51 replies to this topic

[arcana75]

I just came off a match firing 2xATM6 at 130m and it did no damage... I backpedaled further to 180m+ and fired again this time it registered.

[Andi Nagasia]

its 120m,
but remember thats the distance the missile has Traveled, not your distance to target,
if you fire them at 130 and your target moved up into 120 before your missiles hit no damage,
(such as you are charging your target, and your target it charging you)

same does for lights dodging Streaks when dancing around their max range 270(IS)-360(C),
if the light can make the missile travel farther than 270(IS)-360(C) the missiles will explode in air & do no damage,

[Felbombling]

I always use 125m as my default. It seems that some Mechs have big fatty hit-boxes that encroach on that 120m standard.

[arcana75]

Andi Nagasia, on 23 October 2017 - 05:27 AM, said:

its 120m,
but remember thats the distance the missile has Traveled, not your distance to target,
if you fire them at 130 and your target moved up into 120 before your missiles hit no damage,
(such as you are charging your target, and your target it charging you)

same does for lights dodging Streaks when dancing around their max range 270(IS)-360(C),
if the light can make the missile travel farther than 270(IS)-360(C) the missiles will explode in air & do no damage,

Mmm I reviewed the video, the Banshee was stationary, and I moved to 130+ then fired. too close to call. Not sure if uploading the video will help...

In the same vid, less than 1min later a Mauler (??) charged at me and I backpedaled to 190ms and fired, not sure THAT registered as well, cuz I saw the RA and CT blink, but not the RT??

Edited by arcana75, 23 October 2017 - 05:36 AM.

[Verilligo]

A 5-10m difference is enough that mech geometry and flight path across the ground actually matter. From your reticle, the distance could very well have been 130. But the path the missiles took, where they fired from, and where they impacted may have been just enough to put it within the 120m minimum. You may also have had a hitreg issue, it depends on if they exploded or bounced off like nerf darts.

[Bombast]

It's possible that the mechs 'core' (Where HUD ranges are calculated from) was 130 meters away, but the part of the hitbox the missiles hit was closer. Happens with LRMs all the time too.

[Valhallan]

Might also want to check if "range improvements" also "improve" the deadzone. Im too lazy to do it , but it totes sounds like something that would happen.

[kapusta11]

Supposed to be zero.

[Savage Wolf]

kapusta11, on 23 October 2017 - 06:21 AM, said:

Supposed to be zero.

Also supposed to be switch ammo, but can't. And without a minimum they would be incredibly overpowered in MWO... well until everyone mounted AMS. Anywho, 120m is a good compromise.

[Bombast]

Savage Wolf, on 23 October 2017 - 06:51 AM, said:

Also supposed to be switch ammo, but can't. And without a minimum they would be incredibly overpowered in MWO... well until everyone mounted AMS. Anywho, 120m is a good compromise.

Even AMS probably wouldn't save people. I don't think they'd make much of a dent in point blank missile dumps.

[Savage Wolf]

Bombast, on 23 October 2017 - 06:59 AM, said:

Even AMS probably wouldn't save people. I don't think they'd make much of a dent in point blank missile dumps.

True. Ams only currently works because of said minimum range.

[Khobai]

ATM min range should be 0 and it should do less damage per missile

having a min range on ATMs defeats the purpose of the missile system which is to be versatile and good at all ranges

[Steve Pryde]

Khobai, on 23 October 2017 - 07:19 AM, said:

ATM min range should be 0 and it should do less damage per missile

having a min range on ATMs defeats the purpose of the missile system which is to be versatile and good at all ranges

+reduce max range to 500-600m, maybe slight velocity buff to 250-300 (still slower than MRMs).

[PyckenZot]

Andi Nagasia, on 23 October 2017 - 05:27 AM, said:

its 120m,

Felbombling, on 23 October 2017 - 05:32 AM, said:

I always use 125m as my default. It seems that some Mechs have big fatty hit-boxes that encroach on that 120m standard.

I even use 126.

Testing on testing grounds revealed no hits as long as my counter showed 125m. As of 126m all was good. Sadly I cannot remember what mech I tested this on, but it must be one where the launchers protrude by 5+ meters. This calls for more testing and should be better detailed if truly a topic.

Edited by PyckenZot, 23 October 2017 - 07:34 AM.

[Savage Wolf]

Khobai, on 23 October 2017 - 07:19 AM, said:

ATM min range should be 0 and it should do less damage per missile

having a min range on ATMs defeats the purpose of the missile system which is to be versatile and good at all ranges

So, basically you want to make them into SRMs or Streaks, because that would be the result. And then one or the other would become obsolete. They would by all means be superior to the TT implementation because it had the downside of needing three ammo types and needing to switch. And even then you still wouldn't have a weapon that would be effective at all ranges in MWO. It would still only be used at close range.

So since we can't have a weapon that's versatile, lets at least have a unique weapon which rewards being able to stay in the sweet spot on the HE range band with superior fire power.

[Khobai]

Quote

So, basically you want to make them into SRMs or Streaks, because that would be the result.

no because they would do less damage per missile. obviously you didnt read that sentence. its an important one.

because it means atms would be weaker than srms or streaks at short range. but unlike srms or streaks they would have the ability to fire at medium and long range as well.

the purpose of atms is to be a versatile missile thats good at all ranges, just not better than srms at short range, or better than lrms at long range. ATMs should be the jack-of-all trades but master of none of missile weapons.

atms are not supposed to be a 120m-270m niche weapon that does broken amounts of damage like they are now. thats completely not in the spirit of the weapon.

Atms should be 0m-810m range missiles that do ~2 damage per missile at all ranges. The whole damage stepping mechanic is pointless for ATMs, just make them do a uniform amount of damage at all ranges. Pick a damage value that puts them exactly in between SRMs at short range and LRMs at long range.

Edited by Khobai, 23 October 2017 - 08:04 AM.

[Savage Wolf]

Khobai, on 23 October 2017 - 07:51 AM, said:

no because they would do less damage per missile. obviously you didnt read that sentence. its an important one.

Yes. So they would still only be worth using at short range. Hence why they would compete with SRMs and Streaks. They are already wasted on long range and lowering the damage would just make that worse and now they wouldn't be worth using at medium range either.
So I did read that. It just didn't do what you wanted it to do.

Khobai, on 23 October 2017 - 07:51 AM, said:

because it means atms would be weaker than srms or streaks at short range. but unlike srms or streaks they would have the ability to fire at medium and long range as well.

the purpose of atms is to be a versatile missile thats good at all ranges, just not better than srms at short range, or better than lrms at long range. ATMs should be the jack-of-all trades but master of none of missile weapons.

atms are not supposed to be a 120m-270m niche weapon that does broken amounts of damage like they are now. thats completely not in the spirit of the weapon.

Atms should be 0m-810m range missiles that do ~2 damage per missile at all ranges.

See, this is different. 2 damage at ALL ranges, not just lower damage at all ranges. Which would then make them inferior to SRMs at short range, and superior to LRMs at all other ranges. Which would basically still make them broken and overpowered. Now you are just replacing LRMs instead.

[Khobai]

Quote

Yes. So they would still only be worth using at short range. Hence why they would compete with SRMs and Streaks.

except they wouldnt really compete with SRMs and streaks though. SRMs would do far more dps because they fire faster. what are you even talking about. ATMs should be worse than SRMs at short range but capable of doing damage at medium and long range unlike SRMs.

and yes obviously some other adjustments would need to be made to make ATMs better at medium and long ranges. Like increasing their health so AMS doesnt destroy them as easily. And ATMs and LRMs should both gradually accelerate upto a higher max velocity so theyre better at hitting things at longer ranges without making them too good at shorter ranges.

PGI just needs to stop being lazy and fix LRMs so they can also fix ATMs. those missiles need to be able to compete better with direct fire weapons at medium and long range.

Quote

Which would then make them inferior to SRMs at short range, and superior to LRMs at all other ranges.

not really. ATMs cant indirect fire. LRMs would still be superior in their domain.

although ATMs should have more of a parabolic arc than they currently do. ATMs just shouldnt be able to lockon to a target unless you have direct LoS. PGI got lazy with the coding there.

Edited by Khobai, 23 October 2017 - 08:20 AM.

[Savage Wolf]

Khobai, on 23 October 2017 - 08:13 AM, said:

except they wouldnt really compete with SRMs and streaks though. SRMs would do far more dps because they fire faster. what are you even talking about.

Then they would just be trash then. Being worse at all ranges. Remember this is based on you proposing they do less damage at all ranges.

Khobai, on 23 October 2017 - 08:13 AM, said:

and yes obviously some other adjustments would need to be made to make ATMs better at medium and long ranges. Like increasing their health so AMS doesnt destroy them as easily. And ATMs and LRMs should both gradually accelerate upto a higher max velocity so theyre better at hitting things at longer ranges without making them too good at shorter ranges.

Forget long range. Not even LRMs are worth it at long range. But they then at least have the advantage of being indirect, not that it matters much, but it's something I guess.
At medium range they would be similar in DPS. Their difference would be that LRMs can fire indirect which isn't worth much at higher tiers and ATMs having no minimum range, which is far superior.

And while accelerating velocity does help long range, medium range will always be better, so that's where it counts.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

Yeah...something is up with the min range. Testing grounds on stationary targets illustrates this. Not sure if skill tree range additions increase min. range ....(which would be more dumb as adding those nodes is necessary to get to useful missle nodes and would make range additions more of a disadvantage than advantage) or if the range readout is just slightly inaccurate.