41 replies to this topic

[CK16]

So idk why we keep seeing as of lately (from might I add the same select individuals!) Ranting and throwing the forums into a frenzy over the old Clan v IS balance discussion (that hardly ever leads to good ideas and only bickering!)

But a reminder, shortly after Civil War dropped for a good month almost, the IS had pushed deep into Clan territory, so far to get to the Clan Pentagon worlds!

Now idk what caused them to be counter attacked back so far, but last I recall.....not much in nerfs/buffs have been done since (only 2 patches since really...)

So how did you guys go from being on the offensive winning many planets to throwing in the towel whining about Balance? Didn't see a word back then saying it was imbalanced back then when you were kicking Clan ***?


TL:DR Maybe it's more an issue of merc balance rather then tech balance?!

Edited by CK16, 16 October 2017 - 05:19 AM.

[Athom83]

Why? Because IS was using their new tech in FW while the clams at the time were refusing to use theirs because, and I quote from several clams in FW on CW release; "They are utter garbage and absolutely useless in an actual fight". Now, after a few months have gone bye, the new tech has finally been permeating through the FW clam shells as the good weapons they are.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

The reason for the FP status change was so many good big units switched to IS to test it out.

The normal status of IS getting hammered is not entirely because of these big good units, but they are one factor.

[Rovertoo]

My theory is that its a bit of both. If I remember right, the devs want clans to win ~55% of engagments and IS ~45%, and in QP that holds pretty true, the tech imbalance is pretty minor overall. But because of that 5% disparity all of the merc groups, wanting to win, go to clan. I know its a super hot-button way to describe it, but clans are "easier" than IS, even if by a small margin, so all the merc groups go there, leaving IS with very very very few large groups. From personal experience Ive never been matched with a 6—8 man group or larger while playing IS, I see it all the time on clan sides.

My personal favorite balancing idea is to make FP 12 IS vs 10 clans, and just bump up clan deck tonnage limits. Seeing as IS hasnt won an event in recent memory, and FP is supposed to be "lorish" I feel this would be a suitable fix.

[Battlemaster56]

I blame the introduction of 3 new clans without adding new IS factions to counter it out, now with huge bonuses on the clan side to abuse for all their glory, theirs no way that small remaining IS loyalist and solo warriors can do. And to put it out there, the tech balance is really not much of a deciding factor FW it's purely coordination and strategy that wins battles.

To even out the merc orgyfest in the 3 new clans to add 3 or 4 periphery states to balance out merc influx into one bucket(lol), then their will be a even distribution of mercs in both IS and Clans seeing that the new factions have bonuses that attract them to.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Battlemaster56, on 16 October 2017 - 05:04 AM, said:

To even out the merc orgyfest in the 3 new clans to add 3 or 4 periphery states to balance out merc influx into one bucket(lol), then their will be a even distribution of mercs in both IS and Clans seeing that the new factions have bonuses that attract them to.

Perhaps start with the St. Ives Compact?

[Composite Armour]

Let's restrict mercs to IS factions only.

For a laugh.

[Bombast]

Jay Leon Hart, on 16 October 2017 - 05:34 AM, said:

Perhaps start with the St. Ives Compact?

Or ComStar...

[CK16]

Composite Armour, on 16 October 2017 - 05:37 AM, said:

Let's restrict mercs to IS factions only.

For a laugh.

Then it would be a repeat of FW phase 2 xD (No Clans able to move off thier starting planets, in fact pushed back to a very few lol, really though, never saw a Spheroid complain about balance when they were kicking our *** back the either.) But joking aside there is definitely an issue with merc balance right now. Idk how to handle it but mercs should be used to even the sides, not all flock to one side or another and drastically tip the scales so unevenly

[Battlemaster56]

Bombast, on 16 October 2017 - 05:42 AM, said:

Or ComStar...

Space Wizard FTW!!!

Jay Leon Hart, on 16 October 2017 - 05:34 AM, said:

Perhaps start with the St. Ives Compact?

Explain that one to me please I'm not knees deep into BT lore just read a few summaries here and there from Sarna when bored.

[Battlemaster56]

CK16, on 16 October 2017 - 05:42 AM, said:

Then it would be a repeat of FW phase 2 xD (No Clans able to move off thier starting planets, in fact pushed back to a very few lol, really though, never saw a Spheroid complain about balance when they were kicking our *** back the either.) But joking aside there is definitely an issue with merc balance right now. Idk how to handle it but mercs should be used to even the sides, not all flock to one side or another and drastically tip the scales so unevenly

The only way to balance out the massive MERC Houses is with even more powerful clans!!!

I suggest Clan Fire Mandrill they'll totally crush the petty MERC Houses with ease!!



Let's pour our support to this beautiful clan!!!

[Thorn Hallis]

Snowball effect. One or two big merc units switch sides, the other units will follow. FP isn't the place to determin Clan/IS balance .

[Y E O N N E]

The very fact that there is a 25 ton advantage per player for one side, that persisted even through the early CW release period, tells you all you need to know about tech balance. The rest is mercs and lopsided rewards.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 16 October 2017 - 06:03 AM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Battlemaster56, on 16 October 2017 - 05:43 AM, said:

Explain that one to me please I'm not knees deep into BT lore just read a few summaries here and there from Sarna when bored.

Oh I have no idea, either, it just looks like a good candidate.

It stops being a thing in 3063, but Clan smoke Jaguar was/is annihilated in 3060 and Clan Ghost Bear merges with the Free Rasalhague Republic in 3060 to form the Ghost Bear Rasalhague Dominion, so I think we can give the St. Ives Compact a pass.

[Asym]

Thorn Hallis, on 16 October 2017 - 05:47 AM, said:

Snowball effect. One or two big merc units switch sides, the other units will follow. FP isn't the place to determin Clan/IS balance .

This is correct. A small population can shift balance quite easily.... If you only have say 1000 players in a game and 300 of them switch sides for events, technology gains or curiousity, a 800 to 200 is not a balance.

MWO can not sustain any changes that shift populations as events sometimes do and we see large match quality differences or wait times because, literally, no one is there.......

[El Bandito]

Battlemaster56, on 16 October 2017 - 05:04 AM, said:

And to put it out there, the tech balance is really not much of a deciding factor FW it's purely coordination and strategy that wins battles.

Nah, tech imbalance is what attracted highly competent units such as EVIL to Clans in the first place. I dare them to go IS loyalist to prove me otherwise.

[Athom83]

El Bandito, on 16 October 2017 - 06:14 AM, said:

Nah, tech imbalance is what attracted highly competent units such as EVIL to Clans in the first place. I dare them to go IS loyalist to prove me otherwise.

And drop their K/D by a tiny percentage point? How dare you, the nerve of such a suggestion.

[SeventhSL]

You are correct CK16.

The faction map looks the way it does due to Mercs. It always has since the introduction of Community Warfare. If they all swapped to IS the map would be reversed. Organised teams beat PUG. Not sure what else to say.

In my opinion you won't see real balance until they control Mercs and fix some fundemental game mechanics that utterly favour high alpha poke game play.

I mean come on... even with all the big Mercs playing Clan and all the IS home world captured or under siege you can still get luctritive contracts with Clan. The system is just broken.

Seems everyone is way to obsessed with giving IS a clone of the Clan Tech base to consider anything else. You can't have asymmetric balance while the game mechanics favour all of one factions strengths and penalise the other. Something as simple as an accuracy mechanic could provide a down side to speed and alpha strikes. I'm looking at you Clan. LRMs are just sitting there begging to be made more viable in competitive play. If, instead of punishing noobs in the open, they countered cover which defeats line of sight weapons they'd shake up the poke and be a valuable part of any competitive team.

IS don't need Clan tech they just need mechanics that hamper Clan mechs from delivering huge alpha strikes with pin point accuracy and hiding in cover to cool down.

[Battlemaster56]

Jay Leon Hart, on 16 October 2017 - 06:07 AM, said:

Oh I have no idea, either, it just looks like a good candidate.

It stops being a thing in 3063, but Clan smoke Jaguar was/is annihilated in 3060 and Clan Ghost Bear merges with the Free Rasalhague Republic in 3060 to form the Ghost Bear Rasalhague Dominion, so I think we can give the St. Ives Compact a pass.

Yea we can add them they have a nice lore background all the way to the Clan Invasion, and add Wolf in Exile and Rasalhague Dominion as IS factions that uniquely use Clan Tech, but I be very weary on that decision of adding what I suggested.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

FW doesn't really care about tech balance at all, it cares about player skill balance. Whoever has the most mercs wins.