 toner PIRANHA. Look like I will be running streaks for a month, once this patch drops. I'm going fishing in my Assassin's. \o/.

Now I don't feel so bad about having 9 streak launchers on an assault...

[Dee Eight]

The Basilisk, on 02 October 2017 - 11:23 PM, said:

High Hardpoint count == low quirks

So...how do you imagine will you fare on a 20t mechs without much in terms of armor and structure quirks against...say...a Muromets with 3 LB-X AC10 ?

Think I will go fishing a lot when this thing comes.

I think... people don't realize how fast it burns thru ammo... 2000 shots for 1 ton... 120 shots per second = 16.66 seconds And that's only 200 total damage for that ton. You're not killing many mechs with that loadout.

Edited by Dee Eight, 03 October 2017 - 11:58 PM.

[Kinski Orlawisch]

Why an engine cap of 180 when he has a 180 built in?

[Jay Leon Hart]

Kinski Orlawisch, on 03 October 2017 - 11:52 PM, said:

Why an engine cap of 180 when he has a 180 built in?

The highest it would get is a 190 (same as a Locust), but the Locust needs *something* to be better than the Piranha, I guess engine rating is that thing.

[Gasoline]

Genesis23, on 03 October 2017 - 11:10 PM, said:

but honestly, im a bit worried. i mean yes, the piranha looks awesome but the hardpoint inflation gets quite a bit out of hand with that one. probably easily making most clan lights including arctic cheetah obsolete, not even counting the IS mechs it easily surpasses

No JJs, no ECM. So no way it's gonna obsolete the ACH or MLX. The Piranha will be a harasser par excellence, but it will be a glass cannon at best. It might outperform the energy variants of the Jenner IIC, but that's just because the Jenner has the worst hitbox in existence.

[Curccu]

Dee Eight, on 03 October 2017 - 11:40 PM, said:

I think... people don't realize how fast it burns thru ammo... 2000 shots for 1 ton... 120 shots per second = 16.66 seconds And that's only 200 total damage for that ton. You're not killing many mechs with that loadout.

stealthraccoon, on 03 October 2017 - 07:37 AM, said:

So you all realize the stock 12 MG model only has 1 ton of ammunition? The hero has 2... I’m not seeing much room for more. Still, it’s that 15 micro laser bit that worries me.

Stock builds are not very popular in this game...
This mech has more podspace than MLX

Dakkss, on 03 October 2017 - 10:56 PM, said:

How people think a mech with 120 armour at best is going to break the game is beyond me. Literally a single AC/20 round to the leg and it's almost over. Just don't suck at aiming.

You have most likely encountered only super potatoes in their locusts if it is easy for you to hit their legs with AC20.

[Pilotasso]

I always cringe a little bit when people mention bulseye light mech going by 150km/h as if he/she can do it on a regular basis (and that AC20 is strickly short range on heavy mechs makes it even more laughable)

[Genesis23]

just a bit sad this is the second 20 tonner that easily wipes the floor with the spiders. why are those even in the game anymore, when they are just ridiculously outclassed by mechs just 2/3 of their weight?

[cougurt]

Dee Eight, on 03 October 2017 - 11:40 PM, said:

I think... people don't realize how fast it burns thru ammo... 2000 shots for 1 ton... 120 shots per second = 16.66 seconds And that's only 200 total damage for that ton. You're not killing many mechs with that loadout.

that's comparable damage per ton to the rest of the ammo based weapons, and you're also unlikely to waste much of it given that machine guns are short range and hitscan. if you're doing damage quickly and efficiently, what does it matter how fast you burn through your ammo?

[Ovion]

WiNNiep00h, on 03 October 2017 - 08:33 PM, said:

Can somebody confirm this for sure ?
Do I have to wait till after October 18th or even till after November 14th to make it count for next year's reward program?

No one can answer this for you really as it will depend on what PGI decides next year.
The year one rewards were 2-3 years of purchasing, year two was 10 months.

My recommendation to you, is if you want the Piranha just get it before Oct31st for the pre-order bonuses to get the best bang for your buck.
If you want to ensure other parts count for next years, wait till December to buy the add-ons / hero / collectors.

Dakkss, on 03 October 2017 - 10:56 PM, said:

How people think a mech with 120 armour at best is going to break the game is beyond me. Literally a single AC/20 round to the leg and it's almost over. Just don't suck at aiming.

107 actually if built optimally. (of 138)
Plus the internals
Plus probably with something like +6-12 armour a leg to account for the 'fall' damage taken for running across a plain.

Also, 1 AC20 shell to the leg of a locust is half way there if it's inside optimal range.
But being the Locust is nimble enough to dodge AC20 fire, that'll be a trick to do consistently against any pilot worth a damn.

Vs Locust, your best bet is to lead shots to the torso to get consistent landing fire.

Genesis23, on 03 October 2017 - 11:18 PM, said:

very likely to have more armor than just 120, more like about 170 like the similar tonned locust. and you would be suprised how much punishment locusts can endure if played right.

Na. I mean, Locusts don't get that much. (see above)
An optimal Locust has 107 base armour, 59 internals +18 (arms and legs) for a total of .184 (almost 10% of that just in the head) health across all locations.

Even the tankiest Locust, the 3V with max armour and survival quriks, is only 147 armour + 113 internals for 260 total (17% of that just in the head. Realistically, it'd be 228 total, with the standard 5/1/5 arm/head spread for optimal weight)

This'll be a slower 20T Commando (with lots of tiny guns) I reckon.

Jay Leon Hart, on 03 October 2017 - 11:55 PM, said:

The highest it would get is a 190 (same as a Locust), but the Locust needs *something* to be better than the Piranha, I guess engine rating is that thing.

Engine Rating (speed), Size, and Agility.

There's no reason the Locust (and Pirahna) couldn't have a 195 or 200 cap at this point, but it is what it is~

Genesis23, on 03 October 2017 - 11:10 PM, said:

so, the basic pack contains the all-dakka and the ultimate lazor-vomit versions, while the collectors and hero versions are just mix-ups? thats a really fair move by PGI, considering many people dont really like mixed builds and often prefer boating (and lets be real here, the 12 lmg version will be the most popular anyway).

but honestly, im a bit worried. i mean yes, the piranha looks awesome but the hardpoint inflation gets quite a bit out of hand with that one. probably easily making most clan lights including arctic cheetah obsolete, not even counting the IS mechs it easily surpasses

Na.
It's going to be fragile, no jumping, no ECM, no MASC,
The Piranha is going to be FAR more risk/reward than the Cheetah or the Mist Lynx both of which will be significantly tankier, and have JJ's + ECM access,as well as more longevity with their guns.

Piranha will have to hite and fade, bursts of high damage with a top limit on ammo potential (/ heat cap for lasers)

Genesis23, on 04 October 2017 - 01:23 AM, said:

just a bit sad this is the second 20 tonner that easily wipes the floor with the spiders. why are those even in the game anymore, when they are just ridiculously outclassed by mechs just 2/3 of their weight?

Spider used to be *the king* of Light Mechs for ages, then again later a couple of times.
It may get its time again.

And even then, the Spider is hardly down and out - it's still one of the fastest and jumpiest mechs in the game, very agile and with options for ECM / Stealth. You just have to take 2-3 heavier lasers rather than lots of little ones.

[Curccu]

Ovion, on 04 October 2017 - 01:49 AM, said:

There's no reason the Locust (and Pirahna) couldn't have a 195 or 200 cap at this point, but it is what it is~

There is a reason, very good reason... PGI has said that if things go faster than Locust currently goes with full speed tweak, hit reg will break totally.
So game engine limitation (or PGIs skill to code it).

Ovion, on 04 October 2017 - 01:49 AM, said:

Na.
It's going to be fragile, no jumping, no ECM, no MASC,
The Piranha is going to be FAR more risk/reward than the Cheetah or the Mist Lynx both of which will be significantly tankier, and have JJ's + ECM access,as well as more longevity with their guns.

Piranha will have to hite and fade, bursts of high damage with a top limit on ammo potential (/ heat cap for lasers)

Sure Piranha has less hitpoints than ACH/MLX and doesn't jump but.
Faster, Smaller, Same number of true DHS as MLX and more pod space than MLX.

Ovion, on 04 October 2017 - 01:49 AM, said:

Spider used to be *the king* of Light Mechs for ages, then again later a couple of times.
It may get its time again.

This was mostly because Spiders hitbox was quite broken (didn't register hits well), good quirks and resize made spider a lot bigger.
I don't see spider becoming king of lights again.

edit: wow edit broke this post nicely :S

Edited by Curccu, 04 October 2017 - 03:15 AM.

[Dee Eight]

Curccu, on 04 October 2017 - 12:51 AM, said:

Stock builds are not very popular in this game...
This mech has more podspace than MLX

Except it doesn't. Unless you strip the armor, downsize the engine, or maybe put the standard 60 salvaged from an urbie into it. A 180XL and 3 external DHS, 128 pts of armor in a 20 ton mech totals 13.5 tons, so thus 6.5 tons free for weapons. Changing to FF, lets you increase it 6 points to 134 (as on the reinforcement models) and save half a ton. Still.. only 7 total tons available then. A myst lynx has 7.5 tons available at 134 pts of armor. The MLX-G as it comes stock is 7 tons because its up armored by half a ton from the prime.

IF you downsized the engine to a 170XL, at an expense of 2.78 million cbills, you can then end up half a ton better. Going down further to a 145XL, you'd get another half ton over the 170XL and only cost you 2.38 million cbills. Now you've just past the MLX, at the same speed and armor but without the jump jets or probe benefits.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Dee Eight, on 04 October 2017 - 02:34 AM, said:

or maybe put the standard 60 salvaged from an urbie into it.

As a note, the STD 60 can only go in an Urbanmech, no other 'mech can equip it.

[Curccu]

Dee Eight, on 04 October 2017 - 02:34 AM, said:

Except it doesn't. Unless you strip the armor, downsize the engine, or maybe put the standard 60 salvaged from an urbie into it. A 180XL and 3 external DHS, 128 pts of armor in a 20 ton mech totals 13.5 tons, so thus 6.5 tons free for weapons. Changing to FF, lets you increase it 6 points to 134 (as on the reinforcement models) and save half a ton. Still.. only 7 total tons available then. A myst lynx has 7.5 tons available at 134 pts of armor. The MLX-G as it comes stock is 7 tons because its up armored by half a ton from the prime.

Stocks values are irrelevant.
Go to smurfy pick any Locust add XL180 and 3 heatsinks, click endo and ferro(clan ferro is better) on = ~podspace of piranha with full armor
Same thing with Mist Lynx just click max armor = podspace of MLX
Results are that Locust has more podspace than MLX and Piranha has even more because clan ferro is better than its IS counterpart.

[Dee Eight]

Curccu, on 04 October 2017 - 03:34 AM, said:

Stocks values are irrelevant.
Go to smurfy pick any Locust add XL180 and 3 heatsinks, click endo and ferro(clan ferro is better) on = ~podspace of piranha with full armor
Same thing with Mist Lynx just click max armor = podspace of MLX
Results are that Locust has more podspace than MLX and Piranha has even more because clan ferro is better than its IS counterpart.

Your Smurfy math is wrong because you're trying to compare a maximum armored lynx to a lighter armored piranha. That you don't understand WHY that is NOT how available pod space is correctly calculated for comparisons is not my problem. Stock values are in fact all that relevant for the comparison. You total the fixed equipment of the lynx and an equal weight of armor and compare to the piranha with the equipment it needs to function, and the same weight of armor, and the difference between that and the total chassis weight is the # available for additional weapons/armor/equipment. And the lynx has more. Always will. Unless you as I already explained, down rate the engine of the Piranha to a 145XL. Without doing that, even with the FF armor added, it will never have more tonnaged available for weapons than the lynx.

If that math is too complicated for you.... Go into the in-game store, click a mlx-prime, enter the mechlab, strip the equipment (its an omni so only the non-fixed components will strip out) and presto... drops the total to 17.5 tons.. That's with the same 134 pts of FF armor as the Piranha A and B have. Thus we're comparing 7.5 tons available to 7.0 tons available.

Another way to go would be to just look at the stock loadouts as they're presented on the store page of the Piranha A and B and subtract the weight of weapons they carry. The 8 MGs, 2 micro ER lasers, and single small ER laser total 3 tons. Four AMS units add 2 tons to that. One ton each of MG and AMS ammo and presto... 7 tons available.

How many different ways would you like to have it explained to you that you are wrong ?

[Ovion]

Curccu, on 04 October 2017 - 01:58 AM, said:

There is a reason, very good reason... PGI has said that if things go faster than Locust currently goes with full speed tweak, hit reg will break totally.
So game engine limitation (or PGIs skill to code it).

actually no.
It's fine up to around 183 now from what they said previously.
Especially being the Locust isn't even the fastest mech in MWO.
Which is why it should be fine for the Locust to have a 195/200 with the lower speed tweak bonuses we have now.

Curccu, on 04 October 2017 - 01:58 AM, said:

Sure Piranha has less hitpoints than ACH/MLX and doesn't jump but.
Faster, Smaller, Same number of true DHS as MLX and more pod space than MLX.

Faster, yes a little.
Smaller, to be seen.
More pod space, slightly than the MLX (0.5 to 1T more with the 180), (but slightly less than the ACH (0.5 to 1T less))/

Ultimately, I don't think it'll come close to invalidating the ACH.
The MLX was only sort of considered 'valid' at all recently with the lease of the latest variant.. so it was hardly on stable ground anyway - I think *any* 20-25T clan mech would likely supercede the MLX.

Curccu, on 04 October 2017 - 01:58 AM, said:

This was mostly because Spiders hitbox was quite broken (didn't register hits well), good quirks and resize made spider a lot bigger.
I don't see spider becoming king of lights again.

in the resize the spider came off better than other at least. And it still does alright now, just not *amazing*.

The reason I think the PIR will be fine, is that it won't be easy to play, it'll be a glass cannon.
It'll punish players for not paying attention to their surroundings though.

[Grinster]

Londo Mollari:
But this…this, this, this is like… being nibbled to death by, uh…Pah! What are those Earth creatures called? Feathers, long bill, webbed feet…go "quack".

Vir Cotto:
Cats.

Londo:
Cats! I'm being nibbled to death by cats.