58 replies to this topic

[JediPanther]

You want to resize the ns after what the rescale did to lights? i'd love to see urbie sized ns.

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

Yeonne Greene, on 22 October 2017 - 02:55 PM, said:

You know, I'm reading "NSR is mediocre" a lot. In terms of all Assaults in the game, including Clans? Sure. In terms of IS Assaults? Not at all. Easily contesting with the established the top 3 (BNC, MAL, BLR). It ERLLs as well as IS can ERLL, it dakkas as well as IS can dakka, it spreads damage as well as a Stalker can, and it has the best or close to the best alpha the IS can possibly bring.

I'm not sure I buy that.

I don't see it as being better or even contesting those 3- it suffers much worse convergence, or weapon height, and at times both. I don't think it's better than the Annihilator either, certainly not as a whole. The Mauler and Battlemaster have significant advantages.

It's above average if you consider all the trash variants available on mechs like the Awesome, but it is heavily heavily crippled by the hand hardpoints on all except the -9P and -9S. It definitely isn't terrible, but it also doesn't really expand the capabilities of the IS Assault lineup in any way- rather just offering a slightly different (and questionable) flavor of things we already have.

It looks cool though.

[Athom83]

Bombast, on 21 October 2017 - 10:21 AM, said:

All hand actuators need to be removed (From mechlab, not the models).

Or, just give them a use in game besides just speeding up arm slew.

[Y E O N N E]

Aggravated Assault Mech, on 24 October 2017 - 12:08 AM, said:

I'm not sure I buy that.

I don't see it as being better or even contesting those 3- it suffers much worse convergence, or weapon height, and at times both. I don't think it's better than the Annihilator either, certainly not as a whole. The Mauler and Battlemaster have significant advantages.

It's above average if you consider all the trash variants available on mechs like the Awesome, but it is heavily heavily crippled by the hand hardpoints on all except the -9P and -9S. It definitely isn't terrible, but it also doesn't really expand the capabilities of the IS Assault lineup in any way- rather just offering a slightly different (and questionable) flavor of things we already have.

It looks cool though.

At long ranges, where you use UAC/2 and ERLL, convergence issues disappear. It carries more DHS with 5x ERLL than any other IS Assault, period. It can run a >60 pinpoint, ranged alpha in better mounts than any IS assault, period, without running any slower than those other assaults would doing the same thing.

The closest comparisons are the BNC-3S and MAL-2P.

I would agree that it doesn't expand capabilities much, but that's really because there was nowhere left for IS to expand to without an overhaul to their weapons and/or thier GH groupings. Even removing the hand actuators buys you nothing especially different than what we can already do. You gain 1 point of damage and 1.8 kph over the 9FC if you remove hand actuators from the 9J and receive worse heat efficiency since you are using 2x ERML to replace one of the LL from the 9FC and you have the same quantity of heatsinks. Whoopdeedoo.

[Fox the Apprentice]

Kaeb Odellas, on 23 October 2017 - 10:36 PM, said:

[...]
They're outclassed by the Madcat MKII in nearly every way.
[...]

In what way aren't they outclassed?

[HGAK47]

I dunno guys Its really not that bad. Im not saying its a super hot **** top top level mech but its certainly got at least some potential.

I dont know about you lot as im a cbills poor scrub now but I need a fat stack of cbills to play around with before I can even start getting some funky fun builds going on the NSR`s. The stock builds are pretty terrible coming with bloody XL`s.

I love a good XL engine from time to time but not on a fatty mech.

[Athom83]

Fox the Apprentice, on 24 October 2017 - 07:57 AM, said:

In what way aren't they outclassed?

In walking animation... and no timbie ears.

[El Bandito]

Yeonne Greene, on 24 October 2017 - 06:41 AM, said:

At long ranges, where you use UAC/2 and ERLL, convergence issues disappear. It carries more DHS with 5x ERLL than any other IS Assault, period. It can run a >60 pinpoint, ranged alpha in better mounts than any IS assault, period, without running any slower than those other assaults would doing the same thing.

IMO, the best sniper IS Assault is still the BLR-1G, with 6xERLL.

[Gas Guzzler]

Viktor Drake, on 21 October 2017 - 09:47 AM, said:

Going to have to do it.

Arms lowered back to the way it was supposed to be in the first place.

Somewhat more seriously though. It isn't that bad of a mech as is. I just think people are complaining because we all thought it was going to be the premier IS assault mech and that didn't happen.

It has some glaring downsides and very little upside.

El Bandito, on 24 October 2017 - 09:04 AM, said:

IMO, the best sniper IS Assault is still the BLR-1G, with 6xERLL.

Have you not experienced the 6UAC2 Mauler MX90?

[El Bandito]

Gas Guzzler, on 24 October 2017 - 09:06 AM, said:

Have you not experienced the 6UAC2 Mauler MX90?

MX-90 loses to laservomit easily in peekaboo trades. Face staring with UAC2s require escorting mechs to draw the enemy's attention away from the Mauler, or it can pop fast while firing.

I rack up more damage with the MX90 in QP, but in FP BLR-1G is definitely better on heat neutral, and cold maps.

Edited by El Bandito, 24 October 2017 - 09:11 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Yeonne Greene, on 22 October 2017 - 02:55 PM, said:

You know, I'm reading "NSR is mediocre" a lot. In terms of all Assaults in the game, including Clans? Sure. In terms of IS Assaults? Not at all. Easily contesting with the established the top 3 (BNC, MAL, BLR). It ERLLs as well as IS can ERLL, it dakkas as well as IS can dakka, it spreads damage as well as a Stalker can, and it has the best or close to the best alpha the IS can possibly bring.

Eh, IMO it falls behind those 3. I kind of like the Cyclops more too. Maybe I just keep getting dropped into ****** NASCAR heavy matches that it seems to not perform well in.

El Bandito, on 24 October 2017 - 09:09 AM, said:

MX-90 loses to BLR-1G easily in peekaboo trades. Face staring with UAC2s require escorting mechs to draw the enemy's attention away from the Mauler, or it can pop fast during its face staring.

I rack up more damage with the MX90 in QP, but in FP BLR-1G is definitely better.

Eh, its not as simple as face staring vs peakaboo.

And the ammo dependence alone makes it inferior in FP so...

HGAK47, on 24 October 2017 - 08:15 AM, said:

I love a good XL engine from time to time but not on a fatty mech.

~70 kph mobile humanoid assaults can run XLs decently.

[El Bandito]

Gas Guzzler, on 24 October 2017 - 09:10 AM, said:

Eh, its not as simple as face staring vs peakaboo.

And the ammo dependence alone makes it inferior in FP so...

And FP is where I spend most of my time. MX90 is too slow, and too situational to be my main sniper there.

[Gas Guzzler]

Yeonne Greene, on 24 October 2017 - 06:41 AM, said:

At long ranges, where you use UAC/2 and ERLL

I really don't agree with this build man. You have to manage lasers and DPS... so while you fire your lasers if the target is moving you can't accurately fire the UAC/2s...

I feel like the ER PPC is better because it syncs up almost perfectly velocity wise.

El Bandito, on 24 October 2017 - 09:13 AM, said:

And FP is where I spend most of my time. MX90 is too slow, and too situational to be my main sniper there.

Well for FP, I would agree

[Y E O N N E]

Gas Guzzler, on 24 October 2017 - 09:13 AM, said:

I really don't agree with this build man. You have to manage lasers and DPS... so while you fire your lasers if the target is moving you can't accurately fire the UAC/2s...

I feel like the ER PPC is better because it syncs up almost perfectly velocity wise.

Slow targets require no lead at all. Else, you need to pull some cycles for heat anyway, nothing inherently bad about switching off the UACs for less than a second to line up the burn. They are UAC/2, after all.

What the ERLL let you do better than any weapon featuring finite projectile speed is react to agility. Over-reliance on weapons with finite projectile speed (read: too many WHK-C) is what got D5 killed this year in MWOWC, because it just could not apply effective damage against the Summoners which, once they knocked out the direct opposition, had basically free reign.

ERPPC is no more effective against a stationary or slow target and is less effective against fast peeks is really all it boils down to, because you need a certain amount of premonition or minimum enemy exposure to calculate deflection. Also, 10 damage for 13.5 heat vs. 18 for 16? Easy choice.

That said, I do run a single ERPPC on the 10P. Harder to trace, helps you go less noticed in QP with the ECM.

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

Yeonne Greene, on 24 October 2017 - 06:41 AM, said:

At long ranges, where you use UAC/2 and ERLL, convergence issues disappear. It carries more DHS with 5x ERLL than any other IS Assault, period. It can run a >60 pinpoint, ranged alpha in better mounts than any IS assault, period, without running any slower than those other assaults would doing the same thing.

The closest comparisons are the BNC-3S and MAL-2P.

I would agree that it doesn't expand capabilities much, but that's really because there was nowhere left for IS to expand to without an overhaul to their weapons and/or thier GH groupings. Even removing the hand actuators buys you nothing especially different than what we can already do. You gain 1 point of damage and 1.8 kph over the 9FC if you remove hand actuators from the 9J and receive worse heat efficiency since you are using 2x ERML to replace one of the LL from the 9FC and you have the same quantity of heatsinks. Whoopdeedoo.

ERLL does seem to be the strength of the Nightstar, but otherwise I think the lukewarm reception is partly because it's shoehorned into a niche that IS isn't really that good at in comparison to Clans... 59 vs. 60 damage gauss vom on the NSR (I'm assuming) is just pretty **** compared to the full spectrum of DPS vs. range that you can pull out of the Deathstrike.

The hand actuators not only cap the overall slots available (making it an inherently sub-optimal chassis from a paper perspective), but cripple the mech in the eyes of many players by cutting the comfort brawler builds out from under it.

I'm ok with the Nightstar being focused on a more long-range style of play (since those are really few and far between for IS), but wow it would be nice if I felt like that was a serious advantage to the mech in the grand scheme of things, rather than doing it because there's a lack of better options.

[Relishcakes]

Paigan, on 21 October 2017 - 11:09 AM, said:

AFAIK they calculate the volume correctly since the size overhaul but intentionally made lights, especially the locust, smaller to give them an artificial advantage.

They semi recently made all of the lights a lot larger..except for maybe the locust and its friends in that weight. so..i dont see how ALL the lights got an artificial advantage.

[Relishcakes]

There is so much whining from people wanting this mech to be the end all and be all. Please stop. This is probably part of the reason PGI doesnt communicate with us anymore. Leave the **** alone for now, if statistics show there are issues then adjust. gotta give it time.

[Mechrophilia]

The Nightstar is not a terrible mech, but it is a disappointment.

[Y E O N N E]

Aggravated Assault Mech, on 24 October 2017 - 09:33 AM, said:

ERLL does seem to be the strength of the Nightstar, but otherwise I think the lukewarm reception is partly because it's shoehorned into a niche that IS isn't really that good at in comparison to Clans... 59 vs. 60 damage gauss vom on the NSR (I'm assuming) is just pretty **** compared to the full spectrum of DPS vs. range that you can pull out of the Deathstrike.

The hand actuators not only cap the overall slots available (making it an inherently sub-optimal chassis from a paper perspective), but cripple the mech in the eyes of many players by cutting the comfort brawler builds out from under it.

I'm ok with the Nightstar being focused on a more long-range style of play (since those are really few and far between for IS), but wow it would be nice if I felt like that was a serious advantage to the mech in the grand scheme of things, rather than doing it because there's a lack of better options.

63 damage out of the 9FC vs. a theoretical practical max of 64 out of the 9J sans hands. Granted, still not a Deathstrike, but still a pretty hefty wallop. Hands also lock out the use of AC/10 and UAC/10 with all lasers on the 9J, but those yield lower damage builds anyway and UACs would he crazy hot. Else, the hands just rob you of 1 more DHS, one more ton of ammo, etc., which can typically be passed back to engine . It sucks, but it isn't something that makes or breaks this 'Mech.

For brawl, not sure what gets locked out. For brawl, you should be taking the LB-10X anyway for the lower heat. With six MPL, a pair of those is quite ferocious. I'd actually wonder whether or not the brawly Mk. II would win against it given the armor quirks and initiative-holding capabilities of faster refire on the 9J. None of the save the Hero are SRM bombers, but the Hero isn't really fast enough to SRM bomb and with only 4xSRM6 and 4xMPL, I'd rather just take a Battlemaster.