160 replies to this topic

[Dogstar]

poopenshire, on 08 October 2017 - 10:50 AM, said:

[mod]

If you see a TK or believe was a TK, report to support. Please use the in game reporting tool.

As a last resort you may use the following:

moderation@mwomercs.com
support@mwomercs.com


Thanks for your attention

Edit: I am not locking this, its always a good reminder to just report it using the in game tool. If you don't report it, people will never know its going on.

[/mod]

@poopenshire - The game would be a lot friendlier if there was no friendly fire - maybe you could suggest it to the devs

[Cy Mitchell]

Dogstar, on 08 October 2017 - 12:29 PM, said:

@poopenshire - The game would be a lot friendlier if there was no friendly fire - maybe you could suggest it to the devs

Not in favor of this, personally.

[Tarl Cabot]

Rampage, on 08 October 2017 - 12:36 PM, said:

Not in favor of this, personally.

I would go for only doing 50% weapon damage to teammates.

[Void Angel]

OldOrgandonor, on 08 October 2017 - 11:27 AM, said:

Locking threads about this subject and not discussing or pursuing options to fix serial team killers is asinine.

By PGI burying their heads in the sand and pretending the problem doesn't exist, does not make the problem not exist.

Locking this thread will not solve anything. Locking the other thread (that's still on the front page) about this didn't fix anything either.

PGI, just for once, stop being PGI.

... You realize that moderation has already been here and not locked the thread, right? Most likely, threads on this topic get locked because of violations of the CoC, not the subject itself. The name-and-shame policy is normally the culprit - and, to be fair, sometimes misapplied.

[Unnatural Growth]

Void Angel, on 08 October 2017 - 12:49 PM, said:

... You realize that moderation has already been here and not locked the thread, right? Most likely, threads on this topic get locked because of violations of the CoC, not the subject itself. The name-and-shame policy is normally the culprit - and, to be fair, sometimes misapplied.

You realize that "moderation" locked the other thread that's still on the front page for none of the above, right?

[poopenshire]

OldOrgandonor, on 08 October 2017 - 01:02 PM, said:

You realize that "moderation" locked the other thread that's still on the front page for none of the above, right?

It was, those posts were cleaned up. and it made a mess, which is why this one is being left alone. Its clean and I will try my darndest to keep that way. Several other Mods are going to help keep it clean and keep it open.

[SeventhSL]

Last night I had a friendly deliberately stand right in front of me. Line me up and then head shoot me. I'm guessing he really wanted that head shot challenge and was willing to try anything. In the past I've also been accidentally head shot while retreating back to my team in a light.

Team damage happens and no automated penalty system is ever going to be 100% because they can't discern between diliberate and accidental. You simply can't expect that every reported action will be double checked by PGI. It would just cost way to much to have humans monitor this.

My suggestion is that players use shadow play or similar. If you can provide evidence PGI will act.

Edited by SeventhSL, 08 October 2017 - 02:15 PM.

[poopenshire]

Ok, I can see several suggestions here.

let me see if I got this right so far.


1. Autoban if a TK In the first 60 seconds of battle.
a. Instalocking an account after garnering two Friendly KMDDs in the same match
2. No friendly fire - is this time limited to the start only, or is it for the first 25 matches as a cadet?
3. Reduced friendly fire - same questions as above.
4. VIdeo Submission for shadowplay or other recordings.
5. Require all new accounts to attain a passing score on every MW Academy tutorial before being allowed to drop into an actual match.
6. https://mwomercs.com...ost__p__5912482




Is this correct so far?

Edit: added #6

Edited by poopenshire, 08 October 2017 - 05:19 PM.

[James Argent]

There's also 5. Require all new accounts to attain a passing score on every MW Academy tutorial before being allowed to drop into an actual match.

Edit: 'New accounts' should be understood to mean accounts with zero existing drops, because the TKers already have hundreds of existing accounts.

Edited by James Argent, 08 October 2017 - 03:18 PM.

[Chortles]

What if they added KMDD for team kills? If a friendly did more damage than an enemy to a mech after it has been destroyed it is counted as a team kill with intent thus receiving a stiffer penalty (five times higher for example). Multiple team kills in a short period results in suspension or a ban.

This may make it easier for PGI to differentiate an accidental team kill with an intentional team kill while keeping it automated.

[Trenchbird]

Instalocking an account after garnering two Friendly KMDDs in the same match sounds good.

Edited by Catten Hart, 08 October 2017 - 03:39 PM.

[Unnatural Growth]

poopenshire, on 08 October 2017 - 02:44 PM, said:

Ok, I can see several suggestions here.

let me see if I got this right so far.


1. Autoban if a TK In the first 60 seconds of battle.
2. No friendly fire - is this time limited to the start only, or is it for the first 25 matches as a cadet?
3. Reduced friendly fire - same questions as above.
4. VIdeo Submission for shadowplay or other recordings.
5. Require all new accounts to attain a passing score on every MW Academy tutorial before being allowed to drop into an actual match.


Is this correct so far?

Edit: added #5

I admit, my suggestion is a bit more complex than most:

That's why my suggestion is if you do ANY OF THE THREE:

1. Team damage in first 30-45 seconds of match.

2. A certain amount (use common game stats via PGI) of team damage over the course of the entire match.

3. More than 1 team kill in a 24 hr period.

If you do ANY ONE of these 3 things, it triggers:

1. Turns off friendly fire damage. You can't hurt any team mate.

2. Turns off penalty to team mates who kill you. Your team can kill you with impunity.

3. Turns your mech a bright glowing color (say orange or whatever) that everyone in game can see.

4. Changes your in game title to TK-TROLL. Everyone in game will know who you are and what you've been doing.

This "penalty" is not a ban. But it lasts for 100 consecutive matches. No cooldown timer. On your 101st match, everything is back to "normal". But if you do it again, it all starts over again.

I'm for an auto penalty, but not an auto ban. You can still play, you can still fire on and damage ENEMY mechs, just not your own team mates.

[Rick T Dangerous]

OldOrgandonor, on 08 October 2017 - 11:45 AM, said:

These guys are mass generating accounts by the hundreds. You can't think of it as "banning them will fix it". They don't blink an eye at getting one of their 100's of active accounts banned, they just move right on down to the next account and press on.

In one of the locked threads it was mentioned that those accounts are generated by bots, so most of the accounts were created within a narrow time frame. In other threads about this topic it was mentioned that the names of the troll accounts follow certain patterns. And we can assume that no money was invested in these accounts. So we got some clues on how those trolls and most of their accounts can be identified and banned:

• Pattern of the names
  
• Similar time and date of creation
  
• No purchases

In addition they most likely use similar or identical passwords for their accounts. I don't understand much about programming and stuff like that, but I guess it's possible to write something to compare the passwords of accounts that commited TKs and fit the above mentioned three points without any person getting the exact information on what those passwords are.

[Scout Derek]

OldOrgandonor, on 08 October 2017 - 04:52 PM, said:

I admit, my suggestion is a bit more complex than most:

That's why my suggestion is if you do ANY OF THE THREE:

1. Team damage in first 30-45 seconds of match.

2. A certain amount (use common game stats via PGI) of team damage over the course of the entire match.

3. More than 1 team kill in a 24 hr period.

If you do ANY ONE of these 3 things, it triggers:

1. Turns off friendly fire damage. You can't hurt any team mate.

2. Turns off penalty to team mates who kill you. Your team can kill you with impunity.

3. Turns your mech a bright glowing color (say orange or whatever) that everyone in game can see.

4. Changes your in game title to TK-TROLL. Everyone in game will know who you are and what you've been doing.

This "penalty" is not a ban. But it lasts for 100 consecutive matches. No cooldown timer. On your 101st match, everything is back to "normal". But if you do it again, it all starts over again.

I'm for an auto penalty, but not an auto ban. You can still play, you can still fire on and damage ENEMY mechs, just not your own team mates.

What you should come to realize that if you want feedback in this forum, asking a Volunteer mod, is not the best way to do it, and I highlight Volunteer because they are here voluntarily to help moderate the forums, they are not developers, nor do they have any change of the actual game. doing so can lead to a unnecessary bias and stupidity (I'm sure some of you know already from a year back). perhaps forums functions, but that's about it. If you want true feedback, you can tweet Russ himself or go make a post in the feature forums found here.

Edited by Scout Derek, 08 October 2017 - 06:01 PM.

[InvictusLee]

Why do we have friendly fire in the first place?
Why do we care if its removed completely?
Lore be damned, why are we so stuck on this issue?
This is worst than congress on healthcare.

Lets just remove it completely and be done with the issue.

[Scout Derek]

November11th, on 08 October 2017 - 06:12 PM, said:

Why do we have friendly fire in the first place?
Why do we care if its removed completely?
Lore be damned, why are we so stuck on this issue?
This is worst than congress on healthcare.

Lets just remove it completely and be done with the issue.

Because it's a game that involves teamwork?

I guess you could turn off FF, but keep it on in FP/Comp que.

[InvictusLee]

Scout Derek, on 08 October 2017 - 06:23 PM, said:

Because it's a game that involves teamwork?

How does team work involve you shooting your friend in the back by accident?
Or airstriking your own team mates?
Why punish us at all for accidents?

I feel like the friendly fire system has no real, discernible reason to exist.
Its just another way of saying "ohh ****, you need to work on your aim".

In fact, as the system stands, it only encourages TKs because its closer to how real war games are played.

Edited by November11th, 08 October 2017 - 06:27 PM.

[poopenshire]

Scout Derek, on 08 October 2017 - 05:58 PM, said:

What you should come to realize that if you want feedback in this forum, asking a Volunteer mod, is not the best way to do it, and I highlight Volunteer because they are here voluntarily to help moderate the forums, they are not developers, nor do they have any change of the actual game. doing so can lead to a unnecessary bias and stupidity (I'm sure some of you know already from a year back). perhaps forums functions, but that's about it. If you want true feedback, you can tweet Russ himself or go make a post in the feature forums found here.

Derek,

While your right, I am hoping that by being active in this, and helping organize it that there is a defined simple to read thread that can be tweeted to the right people. I hate seeing how good topics get rekt by bad posts. There is no reason we cannot try to keep it open as long as we can and have in an organized format. Sometimes its not about where its posted, you can always link to it, its how its posted that makes a difference.

Poop

[Void Angel]

poopenshire, on 08 October 2017 - 02:44 PM, said:

1. Autoban if a TK In the first 60 seconds of battle.
2. No friendly fire - is this time limited to the start only, or is it for the first 25 matches as a cadet?

These two solutions are the ones that I find interesting - particularly the cadet no friendly fire option. Making prospective trolls go through 25 matches will definitely put a crimp in their plans by making them do more work to team kill than they can cost other players before being banned. As a corollary, a participation/match score requirement may need to be added (so they don't juat AFK troll before team killing.)

Another thing that The Powers That Be should consider, if you can get it to them: While subjective experiences are seldom authoritative, they can (like wikipedia in college writing) occasionally be cited if used properly. MY subjective experience is that there's hardly a need for anti-teamkilling measures, because it's a nonproblem in my matches. This is obviously not the experience of many players in lower tiers, which is very concerning. Remember those inconsolably angry people who got the topic of MWO banned from Star Citizen's forums, and engaged on a laughably ineffective disinformation campaign during the Steam launch? Well, apparently they don't have any productive hobbies; this smells like revolving troll accounts from a small number of unspanked children on a mission...

[Void Angel]

November11th, on 08 October 2017 - 06:26 PM, said:

I feel like the friendly fire system has no real, discernible reason to exist.
Its just another way of saying "ohh ****, you need to work on your aim".

Friendly fire increases immersion and allows more tactical depth - like using an enemy Assault for LRM cover in a Locust. It makes the game feel more real, while requiring players to take the game's world more seriously. Both of these things are good, but friendly fire also allows people to peck and teamkill if countermeasures aren't in place. It speaks well of MWO's player base that this isn't a problem in general, but the specific problem needs to be addressed - particularly since it seems to be directly targeted at the new player experience in yet another attempt to choke the game.