28 replies to this topic

[SirNotlag]

Forgive my ignorance on a lot of the lore, MWO was actually my first battle tech game and got me into the franchise so I'am missing out on a lot of stories and backgrounds.

I know the Civil war was mainly between different IS factions and did not have a front line as most civil wars go. I'm sure the clans had infighting as the Truce hadn't worn out yet.

Since there is low population we cant have too many factions otherwise you'll never get a game. would it be possible to simply split the clan and IS in 2 so there are 2 clan and 2 IS factions. This allows for clan vs clan and IS vs IS matches to happen during the Civil war, which makes sense to me.

My question to people who know the Lore is how would you split up the sides so it made sense, and can it even be done in a meaningful manner?

[Bombast]

There's basically three sides to the IS Civil War.

1. Katherine Steiner-Davion (Oh yah, we're deadnaming) and the 'Lyran Loyalist.' The usurper of the FedCom crown. While she pushes her Steiner heritage mostly, she has supporters in the Davion camp as well, and controls most of the Federated Commonwealth. Has ComStar logistic and political support.

2. Victor Steiner-Davion and the 'Davion Loyalist.' The ousted prince who's started a Civil War to dethrone his insane, evil sister. Pretty much the rebel leader. Plays up the Davion angle, but has support from from the Steiner side as well. Has unofficial ComStar military support.

3. Team 'Break Me Off A Piece Of That Nation.' Basically everyone else, either using the Civil War as a distraction to peck at their neighbors, or directly peeling some skin off the big bad FedCom. There's no real alliance here, just a bunch of vultures.

Though... As nice as it would be to have actual lore based FW... I somehow doubt splitting it up again is going to help FW. Probably make it worse.

EDIT: Though, maybe it would be a good time to just abandon the IS vs. Clan thing for the time being? Have everyone re-roll as a Davion supporter or Steiner supporter? I dunno. That would probably piss people off.

Edited by Bombast, 13 August 2017 - 06:12 PM.

[Smites]

There are no sides to the Civil War. Just a broken game mode called Faction Warfare.

[SirNotlag]

Bombast, on 13 August 2017 - 06:10 PM, said:

EDIT: Though, maybe it would be a good time to just abandon the IS vs. Clan thing for the time being? Have everyone re-roll as a Davion supporter or Steiner supporter? I dunno. That would probably piss people off.

Yeah i know i wouldn't like that. I like playing clan every once in awhile.

Even now with just clan vs IS sometimes depending on the time of day it takes half an hour to get a match, so dividing the match maker even a little bit will make it worse. Perhaps as special events that pop up every once in awhile that you have the option to join.

[El Bandito]

Bombast, on 13 August 2017 - 06:10 PM, said:

Though, maybe it would be a good time to just abandon the IS vs. Clan thing for the time being? Have everyone re-roll as a Davion supporter or Steiner supporter? I dunno. That would probably piss people off.

PGI should make everyone choose between Davion, Steiner, Wolf, and Falcon for a while to emulate FCCW and Refusal War.

Edited by El Bandito, 13 August 2017 - 07:15 PM.

[Bombast]

El Bandito, on 13 August 2017 - 07:15 PM, said:

PGI should make everyone choose between Davion, Steiner, Wolf, and Falcon for a while to emulate FCCW and Refusal War.

Another idea - Could they group up, say, Davion+Falcon and Steiner+Wolf? Keeps it at two buckets, but teams would still be limited - Clan can only group with clan, IS with IS. But the enemy could either be the opposing Clan faction, or opposing IS faction.

[Magnus Santini]

We has a thread where some people contributed a lot of lore about other conflicts going on at the time. I hope that PGI calling the big leaderboard event "Civil War," does not mean they gave up on doing something else. https://mwomercs.com...__fromsearch__1

Edited by Magnus Santini, 13 August 2017 - 07:54 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Bombast, on 13 August 2017 - 07:25 PM, said:

Another idea - Could they group up, say, Davion+Falcon and Steiner+Wolf? Keeps it at two buckets, but teams would still be limited - Clan can only group with clan, IS with IS. But the enemy could either be the opposing Clan faction, or opposing IS faction.

PGI is in a bit of a pickle though. Since they advanced the time line, Smoke Jaguar has been eradicated so should be removed from the game yet how do you tell all the Smoke Jaguar units and fans their Clan is no more? On the other hand they need to remove them so that they can fix faction warfare to reflect the current state of the game. To be honest I think they jumped to far forward. They should have just jumped it to Operation Bulldog because it was still Clans vs IS at that point.

Still I think your right. They should be changing the format a bit to reflect the Civil War and they should also be using this opportunity to allow both Clan and IS players to fight together for the same faction.

First of all, PGI has already side that MWO was an alternate universe similar to but not exactly the same as the canon universe so they should use come creative writing and write up a lore that makes sense. For example in the canon time line we have many Clans fighting for the IS clans such as Wolf-in-Exile and Nova Cat for example. We also have some loose alliances such as Clan Wolf's Khan, Vlad aligning with Katherine Steiner at least in the bedsheets so that should be the basis. Using some creative writing you could end up something like this.

Katherine's Faction:

Steiner
Clan Wolf
Clan Smoke Jaguar
FWL
Liao
Clan Steel Viper
(Maybe even toss in WoB for those fans)

Victors Faction:

Davion
Clan Wolf-in-Exile
Clan Jade Falcon
Clan Nova Cat
Kurita
FRR
Clan Ghost Bear
(Maybe even toss in Comstar for those Fans)

Then fight out an alternate Civil War between those two factions. This solves alot of issues.

One - No more worrying about Clan vs IS balance in FW because you can play as either Clan or IS and still be fighting with your favorite faction.

Two - Solves the issue about being in the Civil War while the FW map is still stuck in 3057.

Three - Allows PGI to bring in several high demand factions such as Wolf-in-Exile, Comstar and WoB and maybe even bring in the other clans as well since we are talking alternative history at this point.

I think it would be a big win-win for everyone.

[AncientRaig]

Well, there's Katherine "Katrina" Steiner-Davion who's basically a mad, power hungry psychopath. She wants to take over the Federated Commonwealth and started the civil war by basically saying "Steiner #1" and then torturing, exiling, or straight up murdering most of her siblings and treating her people like **** until they finally couldn't take it anymore. While she didn't officially break up the FedCom, she did split its rulership along the old political lines and recalled all Lyran units back to traditionally Lyran space after invoking emergency powers during a war with the Capellans and the FWL. Then, when Victor went to go genocide the Smoke Jaguars, she tried to take over everything. Her hobbies include Lyran patriotism, completely disregarding the military chain of command, and withholding food and water from entire planets if the ruler of said planet is even suspected of being disloyal. Oh, and she also had her own mother assassinated in a bid to become Archon-Prince of the FedCom.

Then there's Victor Steiner-Davion. Basically, he's one of the best human beings in existence and generally a stand up guy. He was made Archon-Prince of the FedCom, but was forced to leave Katrina and his other sister Yvonne in control of the FedCom because the Smoke Jaguars couldn't stop being ******** for long enough to realize that being giant {Richard Cameron} gets you nuked from orbit and he was needed to go help with that whole thing. He came back to find himself usurped by Katrina. But, being the stand up guy he was, he didn't want to throw his people into a civil war at first. When he learned that all of his siblings either dead, hiding, or completely mentally broken, and Katrina was being all insane and evil, he decided enough was enough and reluctantly kicked the war off so that he could save the FedCom from having to suffer under his lunatic sister.

[Johnny Z]

If faction play had a currency reward and something awesome to spend it on then I would be playing. Right now hording creds is the only currency I may need IF new content is added. That or MC. I am sure lots of players are in this boat and this is one of the main reasons faction play may not be as popular.

Its not broken, there is just no reason to play it really.

Edited by Johnny Z, 13 August 2017 - 08:19 PM.

[El Bandito]

Viktor Drake, on 13 August 2017 - 07:55 PM, said:

PGI is in a bit of a pickle though. Since they advanced the time line, Smoke Jaguar has been eradicated so should be removed from the game yet how do you tell all the Smoke Jaguar units and fans their Clan is no more? On the other hand they need to remove them so that they can fix faction warfare to reflect the current state of the game. To be honest I think they jumped to far forward. They should have just jumped it to Operation Bulldog because it was still Clans vs IS at that point.

Still I think your right. They should be changing the format a bit to reflect the Civil War and they should also be using this opportunity to allow both Clan and IS players to fight together for the same faction.

First of all, PGI has already side that MWO was an alternate universe similar to but not exactly the same as the canon universe so they should use come creative writing and write up a lore that makes sense. For example in the canon time line we have many Clans fighting for the IS clans such as Wolf-in-Exile and Nova Cat for example. We also have some loose alliances such as Clan Wolf's Khan, Vlad aligning with Katherine Steiner at least in the bedsheets so that should be the basis. Using some creative writing you could end up something like this.

Katherine's Faction:

Steiner
Clan Wolf
Clan Smoke Jaguar
FWL
Liao
Clan Steel Viper
(Maybe even toss in WoB for those fans)

Victors Faction:

Davion
Clan Wolf-in-Exile
Clan Jade Falcon
Clan Nova Cat
Kurita
FRR
Clan Ghost Bear
(Maybe even toss in Comstar for those Fans)

Then fight out an alternate Civil War between those two factions. This solves alot of issues.

One - No more worrying about Clan vs IS balance in FW because you can play as either Clan or IS and still be fighting with your favorite faction.

Two - Solves the issue about being in the Civil War while the FW map is still stuck in 3057.

Three - Allows PGI to bring in several high demand factions such as Wolf-in-Exile, Comstar and WoB and maybe even bring in the other clans as well since we are talking alternative history at this point.

I think it would be a big win-win for everyone.

I support this.

[Oldbob10025]

PGI had a gold mine when they did the new tech to get even more people involved into Faction Warfare and dropped the ball.

They did discuss a while back in a townhall that they were going to do faction warfare special events for clan vs clan and IS Vs IS warfare only. The didnt come and what better time than a Civil War? Davion vs Steiner would have been great also at the same time Clan Jade Falcon and Clan wolf had a match up and could have had that as Clan vs Clan.

PGI had the best time to do something like that when all the hype is new and could have brought new players into the game with that simple concept.

IS VS IS
Clan Vs Clan events and PGI dropped the ball.. I dont like beating up PGI for this but it was a simple idea that could have went over great and hell I would have been in FW not only for food pellets but to fight the good fight...

[invernomuto]

Bombast, on 13 August 2017 - 06:10 PM, said:

2. Victor Steiner-Davion and the 'Davion Loyalist.' The ousted prince who's started a Civil War to dethrone his insane, evil sister. Pretty much the rebel leader. Plays up the Davion angle, but has support from from the Steiner side as well. Has unofficial ComStar military support.

Isn't Victor Steiner-Davion a member of Comstar during Civil War?

[Karl Streiger]

Bombast, on 13 August 2017 - 07:25 PM, said:

Another idea - Could they group up, say, Davion+Falcon and Steiner+Wolf? Keeps it at two buckets, but teams would still be limited - Clan can only group with clan, IS with IS. But the enemy could either be the opposing Clan faction, or opposing IS faction.

At least it would put the two factions i hate most in the same bucket.... - then we can dig a hole and put both into it - afterwards drop a mountain on it and nuke the site from orbit....

and about the lore of it?

The "good" guy who grew up on Tharkad and who fought his whole carrier with lyran units - became Davion because the "good" guy is Davion...

And the "bad" guy the smaller sister (my son would approve - smaller sisters are evil by their very nature) moved to the Lyrans because those are ze Germans and Germans are {Godwin's Law} and {Godwin's Law} are bad - very simple - but the Holy War and the Dark Age are bad from their narrative perspective.... I don't understand people----

Edited by Karl Streiger, 14 August 2017 - 02:05 AM.

[Khobai]

the civil war is bad from its narrative perspective too

battletech gets really boring after operation bulldog

[MustrumRidcully]

Bombast, on 13 August 2017 - 06:10 PM, said:

EDIT: Though, maybe it would be a good time to just abandon the IS vs. Clan thing for the time being? Have everyone re-roll as a Davion supporter or Steiner supporter? I dunno. That would probably piss people off.

I think that wouldn't be bad for the game. A mixed tech base in factions can much better deal with a Clan vs IS imbalance. If both sides in a match have the same number of players from each tech base (which a match-maker has to ensure), there is a lot less pressure to balance the tech bases perfectly, and PGI can focus on dealing with individual outliers.

Changes I would make:

Players (as Loyalist, Unit Members or Solos) pledge to a certain nation (e.g. Steiner, Davion, Clan Ghost Bear) and a side in the "Civil War".
Either the player or his unit picks a planet that he/she/it is going to fight for.
Matches are generated independent of planets you fight for, and there will be an equal number of IS and Clan decks on both sides.
The match results are then applied to the tug of war state of the planets the players pledged.

This simplifies match-making and should speed it up, as it is no longer neccessary that a match is dedicated to one planet. (Of course, it's also more abstract, but since we're not fighting on planet-specific maps either, who really cares?)

This result also allows to determine:
1) Which faction in the Civil War won the planet?
2) How much did each Nation contribute to a planetary win?
3) How much did each unit contribute to winning a planet?


The selection to fight for a particular planet would probably work like a faction contract works for mercenaries - it lasts a certain amount of time.

Anyone that contributed to a certain planetary result might get rewards injected when the planet is taken and held for a certain amount of time, and your faction and selected nation or unit might also get rewards for winning and holding a certain planet.

[Bombast]

invernomuto, on 14 August 2017 - 01:55 AM, said:

Isn't Victor Steiner-Davion a member of Comstar during Civil War?

He quits just before he starts the Civil War. A bunch of the units he commands swear personal fealty to him and prepare to join him, but he tells them not to, as the Civil War needs to be resolved internally - If he comes in under his roll as Precentor Martial, he'll be seen as an invading force, not a legitimate son of Hanse Davion.

He almost immediately gets into a pickle, and a bunch of the ComGuard ignore his orders, join the war and save his bacon.

Once the war is over, he gets his job as Martial back, because Victor's a pimp and everyone knows it.

Edited by Bombast, 14 August 2017 - 04:03 AM.

[FLG 01]

Making this conflict Steiner vs Davion misses the very concept of "Civil War" so much that you might just as well ignore it alltogether. Call it 5th Succession War or whatever, but it is certainly not the Civil War if it's Steiner vs Davion.

I realize the population of MWO, especially in FP, is not big enough to support more than two camps, but that is why one should think about alternative solutions. One could, for example, make some events and add a "loyalist" and an "allied" tag for those events.

Of course, another problem is that nobody is going to fight for Katherine, and I will certainly not do it just because I have a Steiner-avatar. ...especially as a good number, if not most of the Steiner-family did not support Katherine to begin with; people like Tabitha Steiner are often overlooked, who fought and died in the 1st Davion Guards, but the neutrality of people like Caesar should be better known (and his son, Reinhardt, was commander of Victor's own 10th Lyran Guards Mech regiment). The loyalty of the Steiner-family and the LAAF to Katherine was not all that great, which is why the Civil War had a chance to begin with...

[Sixpack]

I would suggest something different. Freeze the current FW. Set up a new server for the civil war and run that for an event. No mercenarys and once you pleged loyality you are stuck with that sie till the bitter end. Hand out big personal rewards and min faction ones.

[CK16]

Should be 4 buckets.

Steiner loyalist
Davion loyalist
Crusader Clan
Warden Clan