74 replies to this topic

[Battlemaster56]

Khobai, on 23 October 2017 - 09:51 AM, said:

sounds like hawken is right up your alley

Hawken CoD with mechs....

Gas Guzzler, on 23 October 2017 - 09:53 AM, said:

Hawken isn't MechWarrior so, no.

You don't seem to understand that shooting mechs is the pillar of any PvP MechWarrior game.

You want to blow up factories or defend convoys or attack palaces? That's single player MechWarrior ****.

What if I want to shoot mechs, and blow up factories and defend convoys?

[Gas Guzzler]

Battlemaster56, on 23 October 2017 - 09:58 AM, said:

What if I want to shoot mechs, and blow up factories and defend convoys?

MW5. Soon.

[Bishop Steiner]

Juodas Varnas, on 23 October 2017 - 08:44 AM, said:

Maybe you just admire it's stupid looking animations?

Ugh, you couldn't pay me enough to pilot that thing.

Animation is terrible... and yet even so it still looks 1000x better than the Nightstar. Fortunately I don't have to see my walking animation from the cockpit.

Gas Guzzler, on 23 October 2017 - 09:09 AM, said:

Gauss vomit is more fun.

Not really. Pretty boring TBH.

CK16, on 23 October 2017 - 09:38 AM, said:

Might be because the Nova Cat was built to be an energy boat? Where the others are bastardized when you do so

TBR with out missile ears still does not feel right......

this from a guy who runs a mkII without missile pods..... (also Black Knight, etc, are energy boats from birth)

Novakaine, on 23 October 2017 - 09:42 AM, said:

Aw man........

Inorite?

The Mysterious Fox, on 23 October 2017 - 09:51 AM, said:

skirmish holds this game up like atlas holds up the sky. the quality of the mode declines the further it gets away from this simple premise. but hey, at least MW5 and battletech will be out soon

Disagree. Skirmish is to me the most mind numbing mode. Deathballz R Us. The simple threat of ulterior objectives can change the complexion of battle. Sure still plenty of idjits who treat it as TDM, but, ya know, there is at least the chance of an interesting fight in the other modes.

Gas Guzzler, on 23 October 2017 - 09:53 AM, said:

Hawken isn't MechWarrior so, no.

You don't seem to understand that shooting mechs is the pillar of any PvP MechWarrior game.

You want to blow up factories or defend convoys or attack palaces? That's single player MechWarrior ****.

No it's just that Khobai pretty much only exists to QQ about MWO...and yet he never seems to leave.

[The Mysterious Fox]

Khobai, on 23 October 2017 - 09:57 AM, said:

obviously youve never even played mechwarrior 4 or mechwarrior living legends in multiplayer

because the most popular multiplayer gamemodes in those games were way more than just deathmatch.

they had strategic objectives that you had to attack/defend/capture. way bigger maps too.

the closest thing in MWO is conquest... which is probably the least bad gamemode. which is why they use conquest for comp play a lot of the time, its the most fair gamemode for all the weight classes, prevents camping, and forces play on the whole map.

even a derisive game like hawken has more depth than MWO in its siege gamemode.

the #1 reason MWO suffers is because every gamemode is skirmish and skirmish is wholly unsatisfying to play.

i dont think mwo has ever been in a position to be what you want it to be, the flaws in the dynamics do not lie with skirmish but how set in stone the battle flow we are already used to in the current maps cough needs more maps cough.

[Khobai]

Quote

i dont think mwo has ever been in a position to be what you want it to be, the flaws in the dynamics do not lie with skirmish but how set in stone the battle flow we are already used to in the current maps cough needs more maps cough.

battle flow is almost entirely dependent on gamemode.

battle flow is totally different on conquest compared to skirmish for example

conquest sees players camping less and using parts of the map that never get used in skirmish. it also gives lights and mediums a stronger role because it makes their speed more important.

the problem is definitely skirmish. it encourages a static, boring style of play, promotes deathballing, camping, it punishes people for using faster lighter mechs, etc...

and its made even worse by weapon ranges being way too long in MWO. the ERLL is a prime example of why weapons should not have that much range. when has both teams camping and poking with ERLLs ever resulted in a fun game? they need to reel in the ranges on weapons to allow for greater variety in matches. because both teams hiding behind rocks and poking with lasers is just not fun. autocannons and missile weapons dont really get effective until under 400m, thats where most of the fighting should occur to increase weapon variety.

If you wanna stop laser vomit, you need to identify what game elements cause people to prefer lasers so heavily over other weapons, and eliminate those elements from the game. I mean certainly clans having much better DHS is a factor. But the skirmish gamemode itself is also a factor. when both teams are encouraged to camp and poke at long range, lasers are going to be the preferred weapon of choice.

Edited by Khobai, 23 October 2017 - 11:52 AM.

[CK16]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 October 2017 - 10:07 AM, said:

this from a guy who runs a mkII without missile pods..... (also Black Knight, etc, are energy boats from birth)

Neg, the only Mk II's with out missiles are the B and the DS. Both can not mount any sadly :/

[davoodoo]

CK16, on 23 October 2017 - 09:38 AM, said:

Might be because the Nova Cat was built to be an energy boat? Where the others are bastardized when you do so

TBR with out missile ears still does not feel right......

You sure mate??

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9fa40f6f2cf07ab

tbh these builds would actually sway me to buy novacat but then i already bought nighstar and acw.

Edited by davoodoo, 23 October 2017 - 10:18 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

CK16, on 23 October 2017 - 10:16 AM, said:

Neg, the only Mk II's with out missiles are the B and the DS. Both can not mount any sadly :/

and the one i have seen you in most? the DS.

Case closed.

[CK16]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 October 2017 - 10:18 AM, said:

and the one i have seen you in most? the DS.

Case closed.

In FW sadly yes due to the meta nature

InQP I am pretty sure my most plays Mk II is the 1 in stock

https://m.imgur.com/a/8pbbD

Edited by CK16, 23 October 2017 - 10:38 AM.

[chucklesMuch]

Is it wrong that I like to shoot the arms off nova cats with no torso weapons?

[The Mysterious Fox]

Khobai, on 23 October 2017 - 10:10 AM, said:

battle flow is almost entirely dependent on gamemode.

battle flow is totally different on conquest compared to skirmish for example

conquest sees players camping less and using parts of the map that never get used in skirmish. it also gives lights and mediums a stronger role because it makes their speed more important.

the problem is definitely skirmish. it encourages a static, boring style of play, encourages deathballing, camping, it punishes people for using faster lighter mechs, etc...

and its made even worse by weapon ranges being way too long in MWO. the ERLL is a prime example of why weapons should not have that much range. when has both teams camping and poking with ERLLs ever resulted in a fun game? they need to reel in the ranges on weapons to allow for greater variety in matches. because both teams hiding behind rocks and poking with lasers is just not fun. autocannons and missile weapons dont really get effective until under 400m, thats where most of the fighting should occur to increase weapon variety.

If you wanna stop laser vomit, you need to identify what game elements cause people to prefer lasers so heavily over other weapons, and eliminate those elements from the game. I mean certainly clans having much better DHS is a factor. But the skirmish gamemode itself is also a factor. when both teams are encouraged to camp and poke at long range, lasers are going to be the preferred weapon of choice.

oh no, i think you give too little credit to the role and nuance of good game designers who build maps and environments in all games. its like the force, its all around you and influences everything in every way. the way things are right now, i would take out assault, incursion and escort and rebalance all the maps. conquest is already problematic with the huge down times of people just running around doing nothing even when the entire red team is dead.

[Khobai]

Quote

conquest is already problematic with the huge down times of people just running around doing nothing even when the entire red team is dead.

thats only a problem if you play with people who dont know what theyre doing

and quite frankly youll have that problem on any gamemode with those people

conquest is by far the best gamemode though because it prevents camping. both teams camping and deathballing is MWO at its absolute worst.

and in conquest other weapons like autocannons and srms become more relevant. because you have more personal brawls where its just like 1v1 or 2v2 at a control point. its not all just camping and poking with lasers.

conquest is still far from ideal though and HUGE improvements can be made to both the gamemode and the maps.

Edited by Khobai, 23 October 2017 - 10:44 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

chucklesMuch, on 23 October 2017 - 10:31 AM, said:

Is it wrong that I like to shoot the arms off nova cats with no torso weapons?

and probably pull the wings off flies, too.


Oddly for all the talk of how easy the arms come off, I have almost never lost an arm on mine.

[chucklesMuch]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 October 2017 - 10:43 AM, said:

and probably pull the wings off flies, too.


Oddly for all the talk of how easy the arms come off, I have almost never lost an arm on mine.

Nah I don't like animal cruelty (even to the insects I don't like).


I haven't either... but I have happily disarmed others

[Trissila]

Gas Guzzler, on 23 October 2017 - 09:53 AM, said:

Hawken isn't MechWarrior so, no.

You don't seem to understand that shooting mechs is the pillar of any PvP MechWarrior game.

You want to blow up factories or defend convoys or attack palaces? That's single player MechWarrior ****.

Shooting 'mechs while blowing up factories or defending convoys or attacking palaces is the pillar of any competent PvP MechWarrior game.

There are far, FAR better games if all you want is deathmatch.

Then again, I suppose they all require much better aim and reflexes than MechWarrior, so that would be a problem for some.

The Mysterious Fox, on 23 October 2017 - 10:07 AM, said:

i dont think mwo has ever been in a position to be what you want it to be, the flaws in the dynamics do not lie with skirmish but how set in stone the battle flow we are already used to in the current maps cough needs more maps cough.

The battle flow is set in stone because of MWO's utter lack of any objective beyond "shoot all the 'mechs".

There is no reason to use anything other than the rough center of each map, because there are no objectives to care about. The only thing you need to do, even in modes like Conquest or Incursion, is kill all the enemy 'mechs. When that is the case, there's zero incentive to do anything other than run to where the enemy 'mechs are (I.E. the center) and shoot at them. Thus we get the same stale battle lines and flows every match.

Throw in objectives that you actually need to care about? Things you need to destroy or protect, intel you need to gather, locations you need to get to? That changes the flow. For maximum freshness, you randomly generate it each time so that players can't optimize on a given map/location.

[Savage Wolf]

Skirmish lovers, rejoice because soon Solaris will come and you don't even have to bother with other bothersome teammates who demand false mechwarrior concepts like "tactics" and "strategy" and "teamwork". Soon you need even less effort playing your mech clicking simulator.

Meanwhile can the rest of us please get a gamemode besides conquest where things like battlefield awareness, positioning and strategy matters as much as our trigger reflexes? We are bored with the endless skirmish. Our brains are asleep as all we do is shoot. We can do things while we shoot you know. Have ways to force people to get shot.

But apparently all the great strategists from lore simply commanded their troops to "make deathball and hill hump". Genious!

So yeah, some people want to shoot mechs. Others want more than just shoot mechs. Shoot and think. And so far only Conquest at least tries to make you think.

Edited by Savage Wolf, 23 October 2017 - 11:51 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Shooting 'mechs while blowing up factories or defending convoys or attacking palaces is the pillar of any competent PvP MechWarrior game.

yep exactly

I mean deathmatch is fine as a one-off gamemode

but it should not be every gamemode like it is in MWO

Quote

Skirmish lovers, rejoice because soon Solaris will come and you don't even have to bother with other bothersome teammates who demand false mechwarrior concepts like "tactics" and "strategy" and "teamwork". Soon you need even less effort playing your mech clicking simulator.

lol

yep solaris takes everything thats actually good about MWO and throws it out the window

all to appease comp players who are less than 1% of the people that play this game

what a waste of time and resources that could be better spent giving us gamemodes that arnt skirmish instead

whats the point of solaris, you can literally just use this tool to predict who will win a 1v1 or 2v2 anyway: http://www.4eye-labs...ator/#s=default

Quote

No it's just that Khobai pretty much only exists to QQ about MWO...and yet he never seems to leave.

I like big stompy robots. What can I say? And believe me if there was a better alternative than MWO I would be !@#$ing gone. So as long as im stuck with MWO im gonna continue to point out how I feel it can be improved.

Edited by Khobai, 23 October 2017 - 12:35 PM.

[Paigan]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 October 2017 - 08:12 AM, said:

I've always decried pure laser vomit as the epitome of boring. Lazy. Vanilla.

And then PGI brought out the Nova Cat. I wanted it for the stupid fun of being the ultimate SpudGun, the thought of flinging 90 LRMs with abandon.

But then I loaded the Prime up, with 2x LPL in the Torsos, and 5x MPL in the Arms, a TC1 and rots and rots of Heatsinks.

And for some reason it was fun in the way that Wubhammer, Black Knights, etc never were.

What black magic have you bewitched me with, PGI??????

Welcome to the dark side. I will be your guide.

[Kin3ticX]

Whats this? Padre Steiner usars un mechlab now? lol wut

[Bishop Steiner]

Kin3ticX, on 23 October 2017 - 12:49 PM, said:

Whats this? Padre Steiner usars un mechlab now? lol wut

Always used the Mechlab. Just never suckled the nipple at MetaMechs.