38 replies to this topic

[Novakaine]

Well ya'll can use lurmz now instead.
Wait...........nevermind.

[Y E O N N E]

BrunoSSace, on 18 October 2017 - 04:04 PM, said:

Sad thing is, its still a 1 ton investment so most people have to keep using it. They don't have the choice.

And therein lies the rub. PGI is largely basing their balancing off of usage, but I'm not convinced they have properly accounted for the fact that so many 'Mechs don't really have much choice outside of Medium Lasers if they want to be effective.

[El Bandito]

Blue Pheonix, on 18 October 2017 - 05:17 PM, said:

PGI recently broke SPL. Now PGI took a step to break ML. Sigh.

Don't worry, large class lasers will be next on the chopping block.

[GoatHILL]

Hey guys we all know all the 20-25 alpha IS mechs running ML or ER-ML were just plain OP. Something had to be done.



^sarcasm^

[Jay Leon Hart]

FireStoat, on 18 October 2017 - 04:54 PM, said:

Is ghost heat on using clan Er small lasers with Medium Pulse lasers new, or has it always been around? I had a goofy MAD IIC laser build of large pulse x2, medium pulse x3, er small x4 and previously all 9 lasers could be fired without ghost heat. But now I'm getting the little warning symbol in the mech lab. It's the 4 small + 3 mediums tripping it, and none are heavy lasers.

(I didn't see a response, sorry if this was already answered)

Clan Small & Medium class lasers were GH linked a while ago, with Heavy & Micro class lasers being added when they dropped.

For reference.

[Mr Snrub]

El Bandito, on 18 October 2017 - 07:02 PM, said:

Don't worry, large class lasers will be next on the chopping block.

That's the weird thing: if you decide to nerf lasers, why do it in steps? I can't imagine they'll stay as they are now, with LLs firing more often than mediums.

It's one of those patches again:

[mogs01gt]

El Bandito, on 18 October 2017 - 04:09 PM, said:

TBMS, ERMLs now have longer cooldown than ERLLs. The syncing is even worse than pre-patch, for ERMLs.

My timing is WAY off right now. I fire, twist away and go to refire and my ******* MLs are still on cooldown! So twist gain, ohh wait they are ready now, "GAHH!"

Edited by mogs01gt, 19 October 2017 - 05:07 AM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

BrunoSSace, on 18 October 2017 - 04:04 PM, said:

Sad thing is, its still a 1 ton investment so most people have to keep using it. They don't have the choice.

Yep that is how I feel. I don't have any real options so I have to keep using medium lasers. If I go smalls, my engagement range gets way to short to be effective, especially on the bigger, slower mechs and I generally don't have the weight to mount any more Large energy weapons than I have already mounted so I am stuck with medium lasers that fire slower than my Large Laser and totally throw off my timing. I am seeing alot more hide and alot less fight right now. Not sure that is a good direction to go.

[IshanDeston]

I was fine with the initial suggestion of increasing all Laser cooldowns. I hadn't known about the update. This is ridiculous. Large Lasers shouldn't have a shorter cool down than medium ones. And Pulse Lasers are entirely untouched.

I get everyone is piloting the big guys, but why does this change only punish IS light & mediums? The big boys will just change over to large lasers.. and given their cool down is quicker than a medium, why wouldn't you? You do have the tonnage for it, so go for it. Makes no difference for them. But the mediums and light are being punished by this change, almost exclusively.

Either you change all laser cool downs, or you change none of them.

[Judah Malganis]

Lol... I remember discussions during the LMG fiasco that if we were to nerf weapons based purely on usage, we should nerf medium lasers. That'll teach us to keep our mouths shut.

Lasers are supposed to be low-weight, good dmg weapons with high heat, and medium lasers are the thing you smack in a slot when you have nothing else to play with. My big fear is that LRM boats will do the math and find medium and small lasers not be worth the weight, so even less of them will have backup lasers. It also goes without saying lights get spanked hard by the nerf.

[kesmai]

Just wait for 2 years and ml's are back where they have been 2 Days ago.

[Snowhawk]

Koda Shy, on 18 October 2017 - 06:49 PM, said:

so pgi gives us skills to lower cooldowns and heat....then call no joy and increase the base values........ whats the ******* point in that.......next they will lower the base armor value and give ams a cooldown..........i see it coming

FupDup, on 18 October 2017 - 06:53 PM, said:

They already did this with agility, ECM, and now Artemis.

sad... but so true....

[Lances107]

For once I think the IS got completely screwed on this over that of the Clans. On the clan side it really did nothing at all, as our lasers are always controlled by heat. You have to wonder the logic behind this. It is no secret the IS has less crit space then clans, so why would you target a one ton need weapon on the IS side? Then their is the clan side of it, you look at this, and its like ok you effected nothing at all. The only way a clan pilot feels this is if he is boating nothing but er medium lasers.

As for High Alphas being the problem, this argument needs to die, this game is too far down that path to ever change that now.

The skill point tree argument yea it kinda does make you wonder why? Skill points for cool down, but ok we will increase the cool down?

At this point if I were pgi I would roll back the laser changes entirely.

[adamts01]

Snazzy Dragon, on 18 October 2017 - 04:21 PM, said:

Pretty sure a lot of players have already done that several patches ago

Or they just said "**** it all" and replaced MWO with Planetside 2, like this guy.

[Fox the Apprentice]

FupDup, on 18 October 2017 - 05:30 PM, said:

I can imagine somebody using that, yelling at their team's Dire Wolves and Annihilators for leaving them behind.

I guess the lights will finally stop leaving the assaults in the dust

[Daurock]

My thoughts and opinions:

Previous to this patch, I will say that the ML/ERML/c-ERML was used just about everywhere, bullying out a lot of other options. The SPL, LL, and MPL were pretty rare by comparison. I understand the reasoning behind attempting to get people to switch away from the ML. However, don't believe that this is the change we needed. I would have instead looked at the weapons people weren't taking - Namely, small class lasers, isMPL, and ISLL, and ask why they were being passed over for the ML and ERML. (Hint: It was the too-short range for the smalls, and the horrible dmg/ton ratio of the MPL and LL.)

Personally, I believe that there is a little too much overlap in the 0.5-2 ton weapon categories. If I were PGI, I'd be finding ways to better differentiate them. One example would heavies having a more exaggerated cooldown, with exceptionally bad heat efficiencies, instead of the nearly same efficiency they have now, with really only extra burn time to make them unattractive. Another could be all ER-vafiant lasers getting a lengthened damage dropoff instead of a flat range increase, which would open up more room to give the small lasers a flat range boost to make them useful, and help better define each laser size class by range. You could even go as far as having all pulse lasers getting their burn times, reload times, and heat efficiencies improved even more than they are now comparatively to encourage spam-firing them (To make them actually feel different, you'd probably also have to do an alpha reduction. something like an IsMPL doing 3 damage with a 1 second reload, .25 burn time, and generating 1.5 heat in the process.)

[C E Dwyer]

dr3dnought, on 18 October 2017 - 04:16 PM, said:

I've converted my IS mechs using mediums as secondary weapons to ERSL (or no backup lasers at all) and using the freed up tonnage on bigger main weapons, ammo, heatsinks, or targeting computers etc. I'm still using ERML in heat-limited laser vomit builds.

Well we should see large lasers of all types getting a burn duration time increase, P.G.I's logic will be, we've screwed over Medium lasers, people use more large ones now, so we'll increase face time and make them useless as well ?

[MadRover]

Cathy, on 19 October 2017 - 08:28 AM, said:

Well we should see large lasers of all types getting a burn duration time increase, P.G.I's logic will be, we've screwed over Medium lasers, people use more large ones now, so we'll increase face time and make them useless as well ?

Don’t forget every one will by turning there torsos at 1degree/s and turning the mech must be done while standing still. Gotta make it worth it somehow right?

[Telephonejack]

FireStoat, on 18 October 2017 - 04:54 PM, said:

Semi related question.

Is ghost heat on using clan Er small lasers with Medium Pulse lasers new, or has it always been around? I had a goofy MAD IIC laser build of large pulse x2, medium pulse x3, er small x4 and previously all 9 lasers could be fired without ghost heat. But now I'm getting the little warning symbol in the mech lab. It's the 4 small + 3 mediums tripping it, and none are heavy lasers.

As far as I recall, the ghost heat for ML and SL counts them as the same for ghost heat purposes, you can have 6 total. Just drop a small for something else or fire in salvos.