68 replies to this topic

[Jackal Noble]

Gas Guzzler, on 03 November 2017 - 08:10 AM, said:

It'll be fine... above average medium for sure.

Albeit heavily armored or agile you think?

Or heat hen quirks

[Gas Guzzler]

JackalBeast, on 03 November 2017 - 08:13 AM, said:

Albeit heavily armored or agile you think?

IMO it should get similar durability buffs to the Linebacker, scaled down to a 55 tonner, but after that, yeah its agility should be legendary.

[Tarogato]

Gas Guzzler, on 03 November 2017 - 08:13 AM, said:

Trust me, I think the Vapor Eagle would have been cool too (if a little overlappy in terms of roles with the Stormcrow), but this mech isn't going to be nearly as bad as people think.

Actually, while the Vapour Eagle *can* run a large engine and be overlappy with the Stormcrow, I expect that the best builds for it will run smaller engines, getting firepower more akin to what we see on the HBK-IIC.



VPE-1

Weapons	DHS	JJs	Special	Toggles	Engine	Speed
1x cHLL + 3x cERML + 4x cLMG (2.0ton)	19	1	-	cEndo + cFerro	cXL355	104.6
4x cMPL + 4x cLMG (1.5ton)	16	1	-	cEndo + cFerro	cXL370	109
2x cHLL + 2x cERML	20	1	-	cEndo + cFerro	cXL350	103.1
2x cERPPC	20	3	TC2	cEndo + cFerro	cXL325	95.7
4x cUAC2 (8.0ton)	12	1	all left-mounted	cEndo + cFerro	cXL265	78.1
2x cLB10 (4.0ton) + 4x cERSL	11	1	-	cEndo + cFerro	cXL295	86.9
1x cGauss (2.0ton) + 1x cHLL + 3x cERML	17	1	-	cEndo + cFerro	cXL285	83.9
1x cUAC10 (3.0ton) + 4x cMPL	17	1	-	cEndo + cFerro	cXL285	83.9
1x cUAC20 (4.0ton) + 4x cERML	18	1	-	cEndo + cFerro	cXL285	83.9
1x cATM12 (5.0ton) + 4x cERSL	17	1	-	cEndo + cFerro	cXL300	88.4
2x cSRM6a (2.0ton) + 4x cMPL	19	1	-	cEndo + cFerro	cXL325	95.7
2x cSRM6a (2.5ton) + 4x cERSL + 4x cLMG (2.0ton)	16	1	-	cEndo + cFerro	cXL360	106

VPE-2

Weapons	DHS	JJs	Special	Toggles	Engine	Speed
2x cHLL + 5x cLMG (3.0ton)	17	6	-	cEndo + cFerro	cXL340	100.1
2x UAC5 (4.0ton) + 2x UAC2 (3.0ton)	10	1	all left-mounted	cEndo + cFerro	cXL255	75.1
---- following builds assume hardpoint inflation: ----
4x cMPL + 6x cLMG (3.0ton)	16	4	-	cEndo + cFerro	cXL350	103.1

VPE-3

Weapons	DHS	JJs	Special	Toggles	Engine	Speed
3x cSRM6a (4.0ton) + 4x cERML	19	1	-	cEndo + cFerro	cXL315	92.8
2x cATM3 + 1x cATM9 (4.0ton) + 4x cERML	18	1	-	cEndo + cFerro	cXL315	92.8
---- following builds assume hardpoint inflation: ----
4x cSRM6a (5.0ton) + 4x cERSL	16	1	-	cEndo + cFerro	cXL330	97.2

VPE-4

Weapons	DHS	JJs	Special	Toggles	Engine	Speed
2x cHLL + 5x cERML	22	1	-	cEndo	cXL300	88.4
2x cSRM6a (3.0ton) + 6x cERSL	15	1	-	cEndo + cFerro	cXL375	110.5
2x cSRM4 (2.5ton) + 6x cMPL	20	1	-	cEndo + cFerro	cXL300	88.4
2x cATM9 (5.0ton) + 6x cERSL	18	1	-	cEndo	cXL285	83.9

*grumbles something about having to remake these tables because the last thread got locked and he couldn't just quote the post or copy the bbcode. Grumble.*

[HGAK47]

El Bandito, on 01 November 2017 - 11:49 PM, said:

As I said before, join the IS side in FP and see just how superior IS mechs really are.

Black Lanner is purely mediocre, but within Clan lineups.

IS mechs are superior! ........... (In our hearts)

[Y E O N N E]

Gas Guzzler, on 03 November 2017 - 08:16 AM, said:

IMO it should get similar durability buffs to the Linebacker, scaled down to a 55 tonner, but after that, yeah its agility should be legendary.

Can my Shadowcat get legendary agility, too? That or armor, I'll take one of either since it has the JJs and JJs = less nice things.

[Lightfoot]

With ECM, okay mech. You can pray for quirks, but I wouldn't count on it. Clans just don't get them.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Lightfoot, on 03 November 2017 - 09:46 AM, said:

With ECM, okay mech. You can pray for quirks, but I wouldn't count on it. Clans just don't get them.

That isn't always the case, the Linebacker is a perfect example. You can't really see the quirks now because they got rolled into the performance profile of the mech when the engine desync happened but it had a truly massive amount of quirks, like 45% to accel/decel/turn plus tons of armor quirks. It is these quirks that make the Linebacker a good mech, without them it would be crappy.

On the other hand, you bring up something that I don't think has cross anyone's mind yet. It has ECM. Traditionally, PGI does not quirk ECM mechs or not much at all, so the BL is going to have that Whammy against it which might leave it quirkless.

[Y E O N N E]

Viktor Drake, on 03 November 2017 - 12:00 PM, said:

That isn't always the case, the Linebacker is a perfect example. You can't really see the quirks now because they got rolled into the performance profile of the mech when the engine desync happened but it had a truly massive amount of quirks, like 45% to accel/decel/turn plus tons of armor quirks. It is these quirks that make the Linebacker a good mech, without them it would be crappy.

On the other hand, you bring up something that I don't think has cross anyone's mind yet. It has ECM. Traditionally, PGI does not quirk ECM mechs or not much at all, so the BL is going to have that Whammy against it which might leave it quirkless.

Linebacker also has some fairly generous armor quirks.

Then there are other 'Mechs, like the Mist Lynx, which are quirked very well.

[panzer1b]

Im not gonna go all out and call DOA, since its the same sort of situation as the linebacker which i didnt have high hopes for (its one of the only decent fast clan brawlers right now), but i cant say i have high hopes for it, and i seriously doubt itll ever be "meta" viable with such an excessive amount of tonnage eaten by engine+MASC.

I mean even the bloody shadowcat has more tonnage available, and thats with a good 2 tons of worthless JJs (you want to keep ~2 JJs, but 6 is beyond overkill for most maps and runs stupidly hot) and depending on what you want out of it potentially 2 tons wasted on MASC. I mean if omnis somehow had the ability to remove at least some locked junk (BAP on MLX would be a huge deal, JJs on many mechs that have too many, MASC, ect) then this thing might have some viability (14t of guns isnt THAT bad), but you just cant fit enuff firepower to justify 55 tons of mech. That and unless its gets stupid amounts of quirks or crazy hitboxes, the crow will still obsolete it at anything but capping, over 100KPH, great hitboxes for spreading damage, agile, and over 20t of guns which gives it some real options to like you know, actually kill something on its own without having to prey on distracted targets (achilles heel of mechs like the viper, 1v1 its total fodder since it cant bring high firepower).

Anyways, i think its status is gonna depend entirely on quirks and agility. Its gonna NEED to have heat generation (no build that has more then ~30 alfa will get the heatsinks it needs to get some sort of DPS), prolly a good amount of armor (legs look like a critical weakness that are gonna really have to get armor), and ofc its gonna need very good baseline agility so it can actually get in and out of combat easily since 90% of the viable builds involve brawling range weapons. Still, im gonna wait and see, if it ends up like the linebacker i might get myself a nice 55t fast brawler, if it doesnt, well there is plenty of other mechs and its not like i actually have enough mechbays to get every mech in the game or something like it...

[Rusharn]

Everything will depend on it's acc/dec rate and turn speed. Fast doesn't mean anything if you can accelerate or decelerate or turn. MASC can help off set that, but MASC can only do so much. On the subject of MASC the Shadowcat's masc speed should be 130 without speed tweak and more like 142 with it.

[davoodoo]

I actually like its profile, assuming gun arms would have those high mounted hardpoints it would be great.

But why for the love of god are you putting engine bigger than 300 on 55 tonner, hell 275 already gives you reasonable speed of 81kph leaving you over 28 tons to play with for some silly vomit or dakka

remember that ebj goes at 81 kph and can carry 29 tons of nonsense, now drop its tonnage to 55 so you can fit 4 of those into fp, giving it similiar profile it would be my new favorite clan mech.

Edited by davoodoo, 03 November 2017 - 01:46 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

panzer1b, on 03 November 2017 - 12:50 PM, said:

Anyways, i think its status is gonna depend entirely on quirks and agility. Its gonna NEED to have heat generation (no build that has more then ~30 alfa will get the heatsinks it needs to get some sort of DPS), prolly a good amount of armor (legs look like a critical weakness that are gonna really have to get armor), and ofc its gonna need very good baseline agility so it can actually get in and out of combat easily since 90% of the viable builds involve brawling range weapons. Still, im gonna wait and see, if it ends up like the linebacker i might get myself a nice 55t fast brawler, if it doesnt, well there is plenty of other mechs and its not like i actually have enough mechbays to get every mech in the game or something like it...

This is pretty much how I feel. It has a good amount of hard points especially if you include the reinforcements and they allow you quite a bit of flexibility in what you can mount but it is damn near impossible to take advantage of those hard points and still have enough weight left over to actually mount DHS and cool those weapons. Also due to the limited tonnage, you aren't going to be able to mount anything heavier than a medium pulse laser on it if you want more than 2-3 weapons anyway. That means extremely short ranged which also mechs it needs to be extremely agility in order to play the hit and run game, especially at the size we can expect a 55 ton mech to be. Despite its top speeds it is still going to be easy to hit unless it can maneuver on a dime and duck and dodge in and out of cover very quickly. Also something to consider is that ECM is practically worthless on a mech at under 250m which is the range of most of the weapons you would mount on this mech so I am not even sure how beneficial ECM will be overall for most builds.

The only two builds I have really came up for it are:

5 x ER ML with ECM. Basically stand off at about 400m and use your ECM, cover and concealment to take shots of opportunity at the enemy while they are distracted by your frontline, non-ECM mechs. Works really well on my Purifier so I expect it will work on the BL.

5 X ER ML, 4 LMG and ECM - Variation on the above build that runs slight hotter but allows you to play it safe in the far second line for the early match, then head in late match to play clean up with the LMGs once the enemies armor has been stripped.

[Tarogato]

Oi, people.

Name some builds for mechs in the game that you'd like to see compared to the 'Lanner.

Like for instance,

Blanner with 9x cERSL
Viper with 9x cERSL

Blanner with 3x cSRM6a + 6x cERUL
Shadow Cat 4x cSRM6a

Blanner with cHLL/cERML
Stormcrow with cHLL/cERML


IS mechs builds are welcome too, like Phoenix Hawk, Dragon, Assassin, anything that goes similar speeds to the 'Lanner. An unfair comparison would be something like the HBK-IIC, because that mech is a completely different role - it's a slow medium focusing on firepower instead of mobility.

[Shifty McSwift]

High speed peeping and toughness? I am sure it will be a ridge snipers dream, mid range peepers too probably.

12 tons is still enough for 2 HLL and 4 HML.

[Y E O N N E]

Shifty McSwift, on 03 November 2017 - 05:02 PM, said:

High speed peeping and toughness? I am sure it will be a ridge snipers dream, mid range peepers too probably.

12 tons is still enough for 2 HLL and 4 HML.

64 heat on 10 DHS? Ouch.

[Shifty McSwift]

Yeonne Greene, on 03 November 2017 - 05:05 PM, said:

64 heat on 10 DHS? Ouch.

I mean if it doesn't cause them to explode I think most hill peepers prefer that maximising of heat to damage in single volleys, so it wouldn't surprise me at all. The main benefit is the acceleration/deceleration, but of course the hardpoint locations will make a big difference there too.

[Y E O N N E]

Shifty McSwift, on 03 November 2017 - 05:07 PM, said:

I mean if it doesn't cause them to explode I think most hill peepers prefer that maximising of heat to damage in single volleys, so it wouldn't surprise me at all. The main benefit is the acceleration/deceleration, but of course the hardpoint locations will make a big difference there too.

Heat cap with only 10 doubles is 50.

Better get those Heat Containment nodes.

Really, though, your average output over the match will be so low that you perform terribly more often than not.

[Shifty McSwift]

Yeonne Greene, on 03 November 2017 - 05:10 PM, said:

Heat cap with only 10 doubles is 50.

Better get those Heat Containment nodes.

Really, though, your average output over the match will be so low that you perform terribly more often than not.

Yeonne Greene, on 03 November 2017 - 05:10 PM, said:

Heat cap with only 10 doubles is 50.

Better get those Heat Containment nodes.

Really, though, your average output over the match will be so low that you perform terribly more often than not.

I am quite positive the most optimal builds won't use heavy lasers at all, 6ERML or 2 ERLL is probably the most likely build for that low tonnage and ridge peeping. Again the hardpoint locations matter a lot but if they are even half decent there is merit to tough fast moving sniper types. High accel/decel means that great ease of dodging at long ranges in particular too, making that toughness stand out all the more.

[Y E O N N E]

Shifty McSwift, on 03 November 2017 - 05:16 PM, said:

I am quite positive the most optimal builds won't use heavy lasers at all, 6ERML or 2 ERLL is probably the most likely build for that low tonnage and ridge peeping. Again the hardpoint locations matter a lot but if they are even half decent there is merit to tough fast moving sniper types. High accel/decel means that great ease of dodging at long ranges in particular too, making that toughness stand out all the more.

I think you'll find 6x ERML is about the sweet-spot for what you can realistically achieve going for big damage volleys. That, or four HML and some LMGs operating at shorter distances. ERLL poking will probably be a thing but, unless it gets some stupendous quirks to rate of fire, nothing to write home about compared to existing options.

[Tarogato]

Good thinking. I usually avoid cHML because they can only alpha 40 damage, and less range than cERML feels really weak to me. Maybe it's a great weapon for the 'Lanner, though. Hrmm. Will run numbers.