196 replies to this topic

[TWIAFU]

Phoolan Devi, on 10 November 2017 - 06:16 AM, said:

I simply put it in the same ballpark! With waiting for the respawns you are needlessly extending the duration of the match without assisting victory.

In fact, if I realize I'm up against farmer boyz and there is no chance at turning the game, I will evade and hide. It's then up to the farmers if they want to waste their time or if they move on.

Phoolan Devi, on 10 November 2017 - 09:49 AM, said:

In this scenario my evading is not against CoC, since it doesn't prolong the match!

The CoCs are to prevent needless waste of time.

The use of the shutdown mechanic or avoiding contact with the enemy under the following situations may be classed as an act of non-participation, subject to evaluation and moderation actions by Support services:

Ceasing to meaningfully contribute for the remainder of the match if you still have support equipment, useful modules, or weapons (with any necessary ammo) available. Losing your primary weapon is not an acceptable excuse for hiding and/or shutting down if you still have a secondary weapon, a support-based item such as a TAG, or a consumable module available for use.

Running out the clock, or needlessly extending the duration of the match, in cases where doing so will not assist you towards victory.

Running out the clock or needlessly extending the duration of a Faction Play match in an attempt to keep a particular group or Unit in the current engagement for as long as possible, in cases where doing so will not assist you towards victory, is not considered an acceptable tactic.

Shine on!

[Phoolan Devi]

TWIAFU, on 10 November 2017 - 11:10 AM, said:

The use of the shutdown mechanic or avoiding contact with the enemy under the following situations may be classed as an act of non-participation, subject to evaluation and moderation actions by Support services:

Ceasing to meaningfully contribute for the remainder of the match if you still have support equipment, useful modules, or weapons (with any necessary ammo) available. Losing your primary weapon is not an acceptable excuse for hiding and/or shutting down if you still have a secondary weapon, a support-based item such as a TAG, or a consumable module available for use.

Running out the clock, or needlessly extending the duration of the match, in cases where doing so will not assist you towards victory.

Running out the clock or needlessly extending the duration of a Faction Play match in an attempt to keep a particular group or Unit in the current engagement for as long as possible, in cases where doing so will not assist you towards victory, is not considered an acceptable tactic.

Shine on!

Exactly! But NEDLESSLY EXTENDING THE MATCH is not what I am doing with evading/shutting down, but the farmer boys!

[CMetz]

Im sure its been said before, but honestly, ive been on both sides of the farm. If you get farmed in FP. It is because your team made errors that allowed it to happen. That is as blunt as i can put it. You missed the proper time to advance, or you cycled mechs poorly. FP is entirely cause and effect. Team coordinated aggression is the way to avoid spawn farming. Those of us that paid our dues in FP all learned that the hard way.

[TWIAFU]

Phoolan Devi, on 10 November 2017 - 11:18 AM, said:

Exactly! But NEDLESSLY EXTENDING THE MATCH is not what I am doing with evading/shutting down, but the farmer boys!

So, if you are getting crushed by a superior enemy, you run away and hide and do not fight the enemy.

You wait, hiding, for the enemy to come and find you, avoiding contact.

The enemy is in violation of the CoC by extending the match by looking for you while you are hiding.

Wow.

Just wow.

[MischiefSC]

TWIAFU, on 10 November 2017 - 12:28 PM, said:

So, if you are getting crushed by a superior enemy, you run away and hide and do not fight the enemy.

You wait, hiding, for the enemy to come and find you, avoiding contact.

The enemy is in violation of the CoC by extending the match by looking for you while you are hiding.

Wow.

Just wow.

The human brain does some crazy stuff. When someone gets a bad idea stuck in their head (for example the idea that if they lose a match in a computer game and the other guy actually kills all the enemy it's somehow immoral or has some sort of moral component, because that soothes the nutbars ego about having lost and being unwilling to actually put in the effort to improve) that bad idea gets ferociously defended. Essentially that bad idea gets protected just as hard as if you were trying to talk them into eating broken glass or taking self-destructive steps.

No hyperbole there; it's literally that defensive. They twist logic, they shut down, they vehemently resist that information. It's a combo of the nifty tricks our brain does called confirmation bias, backfire effect and cognitive dissonance. To avoid a really nerdy explanation here's a very funny link to what the Oatmeal wrote on the backfire effect, which is mostly what you see on this forum.

We all do it. You, me, everyone. Good to know about and keep in mind in your own responses to stuff.... so you don't look like a nitwit trying to take stuff out of context and do verbal and mental gymnastics to try and justify a clearly, demonstratively silly position like someone I wouldn't name to avoid name and shame - or end up trying to have a logical conversation with someone like that.

[ANOM O MECH]

MischiefSC, on 10 November 2017 - 01:45 PM, said:

The human brain does some crazy stuff. When someone gets a bad idea stuck in their head (for example the idea that if they lose a match in a computer game and the other guy actually kills all the enemy it's somehow immoral or has some sort of moral component, because that soothes the nutbars ego about having lost and being unwilling to actually put in the effort to improve) that bad idea gets ferociously defended. Essentially that bad idea gets protected just as hard as if you were trying to talk them into eating broken glass or taking self-destructive steps.

No hyperbole there; it's literally that defensive. They twist logic, they shut down, they vehemently resist that information. It's a combo of the nifty tricks our brain does called confirmation bias, backfire effect and cognitive dissonance. To avoid a really nerdy explanation here's a very funny link to what the Oatmeal wrote on the backfire effect, which is mostly what you see on this forum.

We all do it. You, me, everyone. Good to know about and keep in mind in your own responses to stuff.... so you don't look like a nitwit trying to take stuff out of context and do verbal and mental gymnastics to try and justify a clearly, demonstratively silly position like someone I wouldn't name to avoid name and shame - or end up trying to have a logical conversation with someone like that.

I am having trouble with how dug in he is. It's hard to imagine after Twiafu whips out the clip from CoC spelling out how shutting down and hiding is not ok, he brushes it off by focusing on what he feels is justification. I hope people catch him doing this kind of nonsense and not only use in game report (which isn't great) but screen cap it and email support which works much better. If I catch him, I will also reference this thread.

[Phoolan Devi]

TWIAFU, on 10 November 2017 - 12:28 PM, said:

So, if you are getting crushed by a superior enemy, you run away and hide and do not fight the enemy.

You wait, hiding, for the enemy to come and find you, avoiding contact.

The enemy is in violation of the CoC by extending the match by looking for you while you are hiding.

Wow.

Just wow.

Wow....yes, that's what I am thinking too.

Does the enemy have to look for me to win the match? No! Could the enemy just finish off the game and win? Yes!

[Phoolan Devi]

MischiefSC, on 10 November 2017 - 01:45 PM, said:

The human brain does some crazy stuff. When someone gets a bad idea stuck in their head (for example the idea that if they lose a match in a computer game and the other guy actually kills all the enemy it's somehow immoral or has some sort of moral component, because that soothes the nutbars ego about having lost and being unwilling to actually put in the effort to improve) that bad idea gets ferociously defended. Essentially that bad idea gets protected just as hard as if you were trying to talk them into eating broken glass or taking self-destructive steps.

No hyperbole there; it's literally that defensive. They twist logic, they shut down, they vehemently resist that information. It's a combo of the nifty tricks our brain does called confirmation bias, backfire effect and cognitive dissonance. To avoid a really nerdy explanation here's a very funny link to what the Oatmeal wrote on the backfire effect, which is mostly what you see on this forum.

We all do it. You, me, everyone. Good to know about and keep in mind in your own responses to stuff.... so you don't look like a nitwit trying to take stuff out of context and do verbal and mental gymnastics to try and justify a clearly, demonstratively silly position like someone I wouldn't name to avoid name and shame - or end up trying to have a logical conversation with someone like that.

tker 669, on 10 November 2017 - 02:33 PM, said:

I am having trouble with how dug in he is. It's hard to imagine after Twiafu whips out the clip from CoC spelling out how shutting down and hiding is not ok, he brushes it off by focusing on what he feels is justification. I hope people catch him doing this kind of nonsense and not only use in game report (which isn't great) but screen cap it and email support which works much better. If I catch him, I will also reference this thread.

Just a question.

Do you guys find team kill justified if one doesn't participate in farming and goes for the objective?

Btw tker 669 (interesting name btw^^) what would be the violation that you would report me for?

Edited by Phoolan Devi, 10 November 2017 - 03:21 PM.

[PFC Carsten]

TWIAFU, on 10 November 2017 - 11:10 AM, said:

Running out the clock, or needlessly extending the duration of the match, in cases where doing so will not assist you towards victory.

Running out the clock or needlessly extending the duration of a Faction Play match in an attempt to keep a particular group or Unit in the current engagement for as long as possible, in cases where doing so will not assist you towards victory, is not considered an acceptable tactic.

Funnily enough, keeping players busy in one match, preventing them to enter another, can very well assist one towards victory - in the fight for control of a planet, not necessarily in that very match. CoC should be worded more accurately. Go to your masters and tell them!

[ANOM O MECH]

Phoolan Devi, on 10 November 2017 - 03:18 PM, said:

Just a question.

Do you guys find team kill justified if one doesn't participate in farming and goes for the objective?

Btw tker 669 (interesting name btw^^) what would be the violation that you would report me for?

Go back and read what Twiafu spelled out clearly and concisely for you.

Hiding = Non-particpating

Trying to kill the mech in a mech combate game despite your ridiculous and almost impish at this point... I mean the mental gymnastics to actually say looking for a mech to shoot in this game. Do you really think people play this game to run to stand on a spot or shoot a generator thing???? Really?????

Twaifu really nailed it...the shine is blinding.

Tell you what I am going to do for you. I will contact support with screen shots of what you said about shutting down and hiding, and your responses (don't worry this one's free I will make you anonymous) and lets see what they have to say for clarification on the matter.

[ANOM O MECH]

PFC Carsten, on 10 November 2017 - 03:22 PM, said:

Funnily enough, keeping players busy in one match, preventing them to enter another, can very well assist one towards victory - in the fight for control of a planet, not necessarily in that very match. CoC should be worded more accurately. Go to your masters and tell them!

When there where units that could field 4 or 5 twelve mans at a go, tying them up was legit. I even remember groups spliting up to grab up and herd pugs to the stall them cause. None of it involved hiding to not be found but more camping in tough spots and making it hard to kill quickly.

With the population now? If a group decided to that it may be anoying but not really a point anymore...

Ah I do miss those days now where there was a tiny semblance of strategy when you had to decide if you were going to try and hold a planet or just let em have and attack only. But buckets and QP with respawns is what we have now.

[MischiefSC]

Phoolan Devi, on 10 November 2017 - 03:18 PM, said:

Just a question.

Do you guys find team kill justified if one doesn't participate in farming and goes for the objective?

Btw tker 669 (interesting name btw^^) what would be the violation that you would report me for?

Huh. Is teamkilling allowed in the CoC? is it an intentional part of the game, other than an accidental byproduct of having team damage possible?

I get that you're having to really, really skew stuff to try and add some vague sense of validity to an absolutely insane and irrational perspective but this is a bit of a stretch.

This is a PvP game based around shooting stompy robbits. All the games rewards are based around shooting stompy robbits. I get that you want to pretend that if you're losing the other team is somehow obligated to leave you alone and just quietly end the match for you, but they're absolutely not. It would, in fact, generally be silly for them to do so.

More to the point, let me help you out here -

If you were in the military and your unit was tasked with the destruction of an enemy military installation and you also have the opportunity to completely destroy the enemy garrison there in addition to destroying the objective with minimal or no risk to yourself and you DO NOT do so you will likely get in trouble. If you do so, you can get a commendation. Why? Because you're at war and the only point of your military objective is to help facilitate the destruction of enemy military assets. Unless directly advised otherwise it's taken as a given that you're suppose to destroy enemy forces at opportunity.

Beyond which... again, it's a game about shooting stompy robbits. That's why people play it. If you play it because you want to stand in boxes or shoot blocks, well, okay. Good on you. Whatever floats your boat. If you're going for the lore/RP stuff though you absolutely should leverage every opportunity to destroy enemy mechs. If you're just playing to shoot stompy robbits... then shoot stompy robbits.

Mostly though you're trying to pretend that it's against the rules to go fight enemy mechs if you can dunk it, which is flat out false. Please write to support and get your misconception cleared up directly by PGI.

[TWIAFU]

Phoolan Devi, on 10 November 2017 - 03:14 PM, said:

Wow....yes, that's what I am thinking too.

Does the enemy have to look for me to win the match? No! Could the enemy just finish off the game and win? Yes!

You are something special.

Your circular 'logic' is deeply ingrained to the point where pointing out the blatant fail in it is akin to yelling at a brick wall.

Yes, the enemy does want to finish the game, by killing you. But you are avoiding contact and combat, a clear violation of the CoC in black and white and clear to understand English while beating the snot out of your side is NOT a violation.

Now that we all can see your modus operandi in how you play, makes it all that easier to report you for it.

Hope your name NEVER shows on my side as your actions will be watched.

PFC Carsten, on 10 November 2017 - 03:22 PM, said:

Funnily enough, keeping players busy in one match, preventing them to enter another, can very well assist one towards victory - in the fight for control of a planet, not necessarily in that very match. CoC should be worded more accurately. Go to your masters and tell them!

That is already there. Read it next time and you will know that.

Phoolan Devi, on 10 November 2017 - 03:18 PM, said:

Just a question.

Do you guys find team kill justified if one doesn't participate in farming and goes for the objective?

Btw tker 669 (interesting name btw^^) what would be the violation that you would report me for?

TK is not allowed. Period. End of line. No if's and's or but's.

No further discussion.

BTW, this is a PVP game. I am here to kill you in the most horrible ways possible and I will do just that.

There is no crying in baseball and no safety blankets in war.

Edited by TWIAFU, 11 November 2017 - 05:14 AM.

[PFC Carsten]

TWIAFU, on 11 November 2017 - 05:09 AM, said:

That is already there. Read it next time and you will know that.

Re-read it and am still convinced that it's not worded carefully enough.

The corresponding entry from mwomercs.com/conduct:
„Running out the clock or needlessly extending the duration of a Faction Play match in an attempt to keep a particular group or Unit in the current engagement for as long as possible, in cases where doing so will not assist you towards victory, is not considered an acceptable tactic.“

What's a victory: Win the battle or win the war?

[ANOM O MECH]

PFC Carsten, on 11 November 2017 - 08:08 AM, said:

Re-read it and am still convinced that it's not worded carefully enough.

The corresponding entry from mwomercs.com/conduct:
„Running out the clock or needlessly extending the duration of a Faction Play match in an attempt to keep a particular group or Unit in the current engagement for as long as possible, in cases where doing so will not assist you towards victory, is not considered an acceptable tactic.“

What's a victory: Win the battle or win the war?

I get from that, that it is not acceptable to avoid fighting or to hide in order to run out the clock. My interpretation of the second sentance is that it is referring to if you are the last alive on conquest or some other mode where you being alive still allows for opportunity to win the game, then actively avoiding combat is acceptable because you can still win. I think you are right that it could be worded clearer.

[TWIAFU]

PFC Carsten, on 11 November 2017 - 08:08 AM, said:

Re-read it and am still convinced that it's not worded carefully enough.

The corresponding entry from mwomercs.com/conduct:
„Running out the clock or needlessly extending the duration of a Faction Play match in an attempt to keep a particular group or Unit in the current engagement for as long as possible, in cases where doing so will not assist you towards victory, is not considered an acceptable tactic.“

What's a victory: Win the battle or win the war?

That mean's if your Unit and mine are in a CW drop against each other, your Clan and I'm IS and your Unit is winning the Planet, we cannot intentionally extend the match to keep your specific Unit from finishing and going on the the next match and winning the Planet.

Victory in most cases here are referenced to that specific battle or drop.

That is different and separate from the CoC line about hiding/avoiding/shutdown to avoid contact and extend match. One is geared toward the individual pilot other geared toward a group/unit.

[McValium]

This thread has produced enough CoC offenses. Closed.