242 replies to this topic

[Mr Snrub]

Well, the Grasshopper needed the nerf.

I saw one of the 89 heavies used in the WC tourney was indeed a Grasshopper and we can't have a single IS medium, heavy or assault sullying that Clan fest.

[Jun Watarase]

SPNKRGrenth, on 14 October 2017 - 01:48 AM, said:

I don't know about you guys, but I for one like the large PPC buffs we're getting this patch. Running a Snub Nose PPC or 2 is going to mean something now.

What PPC buffs?

Mr Snrub, on 14 October 2017 - 02:00 AM, said:

Well, the Grasshopper needed the nerf.

I saw one of the 89 heavies used in the WC tourney was indeed a Grasshopper and we can't have a single IS medium, heavy or assault sullying that Clan fest.

Tournaments are dominated by long range laser alphas. If you had a tournament played on brawl maps only and gave IS teams a tonnage advantage you would be seeing way more IS teams.

Actually if you just gave IS teams a 10 ton advantage per player in tournaments i bet you would see way more IS mechs too.

Edited by Jun Watarase, 14 October 2017 - 02:20 AM.

[The Mysterious Fox]

Jun Watarase, on 14 October 2017 - 02:17 AM, said:

What PPC buffs?

we're at the stage where if it wasnt touched = buffed

[Prof RJ Gumby]

In this patch, they decided that IS small laser required a nerf. To cooldown. I literallay can't even.

Edited by Prof RJ Gumby, 14 October 2017 - 02:23 AM.

[Kiiyor]

Jun Watarase, on 14 October 2017 - 02:17 AM, said:

What PPC buffs?

I think he means the indirect buff to PPC's because of the direct nerf to laser vom vom.

[Kiiyor]

Ok, I'm trying to think of some benefits for the laser nerfs. Glass half full and all that crap.

• Lots of mechs will suddenly become more heat efficient.
  
• Unless everyone hides to wait out the increased recharge timers, overall mech survivability will go up.
  
  • Maybe not for straight trade fights, but definitely for movement between cover, or mobile fights in general.
• Moves across semi open terrain will be slightly safer, though gauss punching holes in you will still be an issue.
  
• Any hit to the dominance of the CERMLAS will likely be a good step towards parity between the 'Sphere and the Clans...
  
  • Although, the change from 3.35 to 4.5s for the 'Sphere ERMLAS is a change of 34.3%, and the change from 3.75 to 5 seconds for the Clan ERMLAS is a change of 33.3%...
• Rushing a hot laser vom mech might actually be a valid tactic.
  
• Aiming and making laser tics count will suddenly become a lot more important...

I dunno. It will at least be interesting to see how it pans out.

[Zader39]

I just want to say, Thanks PGI!!!

I was about to make the mistake of buying a couple of ultimate packs - the patch notes saved me from doing so since the OP is 100% correct. I'll spend that money elsewhere now.

I have no idea what statistics you are tracking and what actual playtesting you are doing to determine the viability of these changes, but it's rather lacking. You either need to get someone with a degree in mathematics; preferably with experience in mathematical modeling/numerical analysis -- not just someone who learned a bit of programming in college driving an excel sheet and expecting to get meaningful statistics.

This is why you get so many players insisting that you don't play your own game, because frankly you keep making sweeping changes insisting it's for "balance" when it's really seems to be either a) not understanding how to analyze the data you are collecting or assuming you are collecting enough data (or the right kind of data) when you really aren't. I suspect it's the latter personally, since it looks like you aren't applying your statistics in the correct context to whatever it is you are trying to achieve. Since your conceptual model is ill conceived it looks like a seemingly random change to the rest of the world (meaning your players just see a random nerf driven by an overly myopic or just outright flawed analysis...).

Personally I hope you revert these changes and rethink your entire approach since this will just do more harm than good. If you think money made from your "new blood" is going to make up for the sales you are not making as you alienate your veterans, hey, best of luck to ya. I'll just stick to free-to-play (when I play at all) until such time you make actual improvements... or until you go out of business, whichever comes first.

[Steve Pryde]

I DONT CARE ABOUT CERML CD NERF BECAUSE MOST OF THE TIME I PAIR THEM UP WITH HLLASERS LOL.













lol

Edited by Steve Pryde, 14 October 2017 - 03:06 AM.

[Papaspud]

GG go clans FTW, what a F'ing joke this patch is. More cooldown= more alpha= clans FTW..... F it I am pretty much done at this point.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

I was actually thinking of buying a piranha a couple weeks ago, but I think I'll just go hang out in World of Tanks Blitz instead its pretty much WoT but all the bad stuff has been removed and potato PCs can run it.

Neato, micro laser nerfs, small lasers nerfed again.

What was the point of that? They aren't even doing big changes in the meta to keep it fresh or anything, they just keep beating dead horses.

[Antares102]

DGTLDaemon, on 14 October 2017 - 01:50 AM, said:

Clan ERLLs will still be in the dumpster where they've always been...

On the contrary CERLL are the way to go right now. Why?

Tonnage: CERLL wins with 2 tons advantage
Slots: CERLL wins with 1 slot advantage
Alpha-Damage: CLPL wins with 1 damage advantage (only)
Range: CERLL wins
Cooldown: CLPL wins with 0.55 sec advantage
Duration: CLPL wins with 0.26 sec advantage
DPS: CLPL wins by by 0.64
DPS/T: CERRLL wins by 0.07 (this is interesting isnt it)

So overall when using CLPL over CERLL you gain 1 damage, 0.55 sec cooldown and 0.26 sec duration but you have to invest 2 more tons and one more slot which is a lot if you ask me.
After the duration reduction of the CERLL form 1.5 to 1.35 plus duration skills the CERLL duration is very much acceptable.

Typically you are running 2x CLPL which if replaced by CERLL make room for another DHS and you still have 3 more tons to at your disposal.

Edited by Antares102, 14 October 2017 - 03:47 AM.

[Bud Crue]

Did I read that right: You are increasing the heat on UAC5s?

Is this some sort of plot to ensure that the only UAC worth taking is the 2?

Why do that? Seriously? Why are you encouraging if not insisting on UAC2 superiority? What is the design/balance goal here?

Thanks for the agility buff to the Kodiak though.

Oh and hitting the Grasshopper...NOW? Geezus, you people really need to stop with the quirks are bad and need to be removed thing. I mean hitting the H...AGAIN? That's what...the fourth time since rescale? Has it really been over performing? Relative to WHAT? The Summoner? The Warhammer? WHAT!? Are you just looking within the chassis? So because it is better than the N and he J you nerf it? How about buffing those instead? God damn.

[warner2]

poltergoost, on 14 October 2017 - 01:08 AM, said:

Those ML and SL nerfs are madness.

So we have MLs slower firing than LLs for IS... MLs AND SLs slower firing than LLs for Clans

And also a pretty nasty across-the board nerf for close-range energy lights.

Wow, just wow...

Indeed. My first thought. The game mechanics have hit an all time low when a medium laser takes longer to recycle than a large laser.

[Mcgral18]

Mr Snrub, on 14 October 2017 - 02:00 AM, said:

Well, the Grasshopper needed the nerf.

I saw one of the 89 heavies used in the WC tourney was indeed a Grasshopper and we can't have a single IS medium, heavy or assault sullying that Clan fest.

As a matter of fact, there were FOUR



Simply an unacceptable amount to have.
#PGIplz nerf

[Jun Watarase]

Bud Crue, on 14 October 2017 - 04:07 AM, said:

Did I read that right: You are increasing the heat on UAC5s?

Is this some sort of plot to ensure that the only UAC worth taking is the 2?

Why do that? Seriously? Why are you encouraging if not insisting on UAC2 superiority? What is the design/balance goal here?

Thanks for the agility buff to the Kodiak though.

Oh and hitting the Grasshopper...NOW? Geezus, you people really need to stop with the quirks are bad and need to be removed thing. I mean hitting the H...AGAIN? That's what...the fourth time since rescale? Has it really been over performing? Relative to WHAT? The Summoner? The Warhammer? WHAT!? Are you just looking within the chassis? So because it is better than the N and he J you nerf it? How about buffing those instead? God damn.

The UAC 5 was the most heat efficient because PGI is bad at balancing, just like how the LBX-10 was the most heat efficient.

Old UAC 5 : 3.33 DPH
UAC 2 : 2.5 DPH <--- Literally why
UAC 10 : 2.85 DPH
UAC 20 : 2.85 DPH
New UAC 5 : 3.01 DPH

I dont know why they dont just balance all the UACs to have the same DPH though. Because you know, that would actually make sense.

The IS UAC 5 is the dominant choice because its not burst. The IS UAC 2 is basically irrelevant because the UAC 5 is better in almost every way, especially in terms of DPH.

The clan UAC 5 is pretty bad because its burst, the fact that its burst gives it nearly the same DPS as the UAC 2 and it has nearly the same damage per shell as the UAC 2. It's main saving grace was that it was much more heat efficient.

[Novakaine]

I'm almost speechless.
Yet only one thought comes to mind.
Canadians.

[Daemon04]

i explicitely waited for the patch notes to make sure there is something worth buying but guess what.

all i see is just new mechs and a lotta nerfs to the existing game mechanics.

ill show you to carry in a nerfed as f.u.c.k. grasshopper pgi.

[BattleBunny]

Well thats me out. It was fun guys o/

[ForceUser]

Typical MWO community, Complains about laser vomit being the go to and strongest meta for months. When it gets addressed they collectively lose their ****.

I will never understand the mentality required to act like this over balance changes. The complete and utter lack of self awareness required to do and say the things the community does. How every patch is the end of the world/MW/life as we know it, gives me a good laugh. So many drama queens with zero understanding of the game or the game mechanics. Meta you can adapt to, so what if weapons change, so long as the reasoning for the changes are there and make sense, and they are/do the community just ignores it because grr PGI but you either adapt or you stay in the hole where you wallow in your mediocrity. Those of us that can adapt will reap the benefits. More builds than just pure laser vomit will be viable and that means more build diversity. But screw PGI right

I'm pretty happy with the MRM buffs though and all the changes that overall improve the game. The QoL changes are all great and some of them overdue but good to see none the less. Happy to see the Throttle decay scoreboard change is back like PGI promised they would fix. The mechlab fixes are good and curious to see what if any affect the MRM Frame Rate linked to fire rate fix will have for me. Also the UAV fix will make friendly UAVs more usefull and hopefully make it so people will more often or at least easier shoot down enemy UAVs.

Edited by ForceUser, 14 October 2017 - 05:52 AM.

[Brain Cancer]

Appogee, on 14 October 2017 - 01:07 AM, said:

You know all those total potatoes you get dropped with and against in Quick Play?

The ones you have to carry. The ones who can't even do 100 damage in a match. The ones who march single file into the enemy firing lines. The ones who stand still at the back hiding behind rocks while the enemy kills their team. The ones who build Mechs with two TAGs and 4 Flamers and an AC2.

All their stats get mixed in with ours, and then PGI makes balancing decisions based on the combined average performance of those weapons.

It's almost as if the system even mixes in this bad data by making it near-trivial to end up in the dataset with the best, most experienced players due to a massive positive bias in the PSR system.