242 replies to this topic

[Nema Nabojiv]

Lol, turned out artemis was op and needed nerf.

I do welcome dakka and agility buffs though, but artemis and lurms nerf, seriously?

[Natred]

Lets see, lets nerf things like lasers and srms that require skill to use. woo now we just spam ballstics. anything over 3 second cool down is above and beyond viabliltiy.

Edited by Natred, 14 October 2017 - 10:58 AM.

[Vancer2]

I wouldn't worry too much about this game OR Mechwarrior 5. They removed the market to buy single variants so you can only buy individual variants of a mech. JUST LIKE MWO! Its like they don't know what Battletech is.... Microsoft please remove PGI's license.

[Mechrophilia]

Johnny Z, on 14 October 2017 - 09:27 AM, said:

No one likes my idea of adding a delay before the CERML fires like the rotary cannon?? I think its funny but I am not really kidding.

If I had been on the design team when clans were introduced, I would have allowed clans to have far superior lasers, but their duration would increase quite a bit with each additional laser fired.

[OrmsbyGore]

Natred, on 14 October 2017 - 10:57 AM, said:

Lets see, lets nerf things like lasers and srms that require skill to use. woo now we just spam ballstics. anything over 3 second cool down is above and beyond viabliltiy.

Lasers aren't skill weapons, aiming is as simple as point and click; ballistics and non-lock missiles require you to make distance and speed calculations on the fly.

Also, can we all stop acting surprised? PGI has made it clear that their vision for this game is long range encounters from opposite ends of the map. Just look at the travesty that frozen city became. The only move that shocked me recently was when they lumped ppcs and gauss into the same ghost heat group, but I should've seen it coming: ppc/gauss requires skill and anticipation to be effective, whereas lasers have no such limitations.

[Nema Nabojiv]

Vancer2, on 14 October 2017 - 10:58 AM, said:

They removed the market to buy single variants so you can only buy individual variants of a mech. JUST LIKE MWO! Its like they don't know what Battletech is.... Microsoft please remove PGI's license.

No offence but its more like you dont know what battletech is. Just check sarna or something.

[Lord0fHats]

That map, when you finally realize that even the small amount of fun you have in a game is no longer worthwhile, and the dumpster fire that is the developer is so inept that the best thing you can possible do is just leave and never come back.

*checks map*

Yep. We're there.

[Felbombling]

The best performing Mechs I have are all Laser Vomit. I remember people complaining on these very forums that something has to be done about Laser Vomit. It appears that PGI tried to do something about Laser Vomit. OK!

/cue the complaining

[Tlords]

The salt flowing from reducing the damage of over-performing weapons, amazes me. Low weight, ability to boat, and with one trigger pull being able to 60-80 damage into a mech is what's causing the time delay. Yes you can torso twist to spread the damage. It's still alot of damage. The Ebon Jaguar can run 2 ERML, 4 MPL and 2 HLL (78 damage). With 2 shots you can core most mechs center torso. It's a 65 tone mech. If you think that's ok and healthy for the game - in its current state - your ridiculous.

PGI did not alter the damage. You can still do 78 pts of damage per trigger pull. PGI just made it easier for mechs that are not packing laser vomit to kill you.

The game will adapt, and I am happy to see where it goes.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Felbombling, on 14 October 2017 - 01:23 PM, said:

The best performing Mechs I have are all Laser Vomit. I remember people complaining on these very forums that something has to be done about Laser Vomit. It appears that PGI tried to do something about Laser Vomit. OK!

/cue the complaining

The problem being they didn't to anything to really "fix" laser vomit, in fact they made it even more worthwhile. By making lasers less capable of sustained DPS, they're pushing them further into the high Alpha, long cooldown realm of laser vomit.

Tlords, on 14 October 2017 - 01:34 PM, said:

The salt flowing from reducing the damage of over-performing weapons, amazes me. Low weight, ability to boat, and with one trigger pull being able to 60-80 damage into a mech is what's causing the time delay.

PGI did not alter the damage. You can still do 78 pts of damage per trigger pull. PGI just made it easier for mechs that are not packing laser vomit to kill you.

Like you said, they didn't touch the damage and they didn't really change how effective laser vomit is, they just made lasers less useful for anything besides laser vomit or Gauss vomit. If anything, PGI just buffed laser vomit by proxy.

[FupDup]

Tlords, on 14 October 2017 - 01:34 PM, said:

The salt flowing from reducing the damage of over-performing weapons, amazes me. Low weight, ability to boat, and with one trigger pull being able to 60-80 damage into a mech is what's causing the time delay.

Yeah, those damn over-performing Small and Micro lasers.

[Mr Snrub]

Tlords, on 14 October 2017 - 01:34 PM, said:

The salt flowing from reducing the damage of over-performing weapons, amazes me. Low weight, ability to boat, and with one trigger pull being able to 60-80 damage into a mech is what's causing the time delay. Yes you can torso twist to spread the damage. It's still alot of damage. The Ebon Jaguar can run 2 ERML, 4 MPL and 2 HLL (78 damage). With 2 shots you can core most mechs center torso. It's a 65 tone mech. If you think that's ok and healthy for the game - in its current state - your ridiculous.

PGI did not alter the damage. You can still do 78 pts of damage per trigger pull. PGI just made it easier for mechs that are not packing laser vomit to kill you.

The game will adapt, and I am happy to see where it goes.

Yes, ginormous (Clan) Alphas of 70,80 points at long ranges were the problem people complained about.

Longer cooldowns don't change anything about them. No idea why you're 'happy to see where it goes'.

[Steve Pryde]

What would happen if all lasers would be linked by ghost heat (maybe exclude micro and small lasers from that)? We never had that in MWO or?

[Dryderian]

Mr Snrub, on 14 October 2017 - 01:52 PM, said:

Yes, ginormous (Clan) Alphas of 70,80 points at long ranges were the problem people complained about.

Longer cooldowns don't change anything about them. No idea why you're 'happy to see where it goes'.

Clans have longer ranges on their lasers, that is why you often see red yellow and blue and all is hitting you.So yes, Clans with their alphas will give a **** about this patch. But we all know, their fighting code prohibits them from fighting without honor, so they would not alpha you and hide again to cooldown .

Edited by Dryderian, 14 October 2017 - 02:26 PM.

[BrunoSSace]

All this means is now I have to use Snub nose ppc or large lasers on every thing.

[Vxheous]

Col Jaime Wolf, on 14 October 2017 - 10:48 AM, said:

why are people complaining? you got exactly what you asked for

now deathstrike cant be p2w because lasers are gonna suck ahahahaha.

Deathstrike will play exactly the same post patch. Most times you waited for the gauss to be off cooldown b4 poking out/heat limited for the massive alpha. Now the CERML cooldown will just line up to that.

[Judah Malganis]

If anything, they should make a clear distinction between smaller lasers and the larger ones by making small lasers low-damage, fast-cycling DPS-pressure weapons while making large lasers high-alpha, low-DPS weapons. Maybe they think that by slowing down all lasers, they'll encourage cycling in-battle, but in reality, it will only encourage more vomit-pokes and hill-humping while people wait out their cooldowns, and really hurts aggressive light play.

The Artemis changes are weird. I agree that it's a way to funnel people into spending points in the Tree. I bet they'll drop them to 25% so even with investment you don't get back to where you were used to be before tree changes.

I'm not sure I blame the devs solely for the changes. There are top-tier players who have good working relationships with the devs, and have a certain vision of what this game should be. It seems they prefer long-range/poke meta and the devs take their ideas very seriously.

Edited by Judah Malganis, 14 October 2017 - 02:54 PM.

[JC Daxion]

Jun Watarase, on 14 October 2017 - 06:09 AM, said:

The problem is, the nerfs dont address laser vomit at all and hurts non-laser vomit builds. The problem with laser vomit has always been the fact that its hitscan, some lasers have very low burn durations effectively making spread minimal to non-existent, and the fact that you can do massive alphas with them. Oh and the fact that laser vomit builds are actually as heat efficient as mixed laser/ballistic builds because you can cram more DHS into mechs. Nerfing their DPS is simply failing to recognize why laser vomit is used in the first place, and that's because they don't play their own game and cannot be bothered to take 5 mins out of their workday to ask someone why laser vomit is used.

Your acting like double high laser alpha's with Coolshot is not a thing. Fast re-charaging 2 alpha lasers is a thing, that needs a bit of addressing. Decreasing the speed at which you can do it is an option.


I play a bunch of IS energy lights, I will certainly be trying them after this goes live.



I do think both clan and IS medium hitscan duration could be increased as well, But buff ML damage a little. I don't think Smalls need an increase, they only got a tiny bit of cooldown increase anyway, barely enough time to twist..


I am also not against just adding all energy into the ghost heat grouping meaning just one big lump, and balance the energy through that. It already groups medium and small and one issue these days are people getting around it with super high alpha's which is part of this whole problem.




I do think the way this is making Pulse more of a DPS, verse Lasers being a higher burn/damage weapon is also a step in the right direction and something that people have been begging for a very long time.

PS, PPC's got a buff in the way of velocity increase node boost.





YAY ALAS, DIRE mobility buff! Maybe next patch you can toss in the Highlander too, and give it a JJ perk! I wan't to see that mech on the field again

Edited by JC Daxion, 14 October 2017 - 03:06 PM.

[FupDup]

JC Daxion, on 14 October 2017 - 03:02 PM, said:

Your acting like double high laser alpha's with Coolshot is not a thing. Fast re-charaging 2 alpha lasers is a thing, that needs a bit of addressing. Decreasing the speed at which you can do it is an option.

Coolant flush nodes in the skill tree recently got nerfed a bit, and I really think it's a stupid idea to balance lasers around the assumption that the user is always using coolant. That's not a laser problem, that's a coolant flush problem. Go for the disease instead of the symptom.

JC Daxion, on 14 October 2017 - 03:02 PM, said:

I do think the medium hitscan duration could be increased as well. I don't think Smalls need an increase.

Wait, do you actually think that the IS Medium needs a longer burn time?

JC Daxion, on 14 October 2017 - 03:02 PM, said:

I do think the way this is making Pulse more of a DPS, verse Lasers being a higher burn/damage weapon is also a step in the right direction and something that people have been begging for a very long time.

Pulse lasers are mechanically still an alpha-focused weapon. They just alpha a little bit faster than regular/ER lasers.

Look at games like MW3, MW4, MA, etc. for examples of true DPS-based pulses.

[MadRover]

Yep. Time to cancel preorders in disgust of recent patch. Not going to support a company that is this ignorant.