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It Has Been Several Months Since The Gauss Ppc Meta Has Died....


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#1 CK16

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 05:55 AM

Is there a current meta that is as "broken" as Goose Peeps?

Deathstrike withstanding (granted as bastardizing it by removing the Jump jets!) Is Gauss vomit really that much an put lier for Clan and IS? The Nightstar is not bad honestly, it just doesn't have the raw alpha the DS does. But why don't we see the same builds on other clan chassis? Direwolf is more then capable of mounting the same numbers, KDK-3 is close as well.....

Does the DS really Warrent a nerf? Because careful if you say so it will get the Kodiak treatment of nerfing all platforms and making the other varriants suffer for worse at the expense of the a minor nerf to the one outlier.

Edited by CK16, 23 October 2017 - 05:56 AM.


#2 Snowbluff

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 06:15 AM

Maybe if they buffed the JJ on the madcat we wouldn't have stripped them all. The 2 ton JJ should be at least as good as Class III.

Anyway, laser vom is really strong. I took my TBR out for good ol' times sake, and lost the armor to a hellbringer in what felt like one alpha. :l

I like Guass vomit though.

#3 El Bandito

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 06:17 AM

PPFLD meta was reinforced by poptarting with JJs. Gaussvomit is far less effective while poptarting. I say current meta is easier to deal with--provided it is Clan vs. Clan and IS vs. IS. Clan vs. IS is very much unbalanced, still.

Deathstrike does step out of the line, but I think this time the best kind of nerf would be to balance Clan and IS tech so that DS wouldn't be such an obvious nail that is sticking out.

Edited by El Bandito, 23 October 2017 - 06:19 AM.


#4 CK16

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 06:27 AM

View PostEl Bandito, on 23 October 2017 - 06:17 AM, said:

PPFLD meta was reinforced by poptarting with JJs. Gaussvomit is far less effective while poptarting. I say current meta is easier to deal with--provided it is Clan vs. Clan and IS vs. IS. Clan vs. IS is very much unbalanced, still.

Deathstrike does step out of the line, but I think this time the best kind of nerf would be to balance Clan and IS tech so that DS wouldn't be such an obvious nail that is sticking out.


I can agree to that, I just don't want the Mk II yo be nerfed to handle like an old Russian tractor xD. As long as the chassis remains fairly mobile and I can run stock (or super stock) I will be ok with most adjustments. I just don't want her getting slapped so hard like the KDK :( poor Spirit Bear

#5 Y E O N N E

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 06:59 AM

You do see the same build on the DWF, the DS is just faster with better mounts and agility. You see three-quarter versions of it on the MAD-IIC as well, using either the same number of lasers with a single Gauss or twin Gauss with fewer lasers. Again, though, the DS has better mounts (and so does the MC II-1, which is just as big of an outlier as the DS).

To combat the Gauss-vomit, you have to out-range it. But then you have the SNV to contend with and, frankly, the MCII can still hit you with its own ERLL and the Gauss and IS ERLL are not at all competitive unless they have access to that increasingly scarce 10% range quirk. 799 meters with 20-22 DHS and a TCI is nothing compared to >900 meters with 28 cDHS and a TCIV, the range gap is simply too large.

As for the Nightstar, I think it is more competent than some give it credit for, but a 63-point Gauss-vomit alpha at 55 kph just can't hold a candle to 72, 80, or 94. If PGI.

Does the DS warrant a nerf? I don't see how you could even do that without whacking the agility again, but that doesn't solve the broader issue of giant Clan alpha strikes. There is no justification for why Clans should continue to be able to blast out 71+ points from lasers or lasers and Gauss while IS continue with the same alphas they've had for four years now (and they have been diminished, too, with LPL damage nerf and quirk nerfs). The way I see it, there are four options:

1. More stringent ghost heat groupings on Clan lasers
2. Damage nerfs on Clan lasers
3. Broad, significant durability buffs for the IS
4. Broad, significant improvements to IS equipment (e.g. faster firing, colder firing everything so they can at least get similar sustained DPS as the Clans)

IMHO, the first two options are going to incite an uproar and, really, Light 'Mechs have it hard enough without the only weapons they can feasibly use getting ground to powder; GH also doesn't solve much because the Clans can just push and out-DPS the IS (see: Energy Draw). The third option is a finite resource for a 'Mech and is thus harder to actually take advantage of because of it, though it can be done and we've seen it before. The last option is the most desirable because the lack of it has been what's wrong with Clan/IS since 2014 and, appearances aside, it is the most straight-forward fix.

#6 Jun Watarase

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 07:29 AM

Several months? What? Laser vomit has been the meta for over a year.

#7 Sjorpha

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 08:15 AM

I think laser vomit is way more dominant now than the last wave of gauss/ppc was, because people ran both gauss/ppc and laser vom and now it's only laser vom.

IMO only the first poptart era was problematic, before clan mechs when the meta was poptart Dragon Slayers and Cataphracts, that was truly dominant. The second coming of poptarting was way more balanced with other playstyles and shouldn't have been killed off like that.

Faction tech balance is a bigger problem than weapon balance right now though.

#8 Gas Guzzler

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 08:38 AM

Gauss/PPC has been pretty dead since before May. The Night Gyr clung to it because it could poptart, and those weren't even rampant in the public queue.

Clan Gauss vomit is very strong, IS not so much. I have been enjoying PPC/UAC5 combos on both sides of the fence as well.

What if we shifted both the IS LL and LPL damage up by 1?

#9 Gas Guzzler

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 08:47 AM

View PostSjorpha, on 23 October 2017 - 08:15 AM, said:

I think laser vomit is way more dominant now than the last wave of gauss/ppc was, because people ran both gauss/ppc and laser vom and now it's only laser vom.


Hurray for less variety..

For the record I told the "PPFLD boogeyman" crowd this was going to happen but their fear got the better of them.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 23 October 2017 - 08:47 AM.


#10 Gas Guzzler

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 09:07 AM

View PostYeonne Greene, on 23 October 2017 - 06:59 AM, said:

You do see the same build on the DWF, the DS is just faster with better mounts and agility. You see three-quarter versions of it on the MAD-IIC as well, using either the same number of lasers with a single Gauss or twin Gauss with fewer lasers.


The DWF gets 2 extra lasers (2 ERLL and 6 ERML) and the MAD-IIC-C only has to give up one ER ML (2 ERLL, 3 ERML) with 2 Gauss, and goes 57 kph with one JJ. Its a little slow, but that doesn't stop it from performing pretty well, and the Gauss convergence is unreal.

#11 Battlemaster56

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 09:55 AM

View PostGas Guzzler, on 23 October 2017 - 08:47 AM, said:


Hurray for less variety..

For the record I told the "PPFLD boogeyman" crowd this was going to happen but their fear got the better of them.

Hey! That's what people wanted, the hate for it was extremely high. I kinda like the Guass PPC combo it gave me a reason to use over 30x erppc, and 24x guass rifles lying around in the garage and kinda hoping to use the Nightstar with the same combo over my Mauler 1P.

#12 davoodoo

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 10:37 AM

View PostCK16, on 23 October 2017 - 05:55 AM, said:

The Nightstar is not bad honestly, it just doesn't have the raw alpha the DS does.

it can
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a3f8cc982b9fd96

its just slow as all is mechs.

Edited by davoodoo, 23 October 2017 - 10:37 AM.


#13 Gas Guzzler

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 11:26 AM

View Postdavoodoo, on 23 October 2017 - 10:37 AM, said:

it can
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a3f8cc982b9fd96

its just slow as all is mechs.


57 is vastly inferior to the DS alpha so... not sure what you are getting at here.

#14 davoodoo

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 11:49 AM

View PostGas Guzzler, on 23 October 2017 - 11:26 AM, said:


57 is vastly inferior to the DS alpha so... not sure what you are getting at here.

Let me guess, youll put 6 ermeds or 2 hlls

In that case sure, youll range will suffer but youll get more damage.

#15 Gas Guzzler

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 12:01 PM

View Postdavoodoo, on 23 October 2017 - 11:49 AM, said:

Let me guess, youll put 6 ermeds or 2 hlls

In that case sure, youll range will suffer but youll get more damage.


DS has 2 ERLL 4 ERML and 2 G, MCII-1 has 2 HLL, 2ERML, 2G.

More damage is more important for Gauss vomit because Gauss vomit is a mid-long range loadout, not the extreme range ER LL/UAC2 type loadouts.

#16 Kin3ticX

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 12:05 PM

Its one of PGI's dumber moves. Gauss PPC wasn't even the goto meta when they applied this. I guess they were pre-empting Heavy PPC Heavy Gauss/Gauss combos. The IS already has a firepower problem so whats the point. All those IS mechs dominating in the World Champs... wouldn't want the tek ((balance)) to get any worse.

Just more PPPPFFLLDDS@#$@REEEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeee to me on the ((forums))

Edited by Kin3ticX, 23 October 2017 - 12:10 PM.


#17 davoodoo

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 12:06 PM

View PostGas Guzzler, on 23 October 2017 - 12:01 PM, said:


DS has 2 ERLL 4 ERML and 2 G, MCII-1 has 2 HLL, 2ERML, 2G.

More damage is more important for Gauss vomit because Gauss vomit is a mid-long range loadout, not the extreme range ER LL/UAC2 type loadouts.

660 on gauss
740 on erll
400 on erml
450 on hll

no matter how i look at it
740-660=80
660-400=260
660-450=210

80<210
80<260

#18 CK16

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 12:08 PM

Except many would argue IS has the edge in PPFLD, Clans only PPFLD builds were Gauss PPC. To this day IS still excel at the Pin Point damage numbers for the most part...

#19 davoodoo

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 12:09 PM

View PostCK16, on 23 October 2017 - 12:08 PM, said:

Except many would argue IS has the edge in PPFLD, Clans only PPFLD builds were Gauss PPC. To this day IS still excel at the Pin Point damage numbers for the most part...

and look how it turned out

ppfld is not worth damage loss

#20 Gas Guzzler

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Posted 23 October 2017 - 12:13 PM

View Postdavoodoo, on 23 October 2017 - 12:06 PM, said:

660 on gauss
740 on erll
400 on erml
450 on hll

no matter how i look at it
740-660=80
660-400=260
660-450=210

80<210
80<260


lolwut the fuq is the point of this?

What's funny is at the optimum range of that Nightstar build the DS is still doing 52 damage if it doesn't fire its ERMLs at all. That's only 5 less damage, and there is still 28 more damage sitting in the ER MLs if you are a bit closer.

View PostCK16, on 23 October 2017 - 12:08 PM, said:

Except many would argue IS has the edge in PPFLD, Clans only PPFLD builds were Gauss PPC. To this day IS still excel at the Pin Point damage numbers for the most part...


Nobody cares because 30-35 PPFLD isn't that big of a deal. Clan Dual gauss is 30, so not that far behind.

Besides, I like the burst DPS of 3 cUAC5s and 2 cERPPCs more than 2 IS UAC5s and 2 PPCs, even if it is slightly less frontloaded.





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