32 replies to this topic

[Phoolan Devi]

Jack Booted Thug, on 24 October 2017 - 09:38 AM, said:

When lances are splitting up to go cap... it's generally over. Sending the fastest mech for a close cap point on certain maps is fine, but it doesn't take all 4. The other 3 should be headed to the best strategic location to engage with the rest of the team.

Lances splitting up equals loss most of the time.

Nope....lights engaging the enemy in a conquest mode are wasted tonnage. They should do what lights (and fast mediums) should do......cap! I always flinche when I see lights engage into a stupid fight while the lights of the opposing team have already capped 4 of the 5 points.

To be honest though, capping should reward way more c-bills and mtch score than it is currently the case!

[Paigan]

Phoolan Devi, on 25 October 2017 - 03:51 AM, said:

Nope....lights engaging the enemy in a conquest mode are wasted tonnage. They should do what lights (and fast mediums) should do......cap! I always flinche when I see lights engage into a stupid fight while the lights of the opposing team have already capped 4 of the 5 points.

To be honest though, capping should reward way more c-bills and mtch score than it is currently the case!

Are you intentionally posting nonsense in every thread?

I'll try it once again before giving up on you, seriously:
Lights are not as weak as you might think. They might not have the damage potential of an assault brushed for damage output, but they are still significant.
If 3 or 4 of them are missing, the team has someting like a 8vs12 battle ahead of them. In about 9 of 10 cases, that means the match is lost before it even started.
A single fast light going capping can be worth it, but multiple mechs going to cap are not increasing the capping progress in the same amount as they hurt the remaining Mechs in the fight.

9 of 10 conquest matches are decided by kills and the winning team just capping everything back. Focussing on caps CAN work, but it's a giant gamble with very very slim chances because it requires the Mechs that get slaughtered to buy time to be very good/lucky AND the superior enemy to be very dumb/unlucky.

Please try to write less nonsense.

Edited by Paigan, 25 October 2017 - 06:39 AM.

[SFC174]

Jack Booted Thug, on 24 October 2017 - 09:38 AM, said:

When lances are splitting up to go cap... it's generally over. Sending the fastest mech for a close cap point on certain maps is fine, but it doesn't take all 4. The other 3 should be headed to the best strategic location to engage with the rest of the team.

Lances splitting up equals loss most of the time.

Alpha is generally fast enough to pick up the 2 natural caps and rejoin the main force before the furball begins. But Charlie is almost never fast enough to recover from trying to cap when they shouldn't and Bravo generally isn't either (usually they'll have one or two quicker mechs, which just splits them up if they try and cap). But splitting Alpha to cap the 2 easy points early is very low risk unless there's some sort of event going on which increases the number of heavies and assaults on each team.

You just have to make sure Alpha knows to rejoin the group....something not always possible in Puglandia.

p.s. - I hate conquest in solo queue. But I hate losing even more

Edited by SFC174, 25 October 2017 - 09:25 AM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

SFC174, on 25 October 2017 - 09:24 AM, said:

Alpha is generally fast enough to pick up the 2 natural caps and rejoin the main force before the furball begins.

This.

If I can go 120+ kph, I can cap 2 or 3 points before the rest of my team have even targeted an enemy 'mech, let alone fired a shot... (yes, that is a gross exaggeration)

[Phoolan Devi]

Paigan, on 25 October 2017 - 06:38 AM, said:

Are you intentionally posting nonsense in every thread?

I'll try it once again before giving up on you, seriously:
Lights are not as weak as you might think. They might not have the damage potential of an assault brushed for damage output, but they are still significant.
If 3 or 4 of them are missing, the team has someting like a 8vs12 battle ahead of them. In about 9 of 10 cases, that means the match is lost before it even started.
A single fast light going capping can be worth it, but multiple mechs going to cap are not increasing the capping progress in the same amount as they hurt the remaining Mechs in the fight.

9 of 10 conquest matches are decided by kills and the winning team just capping everything back. Focussing on caps CAN work, but it's a giant gamble with very very slim chances because it requires the Mechs that get slaughtered to buy time to be very good/lucky AND the superior enemy to be very dumb/unlucky.

Please try to write less nonsense.

What's wrong with you? Some kind of god komplex?

I have a different opinion than you, but am smart enough to not call yours nonsense, even though I might think so. Btw, I only have 5% of your posts so statistically I can't be in every thread and your nonsense-count is naturally way higher.

[MischiefSC]

Hey the two points closest to your spawn with fast mechs early, ball up to fight at Theta. Win on kills but keep the three points if at all possible. If you're 100+ points behind and NOT significantly ahead on kills, flip priorities and try to pull a cap win. Slow mechs try to tie up the bulk of the enemy, fast mechs do NOT split up but wolfpack cap.

[Johnny Z]

Conquest has resulted in some epic close matches, where a win can be done with smart moves and great game play. A really close conquest match is a gg good game for both teams.

Some say in match and in this topic, fight then capture and they couldn't be more wrong. That results in a loss every time against a decent team. They are just trying to ruin an excellent game mode.

Edited by Johnny Z, 25 October 2017 - 02:39 PM.

[GuardDogg]

When people say, fight first, cap last, takes the meaning what Conquest is all about. Noticed all game types: Assault, Conquest, Domination, Incursion is all about skirmish battles. That is why most dislikes escort, but not myself though. In Escort, everyone will leave the VIP alone, and both sides end up battling it out in center of map. And in conquest, everyone goes to theta. Assault sit way in the back of team hiding, sniping, LRM boating, while the lights do the assaulting (fighting), and mediums are pop tarting, heavies capping. It is why have all these modes if all game types ends up being a skirmish match. Assault mechs are malleable, and lights are invincible. Doesn't make sense.

Edited by GuardDogg, 25 October 2017 - 03:25 PM.

[MischiefSC]

The point of any objective in the game is to give tools to manipulate when, where and how the fight takes place - not to avoid the fight completely. Escort turns into a big fight but if you don't engage far enough from the VIP or fast enouhh the VIP will come under fire and the other team will rush and kill the VIP. Incursion if you just NASCAR the other team will wipe you so it forces a more direct conflict and you need lights who can deal with a base push. All the objectives add another strategic layer to the fight but the fight is the point of every match.

This is a FPS about fighting/shooting robbits. Fighting should be the focus of every match.

[arcana75]

Somehow every thread in this forum derails into some pissing contest about something else other than what the thread was supposed to be about

Anyway whether lights should fight or cap in Conquest, shouldn't that be an entirely situational decision rather than black or white? If a full lance of lights go off capping, while the main force has to contend with 12 enemies including lights, blue force will be crushed, then the lance of lights is doomed and the game lost. Conversely, if blue team focuses on fighting, a few lights could sneakily cap and win the match despite having all the kills by blue.

Instead there should be active monitoring of the tickets and cap points. If not needed to cap, the lights most definitely should come back to the fight rather than go sneak behind enemy lines to cap: a quick points-mostly win with low c-bills and xp is truly a Pyrrhic victory. But if your team is down by points and caps and red team is in the 500 pt range, yes the lights better stop fighting and go cap, while the remaining force pulls back and conducts delay actions. Unfortunately in QP, things don't go that smoothly.

I've had my fair share of fighting first, killing off red team and snatching the win with only a few points between the 2 teams, or simply not making it in time despite killing off the entire team, then the chaps complaining how the lights didn't do their job. Well...

[Jack Booted Thug]

arcana75, on 25 October 2017 - 05:59 PM, said:

Somehow every thread in this forum derails into some pissing contest about something else other than what the thread was supposed to be about

Anyway whether lights should fight or cap in Conquest, shouldn't that be an entirely situational decision rather than black or white? If a full lance of lights go off capping, while the main force has to contend with 12 enemies including lights, blue force will be crushed, then the lance of lights is doomed and the game lost. Conversely, if blue team focuses on fighting, a few lights could sneakily cap and win the match despite having all the kills by blue.

Instead there should be active monitoring of the tickets and cap points. If not needed to cap, the lights most definitely should come back to the fight rather than go sneak behind enemy lines to cap: a quick points-mostly win with low c-bills and xp is truly a Pyrrhic victory. But if your team is down by points and caps and red team is in the 500 pt range, yes the lights better stop fighting and go cap, while the remaining force pulls back and conducts delay actions. Unfortunately in QP, things don't go that smoothly.

I've had my fair share of fighting first, killing off red team and snatching the win with only a few points between the 2 teams, or simply not making it in time despite killing off the entire team, then the chaps complaining how the lights didn't do their job. Well...

Your post was somewhat rationale, that has no place in this thread. Be gone..

[Vellron2005]

Paigan, on 24 October 2017 - 04:12 AM, said:

Uhm, what?

First of all:
First kill, then cap. Something like 9 out of 10 conquest matches are decided via kills and the winning team is just (re)capping everything. Yes, conquest is just 90% skirmish with a side objective.
So as a general rule of thumb, everyone capping that is not the single fastest/weakest light in the team or that went that way anyway is more hurting than helping the team.

Second:
Those few CB you get from a few cap ticks more are so insignificantly tiny that even opening this thread is a waste in comparisons.
There are regular events that SH*T MILLIONS of CB over you just for playing a few matches that you probably would have, anyway.
Everyone who struggles to have enough CBs is doing something terribly wrong in this game. E.g. constantly buying and selling stuff (= destroying money, about the only way possible in this game) or being locked in primitive collector drives and trying to buy ALL Mechs there are.

I've seen plenty of matches where people used just that "first kill then cap" tactic, and lost because the last guy was clever enough to evade and cap, or the enemy was too far ahead in points, or the guys left standing were to slow to reach the caps in time..

I always say, "lights and fast mediums cap, all heavier / slower mechs fight"

As far as OP's request - if the people in this game cared about eachother, the game would look veeeery differently.. I suggest you get into a unit and play with people who understand the concept of a team..

[arcana75]

Vellron2005, on 26 October 2017 - 12:29 AM, said:

As far as OP's request - if the people in this game cared about eachother, the game would look veeeery differently.. I suggest you get into a unit and play with people who understand the concept of a team..

Well no matter what people think, I do it now anyway. If I'm in a fast medium in Bravo lance, and I am near a cap and I see a team mate just a few seconds behind me, I'll stop and wait and enter the zone together. I am not advocating waiting too long as well as it might cost the team a win, but a few tickets? Bah I'll wait. Hopefully others will see this weird behaviour more often and start to emulate it.