122 replies to this topic

[El Bandito]

Xavori, on 01 November 2017 - 06:41 PM, said:

The only way I'm buying the Lanner is if that does in fact happen. Otherwise, it's just gonna collect dust since it's undergunned for quick play. On the other hand, if it's added to scouting, I'd buy it in a moment, including the hero, because I think it can hold position behind a Bushwacker, and the Clan desperately needs something in scouting to counter that beast.

Black Lamer will never hold a candle to Bushwacker, unless it stays far away. But other Clan Mediums already can do that.

Gas Guzzler, on 01 November 2017 - 10:54 PM, said:

3 SRM6a should be very Assassin-esque..

Assassin works with SRM6s because not only it has the speed, it has excellent hitboxes, JJs, and durability quirks to ensure its survival at close range. Black Lamer's hitboxes, while better than TT version, are still too easy to isolate--not to mention they will have much bigger size. I can already say that the Lamer is gonna be super easy to leg.

Besides, Clans already have Linebackers to cheese with, in FP. Lamer is definitely not gonna replace that.

Edited by El Bandito, 01 November 2017 - 11:09 PM.

[Jackal Noble]

Ok a more serious assessment, now that I have had a good cooldown from my initial disappointment that it wasn't the Vapes.

It won't be absolutely attrocious, because of the lighter energy and machine gun combinations possible with that tonnage.
In the same vein as the linebacker, which is of a similar capacity. I'm betting it's likely gonna get some hefty armor quirks to make up for it's other deficiencies

[El Bandito]

Mcgral18, on 01 November 2017 - 08:00 PM, said:

My opinion? Above mediocre. Nothing world breaking, but should be adequate. That's because of the 6E arm, which hopefully doesn't get NegaQuirks
Will likely launch with quirks, be it over or underquirked, TBD

Of course it is gonna be above mediocre thanks to Clan tech. Within Clan line ups though, it is meh.

[The Mysterious Fox]

ecm, good enough energy hardpoints, masc. looks like a really good peeking skirmisher. the asymmetrical design is nice and hopefully the animation wont flake out like everything since civil war so far

[Jay Leon Hart]

FireStoat, on 01 November 2017 - 04:30 PM, said:

1) Clans need to come back up to 55 tons for scouting.

Agreed, let's at least see what that does for a while.

FireStoat, on 01 November 2017 - 04:30 PM, said:

2) Clan Omnimechs finally need to have the ability to change engine sizes with the possible addition to swap out other features (jump jets, masc, active probe).

That's too much. I'd say;

- No more locked equipment other than JJs & MASC
- Engine can be swapped for a same rating or same tonnage engine
- Non-JJ variant for any JJ-locked 'mech
- Can add/remove heat sinks to/from the engine

[Vellron2005]

The design looks very similar to a Cougar, with a f***ed up right arm.. I love how the legs look, although yes, they will be prime targets, so hope they get some structure/armor quirks..

An ECM 55 tonner will come in handy, though it's a shame that it won't be scouting viable..

[Guile Votoms]

Looks like a beefed-up Cougar.

Anyways, it's 55 tons so can we finally get 55 tons back for clan scouting?

[Dr Hobo]

FireStoat, on 01 November 2017 - 04:30 PM, said:

If PGI wants this thing to sell with a GOOD profit margin, I mean the kind of profit score they nailed with the Marauder IIC, two things need to happen.

1) Clans need to come back up to 55 tons for scouting.
2) Clan Omnimechs finally need to have the ability to change engine sizes with the possible addition to swap out other features (jump jets, masc, active probe).

If it doesn't happen, this thing will sell like stale bread. The community has wised up since the Uziel.

1-Maybe,but only if it's Stars V Lances.

No on 2.

Breaks construction rules. Sorry,I can't agree to that one. If you do that,you might as well start giving the IS mixtech and we can totally throw IS tech out the window at this point.

I could compromise on *possibly* removing some fixed gear,but not engines. Because of all the hardwire rules for Omnimech construction.

AS for the mech itself?

It's just a bigger Cougar/Shadowcat/Viper.

And it's gonna have the same problems as the Cougar. Too wide for it's own good,and it's legs will get shot out all the time.

Edited by Dr Hobo, 02 November 2017 - 02:31 AM.

[Guile Votoms]

FireStoat, on 01 November 2017 - 04:30 PM, said:

Clan Omnimechs finally need to have the ability to change engine sizes with the possible addition to swap out other features (jump jets, masc, active probe).

Yeah sure, but in return remove the ability to cherry-pick hardpoints.
Maybe we can bring back Re-Arm&Repair and give omnis a discount on that.

[Jay Leon Hart]

LT. HARDCASE, on 01 November 2017 - 07:42 PM, said:

A blatantly mediocre mech that isn't even in Gas Guzzler's mech pack poll wins. That is good business sense.

It was the top voted Clan Medium, but was removed once announced.

You can read all about it in the thread.

[Nightbird]

Whatever, I got my Piranha so I'm happy And it's not an assault so Gas doesn't care

[Angel of Annihilation]

Been reading through the post and the reality is there are lots of problems with this mech.

First, it has a 385 XL but you will notice all the variants show only 10 DHS which means, you have 5 unused and unusable DHS slots in the engine.

Second, even though it is fast, it is a 55 ton mech which means your not going to be able to use that speed as armor like you would a tiny little light mech.

Third, lack of tonnage for weapons and DHS. 11-12 tons isn't much to work with. Most powerful weapon you have at your disposal is going to be the HML which is very hot which in turn will make it very hard to cool any more than couple of the HML's effectively.

Fourth, Hard points selection is pretty bad. Almost all the weapon mounts are in the arms which as we all know tend to get blown off quickly.

In all honestly, I think that there will be a few select builds that might be interesting but it isn't going to be a powerhouse in any way shape or form. Biggest issue from the pre-order perspective is how bad the basic pack is. If I could get access to the D variant with the Basic Pack I think I might buy it and give it a shot. 4-5 ER SL, 4 LMGs, 2SRM6s and ECM on a mech that fast with that much armor might actually be fun. That is up to a 49 point alpha not including the LMGs. Short ranged as hell but it might actually be fun. However since those pods are behind the Reinforcement Paywall unless you want to invest heavily, you might as well just wait until everything is out for C-bills anyway.

I could also see another potential build and that is to outfit something like I do with my Purifier. Put put 4-5 ER MLs on it with ECM equipped and harrass from about 400-450m out. Those high mounts should make it possible just like they do on the Purifier. Do it right and all the enemy will see is that they are getting hit by some ghost way off in the distance. If they see you and turn their attention to you, just kick in the MASC, run and re-position preferably off on the flank a bit.

Anyway, the only way I think I would purchase would be if they rearranged it so the D variant or at least the D variant pods was part of the Basic Pack, then I would risk $20 on it being at least decent. Without that though, I see 3 mechs that I might be able to get one decent build out of and that isn't worth $20.

[SmokedJag]

El Bandito, on 01 November 2017 - 11:03 PM, said:

Black Lamer will never hold a candle to Bushwacker, unless it stays far away. But other Clan Mediums already can do that.



Assassin works with SRM6s because not only it has the speed, it has excellent hitboxes, JJs, and durability quirks to ensure its survival at close range. Black Lamer's hitboxes, while better than TT version, are still too easy to isolate--not to mention they will have much bigger size. I can already say that the Lamer is gonna be super easy to leg.

Besides, Clans already have Linebackers to cheese with, in FP. Lamer is definitely not gonna replace that.

Clans also now have Arctic Wolf *BattleMechs* that are 15 tons lighter than this but can carry 28 or more SRM tubes with a higher baseline speed. Hell, the Omni version can carry 4xSRM6 plus two lasers and ECM and jets.

These things are fragile as heck but since they're extremely fast or at least decently fast with stealth and vertical mobility, they're plenty deadly.

Edited by SmokedJag, 02 November 2017 - 05:38 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

JackalBeast, on 01 November 2017 - 10:58 PM, said:

unfortunately, an Assassin laughs at 3 SRM6A. But then again the Assassin is a bit of an outlier atm. I love my Assassins, don't run em enough.

What are you talking about? What do you think the Assassin runs?

Nightbird, on 02 November 2017 - 04:40 AM, said:

Whatever, I got my Piranha so I'm happy And it's not an assault so Gas doesn't care

Eh, I'm gonna get it. It looks like fun.

[Gas Guzzler]

El Bandito, on 01 November 2017 - 11:03 PM, said:

Assassin works with SRM6s because not only it has the speed, it has excellent hitboxes, JJs, and durability quirks to ensure its survival at close range. Black Lamer's hitboxes, while better than TT version, are still too easy to isolate--not to mention they will have much bigger size. I can already say that the Lamer is gonna be super easy to leg.

Besides, Clans already have Linebackers to cheese with, in FP. Lamer is definitely not gonna replace that.

We won't know some of these details until it drops, but I fail to see how those things all of a sudden makes SRM6s not work. This mech should be excellent at engaging and then disengaging.

Anyway, I'm gonna get it. Looks like a lot of fun, but I have to LOL at all the Clam loyalists who insisted that the Nightstar was going to compete with Deathstrike and are now saying that their new mech is garbage.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 02 November 2017 - 07:48 AM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

JackalBeast, on 01 November 2017 - 11:21 PM, said:

Ok a more serious assessment, now that I have had a good cooldown from my initial disappointment that it wasn't the Vapes.

It won't be absolutely attrocious, because of the lighter energy and machine gun combinations possible with that tonnage.
In the same vein as the linebacker, which is of a similar capacity. I'm betting it's likely gonna get some hefty armor quirks to make up for it's other deficiencies

Yeah alot of it is going to depend on quirks. Alot of people pointed out that everyone thought the Linebacker would be bad when it was announced but it turned out pretty good well that only happened because it had massive quirks applied to increase its agility to almost absurd levels. Basically put enough quirks on something and yeah you can actually polish a t u r d hehe.

That being the case this mechs viability will be greatly determined by its quirks which means it will be a hard purchase to justify in my mind. I mean you really have to take the plunge and "Trust" PGI to quirk the hell out of it because quirks are generally only disclosed a few days before release.

I would still purchase it if the D variant was swapped in to be part of the basic pack but without access to those pods right off the bat, I just don't see many strong builds for it.

[Jackal Noble]

Gas Guzzler, on 02 November 2017 - 07:43 AM, said:

What are you talking about? What do you think the Assassin runs?

What about that was hard to interpret? 3 Clan Srm6A is a garbage loadout for a 55 ton mech first of all (I run 4 on the ACW1 and it goes 130 and carries 5 tons of ammo), but especially against an Assassin which can handle the output of that weapon because it will be able to fire twice before the C-SRM6A has cooled from the first salvo. The Assassin you see in scouting runs 4 SRM4 btw, which is superior against 3 C-SRM6A because of Cooldown. Go reread my comment.

Edited by JackalBeast, 02 November 2017 - 09:27 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

JackalBeast, on 02 November 2017 - 09:26 AM, said:

What about that was hard to interpret? 3 Clan Srm6A is a garbage loadout for a 55 ton mech first of all (I run 4 on the ACW1 and it goes 130 and carries 5 tons of ammo), but especially against an Assassin which can handle the output of that weapon because it will be able to fire twice before the C-SRM6A has cooled from the first salvo. The Assassin you see in scouting runs 4 SRM4 btw, which is superior against 3 C-SRM6A because of Cooldown. Go reread my comment.

You made it sound like the Assassin had more than 3 SRM6a worth of firepower. It doesn't.

And if you have a hard on for SRM4s, the Lanner can take 4 4's as well, and NOT have an IS XL and have MASC and sprint faster than an Assassin. So.. meh. The Assassin is probably a little bit better, but still, no slouch here. One of the variants that actually does well has *gasp* 3 SRM6a, it just does the short range corner poke/non-DPS role better than the 4 4's version.

Where was the optimism you had while discussing the Nightstar even though it was blatantly inferior to already available options??? Its interesting that it is gone now.

Also, since we can just compare SRM weapon stats in a vacuum (apparently), your ACW-1 is clearly superior to the Assassin. So ggclose Clamz win again.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 02 November 2017 - 09:41 AM.

[FireStoat]

Dr Hobo, on 02 November 2017 - 02:30 AM, said:

1-Maybe,but only if it's Stars V Lances.

I wrote what I did only in the light of pure sales / profit from the strange situation of this mech. If it's not allowed for scouting, the mech will only be bought by people who enjoy the gameplay of the Viper and Linebacker mechs. That's not an especially huge following. If the door is opened up for its use in Scouting, some additional people will purchase it - but only AFTER its release and its merits are tested in game.

Look at the mech's legs. It's going to be yet another tippy-toed tall beast like the Madcat Mk II.

In order to match the Mad IIC's sales figures, more would have to happen, which is exactly why I mentioned breaking the engine / equipment rules finally so they would match old table top. Am I advocating that should happen? Nope. Or at least, not before a half dozen or more critical design flaws of the game are cured. At any rate, this game is nearing the end of its product life cycle so all of this is a moot point.

[Stridercal]

Jay Leon Hart, on 02 November 2017 - 01:12 AM, said:

Agreed, let's at least see what that does for a while.


That's too much. I'd say;

- No more locked equipment other than JJs & MASC
- Engine can be swapped for a same rating or same tonnage engine
- Non-JJ variant for any JJ-locked 'mech
- Can add/remove heat sinks to/from the engine

Never going to break the TT rules like this.