197 replies to this topic

[Shifty McSwift]

Everyone's got an opinion I guess.

I think it comes down to the roles thing that was brought up in the previous energy balancing pass, the changes there only made a relatively small impact. The restored laser max ranges and small pulse changes were about the only substantial changes.

Considering IS now have ER distinctions for all lasers and clan has the heavy and ER distinction, the focus there should be on that ER distinction, with ER lasers all having very good ranges but huge burn times or high heat etc, while the normal and heavy lasers take the focus of being mid to short range damage/dps relative to size weght ratios etc.

Make pulse focused on the fast burn DPS by making those cooldowns and burn times the real difference, the damage or dps rates will catch up with continued volleys, making them great for brawling and pretty sweet for fast peepers.

But yeah opinions are like buttholes I guess, I guess it just comes down to trying to annoy as few people as possible at a time.

[Elegant and Sophisticated]

M1Combat, on 16 October 2017 - 02:06 PM, said:

That's pretty much the ghost heat solution in a nutshell Hipo... The difference being that people combine different laser sizes to skirt around ghost heat.

Energy draw was a good solution IMO...

I thought ghost heat meant filling more of the heat indicator, not getting hot faster.

Edited by Hipoalergeniko, 16 October 2017 - 02:39 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Big Tin Man, on 16 October 2017 - 01:49 PM, said:

I know people hated energy draw, but that kind of system would be working to fix these issues. Maybe it's time to revisit it?

Hell no. Burst DPS limiter not desired.

Jman5, on 16 October 2017 - 02:15 PM, said:

You guys know what you have to do, you're just afraid to do it. Tie the heat penalty for Medium and Large Laser variants together and you will fix the laser vomit alpha strike problem for good.

What do you mean? Can you only fire 2 cER LL and 4 cERML before ghost heat? Or 1 cERLL/1 cERML before ghost heat? What number of lasers triggers ghost heat? Because if its the latter, no thanks.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 16 October 2017 - 02:42 PM.

[Shadowomega1]

Paul Inouye, on 16 October 2017 - 12:02 PM, said:

*snip*

Wouldn't tapping back down Heat cap to a fix number fix many of this games DPS and high Alpha damage builds in one massive fix? A lot of these 70+ damage builds generate 50 to 60 points worth of heat but only fill the heat par by only 40-60% and ghost heat only messes up lighter mechs. Say locking the max heat at 35 points like the prior mechwarrior games, and just increase heat dissipation on heat sinks to allow for more sustained combat.

[Mcgral18]

The Nerf Bat, on 16 October 2017 - 02:30 PM, said:

Maybe I'm not seeing it, but where exactly are the grasshoppers on that chart?

Why was the grasshopper singled out? The grasshoppers primary armament is laser and it was all ready getting an indirect neff. How does nerfing the lasers make the grasshopper OP?

DOES an I.S. mechs need to be needed every patch just because?

The Mauler and GHopper are the last 2 in the Orange
4 GHopper and 8 Mauler
So, last entry in Orange

https://i.imgur.com/3eb4XOn.png?1

[Appogee]

Paul Inouye, on 16 October 2017 - 12:02 PM, said:

For example, comparing 3 ER Medium lasers against a single Large Pulse Laser shows a significant imbalance when compared ton-for-ton when looking at weapons of relative range and damage profiles.

Dude. It's also about engagement range!

Those of us who have the balls and the skills to get close to the long range snipers, should be able to out-DPS them with higher alphas for lower tonnage at shorter range and lower heat.

If you nerf the Mediums and Small Lasers just because they're not as heavy as large energy weapons, then it'll never be a sound strategy to close the range on the snipers and brawl. Because when we get in shorter range to take them on - having taken damage getting there - we'll just end up with the same DPS that they have.

In which case... we'll all just be forced to sit halfway across the map from each other, peeking and poking in a long-range snoozefest.

Frankly, the game already rewards the peekers too much.

[FORGE88]

you have to be kidding me , you guys nerf every weapon into the ground. it is mechwarrior LASERS AND GAUSS WILL BE STRONG in mechwarrior, get over it get good at the game and stop trashing the way this game plays. it feels stuck in the mud , the nerfs look like they are designed to cater to people that are blind. stop ruining Mechwarrior.

[Gas Guzzler]

"For example, comparing 3 ER Medium lasers against a single Large Pulse Laser shows a significant imbalance when compared ton-for-ton when looking at weapons of relative range and damage profiles."

I'd rather have 3 LPL than 6 ERML personally.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 16 October 2017 - 02:54 PM.

[Fobhopper]

FORGE88, on 16 October 2017 - 02:52 PM, said:

you have to be kidding me , you guys nerf every weapon into the ground. it is mechwarrior LASERS AND GAUSS WILL BE STRONG in mechwarrior, get over it get good at the game and stop trashing the way this game plays. it feels stuck in the mud , the nerfs look like they are designed to cater to people that are blind. stop ruining Mechwarrior.

The problem is the fact that so many maps are open fields and that without ammo limitations and healthy ranges, Lasers are completely out performing every other weapon type in the game. To the point that Laser loaded mechs completely out perform all other mech loadouts, as seen in the MWO championship.

PPC and Gauss being good are expected, when played in the right environments. the issue is that laser builds are much more reliable and efficient to the point that even PPC and gauss are getting passed over in favor of laser builds.

[Mechrophilia]

Paul Inouye, on 16 October 2017 - 12:02 PM, said:

[color=orange] ...At this point our focus isn’t about targeting Alpha Strike capabilities specifically, but the overall usage of Medium Lasers when comparing them as a 1-ton weapon versus heavier weapons in the same class. [/color]

I think what puzzles most is why on earth medium laser comparatives were given higher priority than clan Alpha Strike capabilities.

[Shinskii]

Just stopping by to say thanks for listening!

[Tlords]

PGI wonderful job with the reciprocal concession.

Step 1: propose changes that some people hate.
Step 2: dial back the changes a little bit and now those people love you.

For me, I wish you'd have started with a larger nerf-bat that way we'd be back to the origial changes you proposed. None-the-less, bravo!

Gas Guzzler, on 16 October 2017 - 02:54 PM, said:

"For example, comparing 3 ER Medium lasers against a single Large Pulse Laser shows a significant imbalance when compared ton-for-ton when looking at weapons of relative range and damage profiles."

I'd rather have 3 LPL than 6 ERML personally.

Who wouldn't if you have the 15 tons necessary for the two extra LPL over 6 ERML.

[Damnedtroll]

Judah Malganis, on 16 October 2017 - 01:49 PM, said:

High alphas could be addressed with lower base dmg and faster cycling, making poke'n'hide more inefficient.

MW4 was a good exemple of that... medpulse that do like 0.7 damage per shot but cycle fast, ermed that do 2 damage... result: when i was playing this game I never used something smaller than a large laser... don't know if it would be good in mwo but it's a lot of change and tweak...

Edited by Damnedtroll, 16 October 2017 - 03:30 PM.

[GalahadVGL13]

The tone of this update message is refreshingly calm and professional.
I wanted to take a moment and acknowledge that.
Regardless of what i think of the patch, etc...



Also it makes me more glad that I left the salt out of my responses to the patch notes.

Please consider some sort of respec/HSP kind of gift to go with any big balance pass, I think your casuals would be helped by that.

Please take this for what it's worth, but try not to drop a big balance pass to coincide with your larger mech-pack releases. Give them a few weeks to settle in.
I didn't buy this one, but I can imagine how I would feel if I early-adopted.

[Stinger554]

Gas Guzzler, on 16 October 2017 - 02:54 PM, said:

"For example, comparing 3 ER Medium lasers against a single Large Pulse Laser shows a significant imbalance when compared ton-for-ton when looking at weapons of relative range and damage profiles."

I'd rather have 3 LPL than 6 ERML personally.

FYI you should be looking at 2 LPL vs 6 ERML not 3 LPL by PGI's statement. If you were looking at 3 LPL VS 9 ERML then your personal preference would make more sense in line with PGI's statement.

Edited by Stinger554, 16 October 2017 - 03:34 PM.

[Kamikaze Viking]

Appogee, on 16 October 2017 - 02:49 PM, said:

Dude. It's also about engagement range!

Those of us who have the balls and the skills to get close to the long range snipers, should be able to out-DPS them with higher alphas for lower tonnage at shorter range and lower heat.

If you nerf the Mediums and Small Lasers just because they're not as heavy as large energy weapons, then it'll never be a sound strategy to close the range on the snipers and brawl. Because when we get in shorter range to take them on - having taken damage getting there - we'll just end up with the same DPS that they have.

In which case... we'll all just be forced to sit halfway across the map from each other, peeking and poking in a long-range snoozefest.

Frankly, the game already rewards the peekers too much.

This is exactly it. The risk reward trade off between range and DPS.

But also the difference in skills. Eg at lower tiers the brawl and mid range is much stronger. At high tier players are much better at putting out accurate damage at extreme range to hurt/kill the brawlers before they can close range, which doesn't happen in low tier.

Medium lasers not the problem its the c-ERML max range that you added back recently. So maybe pull that back a little bit (less than half of the buff you gave it) Each swing of the pendulum should be smaller than the previous one.

But please Stop looking at the top performers and nerfing them. Please look at the Underperforming or never used at all weapons and bring them UP to make them a viable choice.

re: GHR - 3 nerfs in a row for that chassis, yet its really only good in one specific role ERLL overwatch, and as we saw in WC its hardly used now compared to the summoner. IS needs to keep at least 1 good JJ capable heavy.

[Nightbird]

Gas Guzzler, on 16 October 2017 - 01:13 PM, said:

Thanks for listening, but I still believe the actual way to balance the high alpha vomit is to start tapping down weapon damages (read: slightly reducing) to get closer to the trade off between other dakka/burst DPS type builds, so there is more of a decision there. Cooldown changes literally just make high alpha builds run cooler and don't address the crux of the issue, which is that the damage output is a bit too high, especially on the Clan side (sorry guys, I love my Clan giga-alpha builds too, but there is a reason why the IS is completely outclassed in that role).

Maybe time to start tapping down damage values by 0.5 damage or so, tops?

I assume you mean the medium lasers?

I would prefer not seeing more of a deviation from lore damage and heat values. If the lore values are terrible, drastically decrease cooldown to create a DPS weapon. If the lore values are too good, increase cooldown. This does mean some weapon damages would get nerfed, such as a Large Laser only doing 8 damage for 8 heat, but just make duration .6 seconds and cooldown 1.5 seconds and it becomes an AC5 that uses heat instead of ammo. Get rid of ghost heat. Voila, something different.

[vidjahgames]

Thank you.

[Racerxintegra2k]

I think its mighty big of Paul to step into the fire and take one for the rookie balance master for totally dropping the ball.


That being said ... i CRINGE every time PGI try's to "balance" the game by nerfing.

I'm having less and less FUN every time they touch something. Its to late for me i started playing something else.

I've dropped well over $1000 on this game and for the last 2 years have played pretty much everyday for at least an hour.

While those stats are sad .. that's what fiddling with things that aren't broken gets you. You've lost an addict.

[Commander A9]

I would really love it...if PGI actually took the time...to play Quickplay, Faction Play, and COMP Play...and actually get a firsthand understanding...of how their own game...really...works...