70 replies to this topic

[HGAK47]

Snubs could use a little less heat and a little more range. That or keep the current stats and drop a ton for the weapon weight perhaps?

[theta123]

HGAK47, on 05 November 2017 - 01:36 AM, said:

Snubs could use a little less heat and a little more range. That or keep the current stats and drop a ton for the weapon weight perhaps?

i would go with a bit less heat and a bit more range

[Cato Zilks]

Some of you are hopeless. I am not going to walk through the numbers again. Look on the previous page.

The snub is statistically one of the worst weapons in the game for its purpose. It is a low DPS high heat brawling weapon. Brawling weapons should be low heat with high DPS.

[Cato Zilks]

Ok, so I made a nice new spreadsheet for Snubs. I used two non-normal categories to help evaluate brawling weapons DPS/Rng and DPH/Rng. Dividing by the range of the weapon helps naturally bring brawling weapons to the front of these stats (lower optimal range makes for a lower divisor). It helps clump short ranged weapons together and give a good idea just how knife-fighty a weapon is. It should also give the snubby a good boost because I work from optimal range. These are not stats you would normally value, because extra range is good... but it helps for this evaluation.

(I also doubled the cooldown of UAC's from smurfys values to show their optimal rates. I also took flamers and MGs out of the list leaving a total of 94 weapons on the list.)

Here is the sheet.
https://docs.google....WJI9THQHKfBFCU/
Weapons in Green are brawling weapons that need ammo, orange is energy brawling weapons, blue is Snubs, and gray is sniper or lrm weapons.

For DPS the Snub is 55th.
For HPS the Snub is 86th.
For DPS/Rng the Snub is 33rd.
For DPH/Rng the Snub is 63rd.

So even when we try to boost weapons for their short range, we can see the snub nosed ppc is not stacking up. Even with the short optimal range of 270, the weapon trails near the back of the brawling pack just in terms of DPS. Once you take heat into account, the Snubs don't even make it into the same clumping as brawling weapons at all. Strangely, they end up with LRM20s

[Athom83]

What you fail to address; Minimum ranges, pinpoint vs spread vs duration weapons, and optimal dps of UACs due to random jam (around 1.2 times higher than similar AC due to jam chance/durrations).

[FLG 01]

The Snubs could need some help, that's true. But at the same time it would be unwise to ignore the synergy effects with ACs and the value of PPFLD for fast movers. In those aspects the LPL just does not cut it, even if it is the overall superior weapon (especially due to the GH).

What the SNPPC needs is simply a heat buff. It runs too hot, especially if you want to use it on a light or medium Mech - which is the natural role of the Snubs imo. Reducing the heat to 9 would help a lot.

Agent 0range, on 03 November 2017 - 05:35 AM, said:

It should have more velocity because the weapon is much more accurate on TT than a ppc due to its short range being 9 hexs(edit is has a better short range on TT than an ER PPC)

As a BT fan I like the idea a lot, although I am not sure it would solve the general problem.

[FupDup]

Agent 0range, on 03 November 2017 - 05:35 AM, said:

ranges and damage drop off matches TT the extreme range drop off matches the damage drop it has in TT beyond 9 hexs to its long range, it is exactly as i expected it to be. That said

It should have more velocity because the weapon is much more accurate on TT than a ppc due to its short range being 9 hexs(edit is has a better short range on TT than an ER PPC)

It should at the very least match the ppc for heat.

The issue with higher velocity is that it gives you higher accuracy at all ranges, not just short range. It actually benefits long range poking the most because leading isn't usually a big issue in CQB when people are right in your face.

The true way to translate the SNPPC's TT bonus would be to have a velocity drop-off where it starts fast but slows down rapidly.

[Khobai]

Quote

The true way to translate the SNPPC's TT bonus would be to have a velocity drop-off where it starts fast but slows down rapidly.

Except the SNPPC doesnt really need velocity in MWO. It hits things fine at the ranges its supposed to hit things at.

What the SNPPC needs is more reasons to use it over an ISLPL

11 damage or 10/1/1 damage and 8.5 heat is where Id set the SNPPC at

That gives it better damage than the ISLPL, its PPFLD damage too, but its got more heat and less range than the ISLPL. Balanced tradeoffs.

The higher damage also sets it apart from a normal PPC too. You get 1 extra damage (or 2 extra splash damage if its 10/1/1) and no min range in exchange for a substantial range reduction.

Lastly I would give PPCs two new skill nodes in the skill tree that would add the HUD disruption ability to PPCs. Again to help make PPCs different from lasers. It would disrupt/scramble enemy mech HUDs for 0.5-1 seconds causing them to lose all sensor/targeting information and their HUD would go all wonky and scrambled. And likewise id add EMP hardening to one of the weaker skills in the sensor tree (like target decay or sensor range) for players who want to counter the scramble effect, that way LRM boats dont get screwed since they generally take target decay anyway.

Maybe just make HUD disruption a X% chance though instead of automatic. Because being able to keep someones HUD constantly scrambled by chain firing LPPCs would probably be a bit much.



The same HUD disruption/scramble effect could be used for other applications as well. Damaged sensor system. Overheating penalty. Haywire pod for NARC. etc...

Edited by Khobai, 09 November 2017 - 11:06 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

Khobai, on 04 November 2017 - 01:27 PM, said:

its not meh at all

its still one of the better weapons

its just not god tier anymore

It never was god-tier, because of the 'Mechs it had to be used on.

[The6thMessenger]

Just buff their optimal range, and retain current maximum range. Easy.