32 replies to this topic

[Christophe Ivanov]

As some of you know, not all mechs have AMS capability. I like the idea of systems such as AMS and ECM's to able to be added to any mech if anyone so desires. As such, these two systems in my opinion should be treated separate from weapons and armor. YES they would effect the overall tonnage, but should not effect the standard load out (accept the overall tonnage if equipped as explained). My favorite mech The Dire Wolf Prime chassis does not have either. YES I know it has one Omni mech that has one of them, but if I equip it with that, I cannot have the load out I currently have and makes the option useless.

Opinions? Seeking civil responses please!

[Nameless King]

Not sure about the AMS, I thought every mech could have ams but I dont use ams so no clue. You are not going to get ecm on anything that does not already have it.

Sorry I see no reason to put ecm onto every mech in the game.

[Khobai]

you should only get incoming missile warnings if you have AMS equipped. then there would be more incentive to use AMS.

and ecm shouldnt even grant stealth at all, its not supposed to. only stealth armor should grant stealth. instead ECM should do the things its supposed to do like creating fake radar contacts, cutting enemies off from their sensor network, etc...

and maybe passive sensor mode could also grant a weaker form of stealth (like ECM without skill nodes) if they ever added active/passive sensor modes to the game. pretty much every other mechwarrior game has sensors modes, why not MWO?

Edited by Khobai, 29 September 2017 - 05:52 AM.

[Nema Nabojiv]

Nope, bad idea. Ability to shoot down missiles have to come with some disadvantages. What you suggest is shifting meta to make lurms suck even more (and atms. they dont suck but still) just because you're unwilling to make sacrifices in one of your builds.

King Alen, on 29 September 2017 - 05:41 AM, said:

Sorry I see no reason to put ecm onto every mech in the game.

Just wait till thanatos rolls out

Edited by Nema Nabojiv, 29 September 2017 - 05:49 AM.

[Nameless King]

Nema Nabojiv, on 29 September 2017 - 05:50 AM, said:

Nope, bad idea. Ability to shoot down missiles have to come with some disadvantages. What you suggest is shifting meta to make lurms suck even more (and atms. they dont suck but still) just because you're unwilling to make sacrifices in one of your builds.


Just wait till thanatos rolls out

Bought them all, but that is not the same as putting ecm onto every mech in the game.

[Asym]

I respectfullt disagree with your concept.

ECM is a sophiscated syetem that isn't a small package.... It has a large cost and that cost is space, power and critical placement. I'll assume, like stealth packages, it's designed for forward units to close with the enemy and expolit their detection weaknesses. You are spend "x" in ECM for "y" in combat power....

AMS is another combat mulitplier that is defensive. It is a weapons system. But, specifically not intended for every vehicle... Look at today's military; do you see a ADA weapon of every vehicle? Why not? Control of the airspace is a complicated adventure and too much is as bad as too little..... There are dedicated ADA systems in MWO.... Have one on your team. Equip AMS on the vehicles that are designed for AMS and if your favorite vehicle can't equip AMS, find another vehicle that can if you are that worried (and, I don't know why that could be because Radar Dep is pretty darn good.) AMS isn't just a stand alone weapon.... Imagine the sensor tie in to the mech's sensor net and the additional processing space becessary just to install it.....let alone have it automonously shoot in a 360 degree sphere and in all aspects of trajectory.....

Good idea......no.

Edited by Asym, 29 September 2017 - 05:55 AM.

[Nameless King]

Khobai, on 29 September 2017 - 05:49 AM, said:

you should only get incoming missile warnings if you have AMS equipped. then there would be more incentive to use AMS.

and ecm shouldnt even grant stealth at all, its not supposed to. only stealth armor should grant stealth. instead ECM should do the things its supposed to do like creating fake radar contacts, cutting enemies off from their sensor network, etc...

and maybe passive sensor mode could also grant a weaker form of stealth (like ECM without skill nodes) if they ever added active/passive sensor modes to the game

I dont run ams or ecm and still only die to LRMs every 20th match maybe. When I die more I will think about it.

[TheArisen]

Nema Nabojiv, on 29 September 2017 - 05:50 AM, said:

Nope, bad idea. Ability to shoot down missiles have to come with some disadvantages. What you suggest is shifting meta to make lurms suck even more (and atms. they dont suck but still) just because you're unwilling to make sacrifices in one of your builds.


Just wait till thanatos rolls out

The Thanatos has ecm in lore, etc. Idk why you mention it.

@OP

All mechs can equip 1 ams/lams. Technically these mechs didn't have them in lore so be thankful. But if I understand correctly you want to epuip as many as you feel like as long as you have tons/slots or basically no ams hard point but treat it like BAP or a TC.

[Willard Phule]

As far as omnimechs are concerned, you're actually correct. Unfortunately, PGI chose to interpret omni technology differently than has been used in both BT and other MW titles. The concept of the "omnipod" is supposed to represent a slot on a mech that can be used for anything...any weapon system, any electronic, anything.

The IS Battlemechs aren't as configurable. If the specific model produced was designed for ECM or AMS, then it will have the hardpoint. Some do, some don't based on the role they're supposed to perform.

In BT rules, you can modify a battlemech from stock, but it takes time and money. Clan Omnis, on the other hand, are supposed to be repairable and modifiable in the field....which is what makes them superior to Battlemechs. Or is supposed to.

[Damnedtroll]

The problem is that not a lot of people play in group... when playing in a group you can manage to have a good ams boat in each lance.

With all the cover provided in all the maps, i don't get killed a lot from lrm... just getting harassed and have to find some cover and i act more or less the same with one ams.

[Khobai]

Quote

I dont run ams or ecm and still only die to LRMs every 20th match maybe. When I die more I will think about it.

obviously LRMs arnt good enough.

the whole point of getting rid of incoming missile warnings unless you have AMS equipped is to make LRMs more lethal

[Roadbuster]

Christophe Ivanov, on 29 September 2017 - 05:37 AM, said:

As some of you know, not all mechs have AMS capability.

Name one...because there is only 1 without AMS.

Want AMS on a clan mech? Equip the correct omnipod and you're fine.
A number of them even give you the choice to get multiple AMS.
And all IS mechs, except the Cicada X-5 hero, have AMS hardpoints.

[Rovertoo]

Khobai, on 29 September 2017 - 06:22 AM, said:

obviously LRMs arnt good enough.

the whole point of getting rid of incoming missile warnings unless you have AMS equipped is to make LRMs more lethal

Well I kind of like the warning because it has a good psychological effect, even if its just an Lrm5 people will run for cover. Kind of like a Rac kinda. Though I agree not having the warning would be a pretty nice buff. Maybe just change the warning to a less obnoxious general warning that another mech has locked on to you, regardlees of the enemy having missles or not.

[Bombast]

AMS, maybe, but definitely not ECM. ECM hard points have an effect on overall chassis balance (Reduced weapon hardpoints, quirks, etc) for a reason.

EDIT: EMS? The hell was I thinking?

Edited by Bombast, 29 September 2017 - 09:38 AM.

[FireStoat]

At the moment, PGI has assigned quirk bonuses to Clan Omnimechs only if they run with their 8/8 pods. In the larger percentage of omnimechs, the AMS is found on only one pod of one variant, with the intent that AMS is technically available to all variants that equip that pod. But this of course wrecks the 8/8 bonus for all of the variants but one in nearly all cases.

It's a minor detail, but still an important one that gives an additional edge to using a Battlemech over an Omnimech.

[Lykaon]

Christophe Ivanov, on 29 September 2017 - 05:37 AM, said:

As some of you know, not all mechs have AMS capability. I like the idea of systems such as AMS and ECM's to able to be added to any mech if anyone so desires. As such, these two systems in my opinion should be treated separate from weapons and armor. YES they would effect the overall tonnage, but should not effect the standard load out (accept the overall tonnage if equipped as explained). My favorite mech The Dire Wolf Prime chassis does not have either. YES I know it has one Omni mech that has one of them, but if I equip it with that, I cannot have the load out I currently have and makes the option useless.

Opinions? Seeking civil responses please!

Clans have a weakness with AMS deployment on many chassis because the pods that grant the AMS slot frequently do not include any or any desired weapon hardpoints.

But, the Clan mechs are the ONLY mechs that can mount triple AMS. So maybe the balance isn't on the individual but on the whole team.

For example clan light omnimechs.

Kitfox may have 3 AMS
Cougars may have 2 AMS
Myst Lynx may mount 2 AMS

Medium Omnimechs

Ice Ferret may have 2 AMS
Huntsman may have 2 AMS
Nova may mount 3 AMS
Stormcrow may have 2 AMS

Heavy Omnimechs

Summoner has up to 2 AMS

[Paigan]

Christophe Ivanov, on 29 September 2017 - 05:37 AM, said:

As some of you know, not all mechs have AMS capability. I like the idea of systems such as AMS and ECM's to able to be added to any mech if anyone so desires. As such, these two systems in my opinion should be treated separate from weapons and armor. YES they would effect the overall tonnage, but should not effect the standard load out (accept the overall tonnage if equipped as explained). My favorite mech The Dire Wolf Prime chassis does not have either. YES I know it has one Omni mech that has one of them, but if I equip it with that, I cannot have the load out I currently have and makes the option useless.

Opinions? Seeking civil responses please!

The funny thing about PGI is:
First, they introduce interchangable omnipods with omni-pod-quirks, so usually not all Omnimech variants have AMS (because you can switch in the pod, right?) and THEN they move a considerable amount or even all quirks to the set-of-8 quirks to discourage pod-switching and nerf Omnimechs. But, oh, they didn't give every variant AMS. Because you can switch the pods, right?

E.g. Variants like the WHK-C. I would have loved to use LAMS, but it simply had no hardpoint for it.
But well, they nerfed it into uselessness and the Marauder IIC does everything better now, even cooling. And it even has AMS.
Awesome game design job.

Edited by Paigan, 29 September 2017 - 01:05 PM.

[Daemon04]

I remember MW4 Mercs providing an option to run ecm and ams and even jumpjets on a lot of mechs.
this would of course come with a cost - couildnt cram in that many weapons.
hardpoints were slot and tonnage restricted because the bigger the weapon was the heavier it actually was. aka there was no boating or high alphas possible, i guess? not entirely sure on this one.
MWO instead provides hardpoints without slot restrictions which means you can easily mount a ppc on a light whereas in MW4 that wasnt possible at all.
the cost of full customization comes with the bargain of just a selection of mechs being able to equp ecm and jumpjets.

otherwise everyone would bring ecm and everyone would try to poptart. stealth warrior online


since ams doenst exactly provide the same advantages like in MW4 because of gameplay mechanics such as lrm spam every variant does have it but you dont necessarily need it except for dual or triple ams which in fact is a bonus.

IS has good amount of dual ams mechs.
Clans also have a good amount of dual ams but indeed an exceptional selection for triple ams mechs.(disclaimer: in order to run dual ams on some clan mechs a hero omnipod may be necessary)

im only running dual ams or none at all.

Edited by Daemon04, 29 September 2017 - 12:58 PM.

[Mystere]

Khobai, on 29 September 2017 - 05:49 AM, said:

you should only get incoming missile warnings if you have AMS equipped. then there would be more incentive to use AMS.

This, this, a thousand this!

[Prototelis]

MW4 had a terrible mechlab that let you do terrible things provided you had the physical space.

Boating and ridic alphas were definitely the name of the game.

And there were light mechs that ran ppc, or light ppc.