76 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

Dakota1000, on 07 October 2017 - 05:09 PM, said:

KDR alone is worthless exactly because of those people who go out and only kill crippled mechs then hide in corners, having really done nothing, I care more of KMDD. Though, I never mentioned KDR in my post, I said exactly to cripple enemies or quickly kill them so that they are unable to harm enemies. I'm often the guy who'll turn someone to a stick and move onto more important targets and the guy who makes whoever is shooting at my allies regret it. Why turn the other cheek and sponge damage when you can remove theirs?

In the end we both get the high win rates we want, your method is by sharing armor with your team, my method is by focusing fire by marking targets, ripping a big hole in them, and having the team focus down enemies quick. Then again, its not like I don't take my fair share of damage in matches anyway, I just don't take additional damage trying to save every Rambo who thinks charging a firing line was a bright idea, I spend my armor making favorable trades.

Favorable trades are perfect. So long as someone is shooting at you - ideally doing little or no damage. The point is that it's not 12 enemies always shooting 11 or 10 allies.

Tog always want to make good trades and if a teammate Ramos try to capitalize and either reposition while the enemy kills him or exploit the enemies who run in to the open to secure kills.

The best way to herd pugs is go leg or core 1 or 2 enemies and then say "Cored Awesome in F6" and watch the cowardly puggles scrabble for a kill.

[gooddragon1]

I don't snipe from 800 meters though. I just stick slightly behind the other guys in a group and shoot at people. I just want to kill like one thing each match. But I don't want frenzied and frantic brawler gameplay. I'd snipe* if it weren't such a pain :/

*When planetside 2 was still alive I used to play NC with a railjack and just shoot people who stood still from a distance of 200m with no bullet drop, maybe a little higher with bullet drop if needed. Nice relaxing gameplay. What I like about mwo is that nothing is immune to my weapons fire (tanks are immune in plantside 2 against sniper fire).

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

MischiefSC, on 07 October 2017 - 05:34 PM, said:

Favorable trades are perfect. So long as someone is shooting at you - ideally doing little or no damage. The point is that it's not 12 enemies always shooting 11 or 10 allies.

Tog always want to make good trades and if a teammate Ramos try to capitalize and either reposition while the enemy kills him or exploit the enemies who run in to the open to secure kills.

The best way to herd pugs is go leg or core 1 or 2 enemies and then say "Cored Awesome in F6" and watch the cowardly puggles scrabble for a kill.

Looks like we have pretty much the same idea, just expressing it differently. I tend to not say I'm getting shot at or "sharing armor" if I'm making a favorable trade that was a free trade. As I said, they shoot the cover around me, but not me, though I guess that could be considered shooting at me.

The command wheel's target spotted command is a pretty nice pug herding tool and keeps tabs on an enemy who gets out of sensor sight. Even LRM boats will target things you spot from time to time, along with the rest of the team if you open a section up.

PUGs really are like sharks sometimes, they're very timid right up until there is blood in the water.

[Tarogato]

In my opinion, "every man for himself" is the only way to play solo QP. If you expect anything more than that, you're only setting yourself up for disappointment.

But I suppose many of us differ on what it means to be "every man for himself." The way I treat it... I consider myself the only mech on the field that is capable of winning the match for my team. So self-preservation is my #1 priority, and quickly killing the enemy is my other #1 priority. After all, you can't kill the enemy at all if you're dead, and you can't kill the enemy in a timely manner if you're just hiding in the back. So you have to balance aggression with passivity. Always be the last guy on your team to die in a match... but always be the first guy to deal damage and get a kill in that same match - don't count on your teammates to make early plays for you, you need to get your own hands dirty.

[ocular tb]

Nothing will get a team of PUGS moving quite like the sight of a nearby enemy light. The downside is everyone wants to chase it despite being in something 1/3 the speed lol. (can't blame them for wanting to try though- it's fun)

[MischiefSC]

gooddragon1, on 07 October 2017 - 05:40 PM, said:

I don't snipe from 800 meters though. I just stick slightly behind the other guys in a group and shoot at people. I just want to kill like one thing each match. But I don't want frenzied and frantic brawler gameplay. I'd snipe* if it weren't such a pain :/

*When planetside 2 was still alive I used to play NC with a railjack and just shoot people who stood still from a distance of 200m with no bullet drop, maybe a little higher with bullet drop if needed. Nice relaxing gameplay. What I like about mwo is that nothing is immune to my weapons fire (tanks are immune in plantside 2 against sniper fire).

Raven 3L. 3erll. Relocate often, stay closw enough to your teammates to save you whrn the enemy lights come.

Thunder-Nipple Summoner 2x erppcs poptart. Practice that until you're good at it and you'll go far.

[Novakaine]

Wrong and dumb.

[gooddragon1]

MischiefSC, on 07 October 2017 - 06:10 PM, said:

Raven 3L. 3erll. Relocate often, stay closw enough to your teammates to save you whrn the enemy lights come.

Thunder-Nipple Summoner 2x erppcs poptart. Practice that until you're good at it and you'll go far.

Currently I just have a Warhammer with 2 erLLas and 4 erMLas, a lams (to be useful), a lot of heatsinks, and a lot of armor. Move at about 65 kph. I just take a bit of damage sometimes but I don't need to worry about piloting quickly or skill with poptarts. Just a bit of positioning and caution. Sometimes we lose. Sometimes we win. Sometimes I get kills.

Edited by gooddragon1, 07 October 2017 - 08:02 PM.

[Jun Watarase]

This is why QP is harder than playing the game with a premade team...your team in QP isnt going to tell you anything most of the time, will be looking in the wrong direction, chase squirrels or just nascar. You have to be prepared to do everything yourself and cover yourself, because your team won't cover you.

[ApolloKaras]

Jun Watarase, on 07 October 2017 - 07:28 PM, said:

This is why QP is harder than playing the game with a premade team...your team in QP isnt going to tell you anything most of the time, will be looking in the wrong direction, chase squirrels or just nascar. You have to be prepared to do everything yourself and cover yourself, because your team won't cover you.

This. You have to look out for number one. Yourself.

[Kiiyor]

gooddragon1, on 07 October 2017 - 10:21 AM, said:

Is It Wrong To Take An Every Man For Himself Strat For Qplay?

Yes and No. I'm leaning farmore towards No.

You need to have the right set of expectations. Expecting anyone in a PUG to do anything but act in their own interests is just setting yourself up for frustration.

“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles.

If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat.

If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”

Let me explain: a PUG team isn't a team. A PUG is a herd animal - and it's also your enemy - just less so than the enemy enemy. It's a random collection of mechwarriors thrown together, all with the same agenda (winning), but with differing approaches to achieve it.

The only thing you can, and SHOULD count on your pugmates to do, is point their shooty bits at the enemy. You should never make a plan that hinges on your teammates being brave.

There's some on my friends list who drop mostly in groups, and they are almost all universally frustrated when they drop in a PUG. There are tactics and strategies that work fantastically well in the group queue, but are often the death knell for you and the rest of your group if you try to convince your herd to adopt them.

"Ugh, if they would only push, we'd win"
"Why don't they group up?"
"We should have helped that dude!"

In fact, i'd go as far as to say that if you bring team mindset to a pug, you can actually be a detriment to yourself and the 11 other strangers who are only really following you because the little triangles over your names are the same colour.

The way to victory in a PUG is to secure your own skin first, but in a way that benefits the group also. Sort of a "what's in it for me?" approach. You need to learn how to be a good herd animal.

I originally typed out a tonne of examples, but i'm just going to use this, which I think is the #1 time you should stop and think "what's in it for me?" when someone calls for it in a PUG:

"WE SHOULD PUSH"

Heh, it's the 'OK everyone, time to be brave!' moment that I dread in most fights.

"Assaults, get to the front, dammit, WE SHOULD PUSH!"
"We're up 4-2 WE SHOULD PUSH"
"They're eating us, WE SHOULD PUSH"

First, take a look at your team. How many of them are calling for a push? One? It's usually one. Are they actually near the frontline as they call for it? Is your team in a deathball? And are they going to follow you if the opposition is heavy? WERE THERE ANY AFFIRMATIVES? 98.75% of the time, the answer is a big fat NO, and you're about to lose.

"But Kiiyor, pushes ALWAYS win!"

Yes. Except when they don't. A decent firing line will eat a PUG push for breakfast, all day, every day, because firing from cover is a PUG player's jam. It's their natural habitat. Their comfort zone. THEIR LAWN.

Usually, the only people prepared to commit to a push are those calling for it, and even then, they probably won't.

So here's my rule; COUNT THEM.

If there's 3 or more, that's usually enough critical mass. If there's less than three, and there's silence after they talk, then you should still support them... just do it cautiously. From cover. With an escape plan in place. You'll be doing the survivors a favor.

Despite the number of players who hold up the push as the holy grail of battle tactics, i've seen far more PUG fights won because my herd took advantage of their natural patience timidity, and broke the enemy first with better trades.

Edited by Kiiyor, 07 October 2017 - 07:40 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Kiiyor, on 07 October 2017 - 07:40 PM, said:

The only thing you can, and SHOULD count on your pugmates to do, is point their shooty bits at the enemy. You should never make a plan that hinges on your teammates being brave.

You expect too much

[Kiiyor]

Mcgral18, on 07 October 2017 - 07:54 PM, said:

You expect too much

I'm a PUG optimist. The glass is half full...

...but I bet one of my bloody teammates will spill it anyway.

[Bombast]

Kiiyor, on 07 October 2017 - 07:40 PM, said:

The only thing you can, and SHOULD count on your pugmates to do, is point their shooty bits at the enemy.

In my experience, the only thing you can trust a pug to do is point their shooty bits at the corner of the cover they found 30 seconds into the match, in the expectation that, one day, an enemy will come there for them to shoot.

Quote

You should never make a plan that hinges on your teammates being brave.

No, but I found begging in team chat actually works sometimes when it comes to getting people to move.

Edited by Bombast, 07 October 2017 - 07:58 PM.

[gooddragon1]

Bombast, on 07 October 2017 - 07:58 PM, said:

In my experience, the only thing you can trust a pug to do is point their shooty bits at the corner of the cover they found 30 seconds into the match, in the expectation that, one day, an enemy will come there for them to shoot.

How did you know my secret strategy? Well that's only part of it. I wait for an enemy who has gone behind cover to come out. Like fishing. Patience.

But its what I love about QP. Not really all that tactical.

Edited by gooddragon1, 07 October 2017 - 08:02 PM.

[Kiiyor]

Bombast, on 07 October 2017 - 07:58 PM, said:

In my experience, the only thing you can trust a pug to do is point their shooty bits at the corner of the cover they found 30 seconds into the match, in the expectation that, one day, an enemy will come there for them to shoot.



No, but I found begging in team chat actually works sometimes when it comes to getting people to move.

Yep. That's my rule though: count the brave people. If there's more silence than brave, rethink your moves. The herd's silence is often louder than those actually talking.

[Novakaine]

Bombast, on 07 October 2017 - 07:58 PM, said:

In my experience, the only thing you can trust a pug to do is point their shooty bits at the corner of the cover they found 30 seconds into the match, in the expectation that, one day, an enemy will come there for them to shoot.



No, but I found begging in team chat actually works sometimes when it comes to getting people to move.

I find harsh words tend to wok better.

[gooddragon1]

Novakaine, on 07 October 2017 - 08:06 PM, said:

I find harsh words tend to wok better.

Soy sauce and mixed vegetables wok best though.

[Bombast]

Novakaine, on 07 October 2017 - 08:06 PM, said:

I find harsh words tend to wok better.

I try not to get negative when I can. I rarely see it work, and my blood pressure is bad enough without me 'baiting' myself by being a ****.

Unrelated, another thing that doesn't work: Typing 'FIGHT GOD DAMN IT' while you're at 98% heat, trying to hold off a flanking maneuver by yourself when there are 8 friendly mechs within 100 meters of you, all camping the same (And wrong) corner, rarely gets results, but I'm not sure what else to type when I'm in a blind panic and getting pounded to scrap.

Also unrelated, dropping an arty strike on your own team often does get results (But you shouldn't do it, if for no other reason that when it doesn't work, you've basically killed your team). This is just an observation, not a suggestion.

Edited by Bombast, 07 October 2017 - 08:12 PM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Tarogato, on 07 October 2017 - 05:58 PM, said:

In my opinion, "every man for himself" is the only way to play solo QP. If you expect anything more than that, you're only setting yourself up for disappointment.

But I suppose many of us differ on what it means to be "every man for himself." The way I treat it... I consider myself the only mech on the field that is capable of winning the match for my team. So self-preservation is my #1 priority, and quickly killing the enemy is my other #1 priority. After all, you can't kill the enemy at all if you're dead, and you can't kill the enemy in a timely manner if you're just hiding in the back. So you have to balance aggression with passivity. Always be the last guy on your team to die in a match... but always be the first guy to deal damage and get a kill in that same match - don't count on your teammates to make early plays for you, you need to get your own hands dirty.

Exactly my thoughts on it. I know I'm pretty good at the game, and I've seen some people on my team who are utterly terrible at the game, so I'll trust myself to carry the team to victory more than the next guy.