64 replies to this topic

[DAYLEET]

I got it twice yesterday again, both times on HPG and my first post was made because of a match on HPG too. Not saying it dont happen on other maps but those were the most noticable for me. Yesterday i was on a crab with 3lpl. Rather cold and easy to stay under 100 with "accuracy" with the unchained key. One of those times yesterday i had blown DHS but i know for a fact that on my first post i was fresh out the spawn(in a fight but nothing blown).

[Khobai]

Ive seen the heat bar lag behind the actual heat before

but ive never seen internal damage occur at 40% heat

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

DAYLEET, on 23 October 2017 - 11:53 AM, said:

Since i came back about 2 weeks ago i noticed i often get internal damage without overheating and i also sometimes die. I hear the "Override shutdown" when my heat isnt high enough to shut me down.

Anyone else?

Yep

[Remover of Obstacles]

https://www.youtube...._id=oJNklVmWX2E

Shooting starts at 1:20.

I got the heat warning at 1:26 at 68% of heat.

Weird thing is, I go into the testing grounds and I fire all the lasers back to back with jump jets on in between and I can't get my heat over 50%. Not sure how the heat shot up to 40% on the first shot of just lasers.

[Remover of Obstacles]

https://youtu.be/H61kN8kAHZU

Please fix.

Kay,
Thanks,
Bye.

Guess it wasn't fixed in the last patch.

[Tarogato]

Remover of Obstacles, on 19 November 2017 - 06:30 PM, said:

https://youtu.be/H61kN8kAHZU

Please fix.

Kay,
Thanks,
Bye.

Guess it wasn't fixed in the last patch.

This is really interesting. You can tell that your heat dissipation doesn't look right even at the start of the video. It fluctuates...

Could you do me a favour and tell me exactly how many heatsinks you have on the mech, and exactly what your skill tree is for it? I wanna compare your video to what it's *supposed* to be like.



edit: I just watched another video on your channel, polar highlands. In that video you had serious lag spikes. It would be nice if when you're recording, you always have your ping displayed, toggle it with F9. That was some crazy lag, and some crazy heat gauge. You have three recordings of it... you must get it a lot, which is unusual. Do you have a particularly unstable internet connection? Other people in your house watching netflix or making large downloads?

Edited by Tarogato, 19 November 2017 - 09:12 PM.

[Bandilly]

Remover of Obstacles, on 19 November 2017 - 06:30 PM, said:

https://youtu.be/H61kN8kAHZU

Please fix.

Kay,
Thanks,
Bye.

Guess it wasn't fixed in the last patch.

If I had to come up with a theory based on that video I would say you lost quite a few heat sinks and your capacity was lowered, but your heat display didn't take that into account.

Your other video link doesn't work so I can't comment on it.

Edited by Bandilly, 19 November 2017 - 09:57 PM.

[Remover of Obstacles]

I was using this for the Hellbringer, but it happens on other mechs too. So I don't think it is mech dependent.
I will try to pay attention to other users and see if they are downloading/streaming at the times it happens.

I will try to remember to get the ping/fps shown. I have had matches that felt pretty smooth have issues as well.
Could lag be enough to total mess up the only resource gauge that matters?


https://www.mechspec...ecm-tc-7.12894/

20 points in operations to get all the heat containment/cool run, 49 firepower all heat gen/cooldown/laser duration, 17 sensors and 5 auxiliary (no coolshot nodes, just arty).

[Remover of Obstacles]

https://youtu.be/c7AAelU66xM

It doesn't seem to be ping related.

https://www.mechspec...c1-xl350.12501/
360 engine version

To quote the guy spectating, "wtf is with ur heat?"

[Tarogato]

Remover of Obstacles, on 20 November 2017 - 06:27 PM, said:

https://youtu.be/c7AAelU66xM

It doesn't seem to be ping related.

https://www.mechspec...c1-xl350.12501/
360 engine version

To quote the guy spectating, "wtf is with ur heat?"

Have you ever had it the other way around, where your mech overheated below 100%?

[DAYLEET]

Tarogato, on 19 November 2017 - 09:04 PM, said:

It would be nice if when you're recording, you always have your ping displayed, toggle it with F9. That was some crazy lag, and some crazy heat gauge. You have three recordings of it... you must get it a lot, which is unusual. Do you have a particularly unstable internet connection? Other people in your house watching netflix or making large downloads?

You didnt ask me but my ping on Americas is between 9 and 11 and it never spike(ill hit f9 next time i play but it would be new if i spiked). On Eu its 100-106, it's very stable. I dont monitor it often but i never saw it spike. also didnt get lag that i could visually, aka rubberbanding. But im not an expert into pings and such. I dunno if other factor can come in without showing on the ping number. Either way, they need to find the culprit.

I will note that i am never downloading anything when i play but i have most of the times VLC playing music. Its the only thing i can think of that i do while playing. These music files are actually avi video downloaded from youtube and they only show a single, not animated picture. The file is at most a few hundred MB. I cant imagine that having anything to do with overheat damage triggering under 100% but im still mentioning it incase.

Edited by DAYLEET, 20 November 2017 - 09:00 PM.

[Daggett]

Remover of Obstacles, on 20 November 2017 - 06:27 PM, said:

To quote the guy spectating, "wtf is with ur heat?"

Whats really interesting is that the guy spectating did not meant you.
He was asking that to Mordent Hex, another Teammate.

That means, it's probably an issue affecting multiple players on the same game server and not just you.
I think it could help to get PGI' attention to this, because that's quite a major bug when you guys can reproduce it so often.
Maybe do a post in the patch feedback section and link to this discussion and your videos, or ask a moderator to move this topic?

What's strange is hat i never had this issue, so there may be some location/network factor.

[Appogee]

Someone told me heat is calculated server side.

This would explain explain why it could be out of sync with your cockpit display.

It would also explain why the issue cant be replicated in the testing grounds.

[Tarogato]

I GOT IT.

I GOT THE BUG. HA!!



Excuse the framerate, I didn't have OBS set up for recording gameplay, so my FPS tanked by about half when I started recording. Up until this point in the match I had not to my knowledge been in contact with any flamers. Also, we can completely rule out coolshots.







I clearly overheated at several points in the recording, at...

46%
44%
44%
42%
53%





Each alpha appears to generate ~10% heat.

I have MRM20 + MRM30, which is 6 and 9 heat for 15 heat combined. The mech has no missile quirks. I have a skill tree for 3.75% heat gen. My 15 heat multiplied by (1 - 0.0375) = 14.4375 heat generated per shot.

My mech has 30 base capacity plus 10 TruDubs and 1 PoorDub, for a total heat capacity of 51.5 heat, and I have no Operations skills.

My mech sinks 2.15 heat per second.

My MRMs have a launch duration of 0.5 seconds, which means from the time that I fire them until they are finished, I have sinked 1.075 heat. This means my MRMs should see a maximum spike of 13.3625 heat, which is 25.95% of my 51.5 heat capacity. But in the recording, I'm only generating about 10% per shot.

Oh, and it's broken in testing grounds as well, get a load of this: Clearly I was overheating in the match. And clearly, the maths says this mech should overheat after about 11 consecutive shots, if stationary and not using jumpjets on a neutral map like Forest. I went into testing grounds to test and see if i got the 25% alpha, or the 10%. I got something around 10%. I checked to make sure that in testing grounds that my mech would overheat properly at 100% like it's supposed to, and yes, it worked properly - I was able to put it right up to 97%, and I did overheat when I crossed 100%. But I forgot I closed my OBS, so no recording. When I realised this, I went back into training grounds a second time to record it... and I couldn't get my mech to overheat at all this time. I fired for over 2 minutes and 30 seconds straight, and I could not get the mech to heat up at all. Then I recorded some of it:


So it gets worse over time? My client has been open for maybe 8 hours? I don't necessarily think that's the cause of it, because some people(?) reported experiencing the bug early in their gaming session. I'm wondering if I close the client, or switch to a different mech, the bug will reset / go away. If anybody has any ideas on anything to test before I take any actions, lemme know. =3



Conclusion?

My guess is that this is a client-side desync of heat capacity, possibly dissipation as well. The recordings by Remover of Obstacles seem to indicate that it's related to dissipation, but my 10% heat spike instead of 25% seems to indicate a capacity desync. Either way, it seems the overheat point can fluctuate between different matches, or even within one single match (as evidenced by my overheating at 42%, and then later going to 46% with no overheat at all, and then overheating at 53%). I believe this is also supported by the fact that when I went to testing grounds, I was able to push my mech to an overheat at a proper 100% (no recording, sorry). I believe that in a live online game, the server always sees the correct heat level, so it will give you an overheat when it expects you to overheat, regardless of what the client calculates. But when you're in testing grounds, there's no server to tell you that you were supposed to overheat, so your client will allow you to keep firing until it shows 100%, even if it's calculating heat entirely wrong and lets you fire much more than your mech should technically be capable of.

Edited by Tarogato, 21 November 2017 - 03:57 AM.

[Tarogato]

Could somebody else put this mech together with the same skill tree and build, and let me know if you see ~25% heat generated per alpha? I want to know my maths isn't just very wrong and I'm losing my mind.

[Remover of Obstacles]

Tarogato, on 20 November 2017 - 07:12 PM, said:

Have you ever had it the other way around, where your mech overheated below 100%?

Yes, had it go both ways.

Good catch Daggett, I didn't see he was talking to someone else in that game. Probably happens more than we think. If the desync isn't that large it is probably not very easy to notice.


I wonder if this was introduced in the October Patch or if goes back further to skill tree changes.

[Aliiza]

Hello there.

There is another way to fiddle around this and its any MRM launcher that has more missiles than your mech has tubes available on that slot. And then you need some SRM's.

I used CPLT-A1(C) that has plenty skill nodes opened plus 2x MRM30 and 4x SRM4 (or 3x SRM6). Positioning 2x MRM30 on the same "ear box" and using alpha fire didnt affect how fastly the MRMs got out even CPLT's have just 35 tubes on single box. So MRMs break some flaws of physics here, due using LRMs in similar fashion causes LRM's to stagger launch and time to clear out lets say LRM50 from one box is alot longer.

But back to heat. If you have MRM's still launching and shoot SRM's ... oh boy the Ghost Heat seriously tries to funk you up. Im my case 2x MRM30 fired at the same time gave 22-24% heat (depending on movement) and 4x SRM4 gave 17-20% (same then on movement). And one full alpha set me directly to 64-70% area.

Now here it gets bit wonky/odd and you need to be ingame get this to happen due as mentioned before this doesnt work on training grounds or so. With good old calculus you can count that you can fire: MRM30's as single shot after that animation ends then fire SRM's as single shot walk and wait abit (so you cooldown a abit and weapons are ready) and then alpha all. But this tends to send you to the "knock out stage" and get some overheat.

So my tests is making me to believe that MRMs+SRMs dont actually work as intended.

Edited by Aliiza, 21 November 2017 - 09:00 PM.

[Tarogato]

Aliiza, on 21 November 2017 - 08:57 PM, said:

Hello there.

There is another way to fiddle around this and its any MRM launcher that has more missiles than your mech has tubes available on that slot. And then you need some SRM's.

I used CPLT-A1(C) that has plenty skill nodes opened plus 2x MRM30 and 4x SRM4 (or 3x SRM6). Positioning 2x MRM30 on the same "ear box" and using alpha fire didnt affect how fastly the MRMs got out even CPLT's have just 35 tubes on single box. So MRMs break some flaws of physics here, due using LRMs in similar fashion causes LRM's to stagger launch and time to clear out lets say LRM50 from one box is alot longer.

But back to heat. If you have MRM's still launching and shoot SRM's ... oh boy the Ghost Heat seriously tries to funk you up. Im my case 2x MRM30 fired at the same time gave 22-24% heat (depending on movement) and 4x SRM4 gave 17-20% (same then on movement). And one full alpha set me directly to 64-70% area.

Now here it gets bit wonky/odd and you need to be ingame get this to happen due as mentioned before this doesnt work on training grounds or so. With good old calculus you can count that you can fire: MRM30's as single shot after that animation ends then fire SRM's as single shot walk and wait abit (so you cooldown a abit and weapons are ready) and then alpha all. But this tends to send you to the "knock out stage" and get some overheat.

So my tests is making me to believe that MRMs+SRMs dont actually work as intended.

Did you check that your calculations factored the worst modifiers in the ghost heat group?

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...eapon_heatscale

For instance, if you fire MRM30 and SRM4 at the same time, they share a penalty group, and penalty is selected from the worst of the two, in this case the MRM30, which has a limit of 2 simultaneous weapons. If you add an SRM4 on top of two MRM30, the SRM4 should receive the MRM30's penalty.

[Remover of Obstacles]

In the testing grounds, are you finding that it takes 2 minutes plus to cool down from 100% even on a cold map.

Should take closer to twenty seconds if my smurfy mechlab information is right.

[Tarogato]

Remover of Obstacles, on 22 November 2017 - 03:28 AM, said:

In the testing grounds, are you finding that it takes 2 minutes plus to cool down from 100% even on a cold map.

Should take closer to twenty seconds if my smurfy mechlab information is right.

Yeah, I've even gotten the bug the other way around. My mech cools down way faster than it should, I can't even build up heat at all sometimes. In a live match, the server doesn't see the bugged heat though, so I believe your heat is calculated properly, it's just a case of ... you need to pretend your heat gauge doesn't exist and just go by memory, or calculate in your mind how many shots you can fire before your mech is supposed to overheat. If you can do that... you shouldn't have any problems until this is fixed.