66 replies to this topic

[OrmsbyGore]

Khobai, on 22 October 2017 - 05:31 PM, said:

assuming equal skill levels, 4 assaults should pretty much always beat 4 lights.

although Id be interested to see how the lights performed if electronic warfare was actually a thing

if mechs suffered a damage penalty when firing beyond optimum range without a sensor lock and lights had better sensors than most assaults, the lights would then have the advantage at long-range sniping. it would certainly make assaults like the cyclops important for the extra sensor range.

Why would the small, fast lights ever come into an assault's effective range? You know lights would have complete control over where and if an engagement happens, and have the speed to get away if things don't go their way

[m]

Lykaon, on 22 October 2017 - 02:03 PM, said:

...

Now as to the original posters idea...

There are several factors other than the simple math of weight balance.

A single 100 ton mech is seriously out matched by five 20 ton mechs because of the increased capacity to exploit advantages the five mechs have.

First is angle of attack. a 100 ton mech vs andother 100 ton mech has one direction of attack as the origin point of incoming damage. This means there is one angle to be focused on for defensive counter-play. Blocking one point of LOS is significantly easier than five As is defensive manuver applied against one origin point (torso twisting against one attacker vs five)

Next we have the heat scales. One 100 ton mech obvioulsy has one means of building and venting heat. Once the heat cap is reached it will be shut down or damaged by over ride. Conversely five 20 ton mechs have individual heat scales and means of building and venting heat. If one or more 20 ton mechs reach their heat thresholds they may disengage to cool off while the remaining un heat burdened mechs can continue the attack. There is a much much higher degree of sustainable offence in five 20 light mechs than one 100 ton ton assault mech.

With just two advantages it takes only two light mechs to express these effects and these effects are exponentially improved by adding more light mechs.

Essentially only two light mechs will win the vast majority of the time assuming there is not a considerable skill gap between the participents.

Take a look at the graph I made on page 2. Just follow the red line upward and stay above the blue line as we are using at minimum 4 Assault mechs. Everything should pan out correctly as long as the buckets of players that are separated by Tiers to a decimal point that join the Light mech side are sorted correctly. I mentioned the Tier values in a post or two after the graph (eg. Tier 1 to Tier 1.99 for instance is an example of a bucket and so forth).


Here's a battle outline of something the graph can create:

8 Assault mechs (with varying Tiers from 1 through 5)

VS

9-10 Lights (with strict Tiers from 2.3 through 2.8)

Edited by m, 22 October 2017 - 07:00 PM.

[General Solo]

If they fix up hit reg a bit... Sure

[Vellron2005]

m, on 21 October 2017 - 07:53 AM, said:

Hello everyone,

I am suggesting a game mode that promotes an Assault vs Light battle scenario with 4 (100 ton mechs) vs 20 (20 ton mechs), or 1 Lance vs 3 to 5 Lances where the tonnage is somewhat equal but on an extreme scale where power, tactics, and skill is competing against large numbers.

I think it would be a fun game mode especially if the payoff is worth it. A wild type of scenario like this could be what the game is missing at the current time in Quick Play and possibly even in Faction Play (Community Warfare).


Thank you for your time.



-CLICK TO VOTE-

Poll disabled at the moment until we can come up with something to vote on as a community

4 Assaults Vs. 20 lights?

Lights win in less than a minute, without any losses..

Dude, I've seen a single light demolish a lance of assaults.. this game is horribly broken in that way..

You cray cray

[Big Whale]

So you just want to farm assault kills? Not sure why, you can do that in QP anyway.

What the game needs is some sort of reasonable escalating game play.

Light lance goes in vs another light lance, depending on objectives these get to call in reinforcements, such as a medium/heavy lance, and then assaults are called in.

Cause there is no point in calling in assaults if lights or meds duels is lost. Would be a slaughter anyway.

Oh and make the light mechs select the point where assaults are dropped in. The current spawn points are crap and kill any excitement/variety in a game. Make it feel like a bloody war and not Oral Highlands ping-pong.

Edited by Big Whale, 23 October 2017 - 04:38 AM.

[m]

I went ahead and placed the graph on page 2 within a table. The Strict Light Tier buckets might need to be tuned on PGI's end obviously based on population and who is in Queue for this Battle Scenario but in my eyes the table on its' own seems logical and should be left alone because there would be many people at the new or low tier end (20) and few people at the veteran or high tier end (1).

If you join as a Light your Tier will determine your bucket size on your team and how many Assaults you will go up against.

If you join Assault then you are matched against any number of Lights from 1 through 20 regardless of your Tier.

Edited by m, 23 October 2017 - 05:41 AM.

[General Solo]

Vellron2005, on 23 October 2017 - 02:25 AM, said:

4 Assaults Vs. 20 lights?

Lights win in less than a minute, without any losses..

Dude, I've seen a single light demolish a lance of assaults.. this game is horribly broken in that way..

You cray cray

Meh, most people are not really qualified to pilot assault mechs

Most lights avoid good assualt pilots cause their dead or very damaged.

I mean most assualts pilots still try to out turn a light mech going forward instead of smashing it in reverse.

[Khobai]

Quote

Why would the small, fast lights ever come into an assault's effective range? You know lights would have complete control over where and if an engagement happens, and have the speed to get away if things don't go their way

depends on the gamemode. if its a gamemode like domination the lights wouldnt have a choice where to engage.

for a scenario like this to even work youd have to have a gamemode that prevents the lights from just staying at max range and sniping down the assaults

domination is a gamemode that could work for that. since it forces both the assaults and lights to fight in the center.a single circle might favor assaults too much though. domination with multiple circles would probably be better since it would allow the lights to move around more.

Edited by Khobai, 23 October 2017 - 05:08 PM.

[m]

Khobai, on 23 October 2017 - 05:02 PM, said:

...

domination is a gamemode that could work for that. since it forces both the assaults and lights to fight in the center.a single circle might favor assaults too much though. domination with multiple circles would probably be better since it would allow the lights to move around more.

I am thinking something along the lines of a custom map for something like this and let the scenario be exclusive to this map (just an idea), whereas the Lights have to make it to the top of a spire or mountain top to activate a beacon which sends out a signal for a dropship to arrive at that point for pickup and Assaults are hunting them down. This would provide a bit of story backing as to why so many lights are gathered in one spot. So as the Lights wait for extraction, the Assaults have to both destroy the all the Lights and the Beacon. If they only destroy the Lights then they have to get off the mountain top or else the dropship will attack them constantly until they get off the spire or mountain.

I am referring to a design something like this when I mention spire or mountain (pretty much a spiral up a mountain to a flat cap or plateau).

[MechWarrior5152251]

Locusts are only good against assaults one on one. If they can't hide behind you they are dead. If another mech can cover you locusts are worthless.

[Khobai]

m, on 24 October 2017 - 12:04 AM, said:

I am referring to a design something like this when I mention spire or mountain (pretty much a spiral up a mountain to a flat cap or plateau).

so basically you want lights fighting assaults on candy mountain?

[Mystere]

Novakaine, on 22 October 2017 - 10:30 AM, said:

Haha I'm more afraid of four lights than I am of four assaults.
Which is just arse backwards, but hey PGI..........

Ah! The days of the terrifying light wolf packs were fun times indeed.

[Mystere]

Khobai, on 23 October 2017 - 05:02 PM, said:

depends on the gamemode. if its a gamemode like domination the lights wouldnt have a choice where to engage.

for a scenario like this to even work youd have to have a gamemode that prevents the lights from just staying at max range and sniping down the assaults

domination is a gamemode that could work for that. since it forces both the assaults and lights to fight in the center.a single circle might favor assaults too much though. domination with multiple circles would probably be better since it would allow the lights to move around more.

Alternatively, have a dense urban map.

[m]

Khobai, on 24 October 2017 - 07:41 AM, said:

so basically you want lights fighting assaults on candy mountain?

I was afraid my desperation for a new mode and map would become too obvious. Wouldn't mind a piece of that cake though

Edited by m, 25 October 2017 - 07:34 AM.

[General Solo]

Mystere, on 24 October 2017 - 01:25 PM, said:

Ah! The days of the terrifying light wolf packs were fun times indeed.

Combination of bad aim, light fright and bad hit detection make this possible.

Edit: And of course teamwork and coordination are awesome.

Double edit: Mmmm Thousand Posts, only approx 230 years to catch up to Bishop Steiner.

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 25 October 2017 - 05:56 AM.

[OrmsbyGore]

Khobai, on 23 October 2017 - 05:02 PM, said:

depends on the gamemode. if its a gamemode like domination the lights wouldnt have a choice where to engage.

for a scenario like this to even work youd have to have a gamemode that prevents the lights from just staying at max range and sniping down the assaults

domination is a gamemode that could work for that. since it forces both the assaults and lights to fight in the center.a single circle might favor assaults too much though. domination with multiple circles would probably be better since it would allow the lights to move around more.

It wouldn't work for domination since you can prevent the capture timer from counting down by shooting mechs in the circle. And the fact that you need a specific game mode to give the assaults a chance goes to show how unbalanced a 4 on 4 would normally be

[m]

So lets get started on discussing vote options. I think voting on the table is a good start for the Assaults vs Lights battle scenario.

Does anyone have any thoughts on what else should be included in the vote besides a simple Yes/No for the table that was made?

[Dr Hobo]

Assaults V lights?

Short term if the assaults are splat builds,if they get a hit,the lights are dead.

If it's energy builds,lights win in the long game.

We used to do this in the tabletop often for fun. It's good for building wolfpack tactics there. But there,if an assault has hands and grabs a light,all he has to do is wait for one to get close enough to be beaten.

[m]

I just redid the poll so I encourage everyone to go and VOTE! VOTE! VOTE!

Cheers

[Hobbles v]