Just now with the exact loadout shown above.
First took on an Ebon Jaguar point blank. Hunchback IIC and his UAC/20 and UAC 10 combo, then a Hellbringer (which I ignored until I killed his Centurion buddy before I came back for him and had to chase him across the map, went face to face with an Executioner and ripped it to shreds before getting the Hellbringer hiding behind him. Engaged a cowardly Arctic Cheetah hiding on top of a building when a Misery tried to sneak up behind me, unfortunately when I turned around the Arctic Cheetah began taking out my second side torso leaving me ramming the enemy Misery with a small pulse laser. Figured the team could carry the rest but they got wiped out at some point. Ah well.
Monstrous alpha at mid-range, not where he's the strongest (the hitboxes favoring long-range most) but still being very good.
The alpha is very high with the MRM, UAC10 and 5ml, although very hot. But for me that's the most fun part about the build, being extremely in-your-face while also having to manage the heat.
You could of course go for a RAC5/LBX with a different MRM, but I'll leave that to your imagination.^^
Impressive again. Now, pilot skills play a huge part. I am pretty sure that I would not have done as good in your shoes.
Just to make sure, there is not skill that upgrade PPC guns right?
I just bought a Mad Cat Mk II package. I was confused. I thought it was including the Hero mech, while it's just regular variants. I just got them early. I forgot PGI does that. Not the best use of $$ :/
This being said I am having a LOT of fun with the Mkii-2 (ballistic and missiles). I suck with the Mkii-1 (I not good enough to be efficient with the double Gauss guns). I need to try to the Mkii-4 with a laser build.
As an IS Loyalist here, I would recommend you try your Orion - out of your owned mechs. My ON1-V has a ton of armor buffs, 3 SRM6's and an AC-20 (with a SPL for kicks) = 62.2 alpha. The caveat is it's a brawler and you have to be patient to get in range (270m).
If you are looking for a new strong IS medium, the Assassin is a highly mobile hard hitting chassis (XL 280 and 4 SRM6)
edit: Just saw your updated post - yeah, the Madcat MkII is a beast of an assault, enjoy it.
Welcome back!
Edited by bayoucowboy, 05 November 2017 - 04:02 PM.
Monstrous alpha at mid-range, not where he's the strongest (the hitboxes favoring long-range most) but still being very good.
The alpha is very high with the MRM, UAC10 and 5ml, although very hot. But for me that's the most fun part about the build, being extremely in-your-face while also having to manage the heat.
You could of course go for a RAC5/LBX with a different MRM, but I'll leave that to your imagination.^^
@Tereva
wrote you a PM btw^^
You'd be surprised.
PPCs and AC/5 sync up rather nicely for a "meta" punch.
The small pulse and small lasers provide a bit of punch alongside the AC/5 up close, along with the SRM-4. Their desync in firing rate ensures that while face-first in the enemy, there's a continuous barrage of fire. The fact that there's never more than a few small lasers hitting at once ensure that there is never a hit registration problem.
Continuous, non-stop damage, very low heat, unrelenting fire from which there is no break or pause.
Twisting can't save you because then you can't shoot back, if twisting even spares you anything at all (pro tip: it almost never does). There's literally no defense from it. The shape of the Misery also ensures that there are NO convergence issues even at point blank, so the damage always goes exactly where I want it. Meanwhile, all of the weapons from arms, torsos, etc.... are divided against my three torsos no matter where you are aiming because you're literally hugging me as I ram that phallic body right in your face, so all my damage is focused on a single body part and all of yours is spread across three body sections by force of geometry. Edit: Forgot to mention, the entire time I'm doing this I actually cool back to below 20% in about 8 seconds even as I'm continuously firing despite being above 95% by the time I ram you (from the PPC + AC/5 fire).
In the end it is a slapstick of misery and if for some reason you do what... literally EVERYONE does... and back away from me... welp as soon as you hit 90 meters, there's a full alpha and you're dead. And even if the first volley doesn't do it, by then the second volley's guaranteed to do it even on heavily armored Annihilators and I'm still plenty cold enough to take on the next guy. Get in his face, do the same thing, cool off and when he dies I move on to the next, then the next, then the next, endlessly until I'm dead or no one is left. This works even on Terra Therma, I just get one less PPC volley before reaching the point where I have to be in your face.
In terms of combat concept, it is similar to the Flamer Stalker of old.
Like this, but minus the shutting down (the very day I recorded this was on a patch day and they happened to change SRM-4s to be on the ghost heat list and I didn't know about it so every volley I'm getting ghost heat punishments; even so it makes short work of my foes. Also fantastic timing on the music).
You can also see this rig was PLAGUED with hit registration issues. (2.4 damage per missile and yet almost no damage from 5 SRM-4 launchers at once!? That's 48 damage per volley and yet... sometimes no damage.)
I learned very quickly when it comes to projectile weaponry if they hit too many at the same time, they are worthless. Some get lost to bad hit detection. (This is one of the reasons people complain about macros despite macros being very inferior to just alpha striking... because when you macro your fire, it hits at different times and as such, no hit registration loss!)
Or akin to these two.
However unlike this build which relies almost entirely on the RNG of Streaks while blinding enemies and it is a very hot build... my Misery cools as it spams fire (save for the PPCs), and as such it can do it all day long without rest. The concept is effectively the same. These were without the skill tree and its advantages, on a mech that didn't have any quirks going for it.
You may notice especially in the second match of the second video, I can completely afford to just ignore anything of 50 tons or less in favor of finishing my kills before dealing with them. The Stalkers tank that well and it only improves when a side torso is lost due to 60% damage reduction for hitting destroyed hitboxes.
Hey, don't get rid of your commando though, they have excellent hit boxes and can take a proper licking, hard to leg and with practice can smash assaults regularly, if you have the 2D for example try it with a light fusion 200 engine and 3 srm 2's and the ecm.
Also I noticed nobody seems to put much stock in the sensor skill tree, this is where all the great modules of old live, such as
Radar deprivation (get 100% missiles are still a thing)
Advanced zoom (not needed)
Seismic sensor(extremely useful)
360 degree target info retention (a bit useful)
Targeting time bonuses (you know where to shoot when you need to know, useful when your skills get back to their peak)
Also if you run ecm its pointless to do so without the sensor tree IMHO, ecm has been seriously nerfed as far as i'm aware without the two skills near the bottom
Take the ones you like, but never overlook radar dep if you find yourself in a light instantly losing that lock with only a few milliseconds of cover can make missiles look more silly than they already are.
All the other stuff people say is awesome, its such a tradeoff having to leave 180 odd points on the board but that is what makes the system so great.
Radar dep on assaults though, waste of time, you'll never find cover if you are caught in the open and a spotter nullifies it completely, only fast mechs can break line of sight quickly enough to make it really useful, better off getting survival and pushing hard.
bayoucowboy, on 05 November 2017 - 03:59 PM, said:
As an IS Loyalist here, I would recommend you try your Orion -.... My ON1-V has a ton of armor buffs, 3 SRM6's and an AC-20 (with a SPL for kicks) = 62.2 alpha. The caveat is it's a brawler and you have to be patient to get in range (270m).
How do you add armor? In skills >> Survival >> Armor hardening?
Do you need to free up some weight after to add the extra armor?
My ON1-V is stripped (I think I was done with it and add to switch to another variant at the time), but I run my protector with
- 2 medium lasers
- 1 AC10
- 2 SRM6
It was fun. Let's see how I do with it now : )
Questions about variants now. Assuming you have a variant that you like, there is absolutely no reason to play another one right?
In my case, the Protector and ON1-V are very similar. It's better than I run the Protector (Hero bonus on C-bill). Correct?
Same with the Mad Cat. No need to play anything than the Mk2 at this point (I have the Mk 1, Mk2 and Mk4).
Laser Kiwi, on 05 November 2017 - 05:03 PM, said:
Hey, don't get rid of your commando...
I mixed them them. I do not have any Commando, I have Firestarter ! Are they still relevant today?
Laser Kiwi, on 05 November 2017 - 05:03 PM, said:
Also I noticed nobody seems to put much stock in the sensor skill tree,
Radar deprivation (get 100% missiles are still a thing)
Advanced zoom (not needed)
Seismic sensor(extremely useful)
360 degree target info retention (a bit useful)
Targeting time bonuses (you know where to shoot when you need to know, useful when your skills get back to their peak)
Good point.
I like Advanced Zoom on my Raven 3L "sniper"
Laser Kiwi, on 05 November 2017 - 05:03 PM, said:
Also if you run ecm its pointless to do so without the sensor tree IMHO, ecm has been seriously nerfed as far as i'm aware without the two skills near the bottom
ok, good to know
Laser Kiwi, on 05 November 2017 - 05:03 PM, said:
Take the ones you like, but never overlook radar dep if you find yourself in a light instantly losing that lock with only a few milliseconds of cover can make missiles look more silly than they already are.
How do you add armor? In skills >> Survival >> Armor hardening? YES
Do you need to free up some weight after to add the extra armor? NOT FOR THE SKILL BONUS
My ON1-V is stripped (I think I was done with it and add to switch to another variant at the time), but I run my protector with
- 2 medium lasers
- 1 AC10
- 2 SRM6
It was fun. Let's see how I do with it now : )
Questions about variants now. Assuming you have a variant that you like, there is absolutely no reason to play another one right? YES - the only need for variants is hard point variety - this is mostly not applicable to CLAN OMNIMECHS due to their OMNIPODS
In my case, the Protector and ON1-V are very similar. It's better than I run the Protector (Hero bonus on C-bill). Correct? It's the SRM6/AC20 combo on the V that give it the punch. Your Protector will give you that C-Bill bonus, but it's alpha is lower.
MW5: Mercs. (PGI is making a single player sandbox experience, akin to Mechwarrior 1, MW2: Mercs, MW4: Mercs). Features include: Combined arms opposition (tanks, infantry, mechs, conventional aircraft currently confirmed. Destructible environments [far more so than in MWO]. Procedural map generation. Unreal Engine. Weapon variants. Free Market System and "modular" customization over "every aspect of your mech." But will lack an outright mechlab, ability to change armor/structure types, and a strong adherence to Battletech canon in regards to campaign-level customization rather than "create your own mech" customization as MWO uses. Years 3015 to 3049 concluding just at the start of the Clan invasion. (The first look put MWO to shame. We'll see how it turns out.)
Some known screens:
Spoiler
The amount of shells coming from the Jagermech excites me... Unlike the old video footage, it looks like at least in the case of the Jagermech, we have lore proper ACs!
I like the new colors, but prefer the shape of the old interface shown in the first image which have this dome-like view as if it is on your visor. This one looks too flat. The 'old' interface is also shown below.)
Battletech (PC Game), made by Jordan Weisman's Harebrained Schemes (the original creator of Battletech tabletop in the 1980s and FASA Co-Founder.) Turn based, fully fledged singleplayer campaign, post-plot sandbox and multiplayer versus experience with melee combat. Orion Punch! Shadowhawk Punch! Urbanmech Adding Insult to Injury
MW5: Mercs
I played Merchwarrior 1, it was a lot of fun at the time. I will probably go at the Mech_Con (I work one block away from the venue), so I will be able to test it, I will tell you.
BTW, anyone coming as well?
Battetech
Wow... I played at the tabletop game. God, it feels like one or two lifetimes away
Not sure about that one though. I do not know why but tabletop games on PC do not have the same appeal as the real thing. I just got in the close beta of Space Wars. The game seems to have a lot of depth and is well done, but I am not crazy about it at all.
Those videos are amazing though.
Yeah, I guess you'd need to run such a build to actually stay in tier 3 and beyond.
Besides, if you play against enemies that are actually capable of shooting straight your build will fall apart extremely fast.
I wanna mention one thing though: AC5 and PPC sync up quite well, (even if the PPC just isn't worth it) how is that meta?
Those are weapons that are available and both are projectiles with comparable velocities. It's obvious they'd like each other.
Yeah, I guess you'd need to run such a build to actually stay in tier 3 and beyond.
Besides, if you play against enemies that are actually capable of shooting straight your build will fall apart extremely fast.
I wanna mention one thing though: AC5 and PPC sync up quite well, (even if the PPC just isn't worth it) how is that meta?
Those are weapons that are available and both are projectiles with comparable velocities. It's obvious they'd like each other.
It's been meta (on and off) for almost 4 years. It has always worked better than PPC + Gauss. Thing is it drops down, raises up, drops down, etc. Lately its overshadowed because the skill tree's recent changes have made laser vomit of 100+ damage per shot completely viable. And just prior to it, extreme damage buffs to the large class lasers allowed 70+ damage alphas to be semi-viable, so it again overshadowed the old meta.
Prior to laser vomit being viable, back when lasers had beam times of 1.5 seconds at times, Gauss + PPC was the quentisential non-missile meta and the smarter end of that was twin PPCs + 1 or 2 AC/5s or 1 PPC and twin AC/5s (usually UAC/5s whenever possible).
I run the build actually when I want to move up. I'm sure you can see the PSR raises in each of those. Match scores above 150 while winning moves the PSR up regardless of the tier.
When I want to go back down the ladder, what I need to run is pure meta (gets me targeted very quickly) and then laser vomit with override on and only 10 DHS. Lets me pump out 70 to 100 damage, shutdown, and either explode or get slaughtered effectively lowering my "experience bar" to be in lower tiers.
Meta in today's sense is stupid, suicidal (unless abusing all of the stupid mechanical tweaks PGI's given us for the sake of fun; anyone ever notice that NO ONE wants to play on hot maps because the game would punish the meta-heads), and would never work in a real Mechwarrior/Battletech game.
(If anyone is curious about what I meant by how it would never work in a real Battletech Mechwarrior game, try running one of MWO's builds in MW3 or MW4. You'd explode instantly.)
For Battletech Pure stock Dire Wolf Prime fires all of its weapons spaced out across 10 seconds. Each fired once.
Spoiler
Spoiler
Megamek (tabletop) brawl.
Solaris Arena! (Just the map) Elevating platforms.
100 tons versus 100 tons.
Initiative Phase for Round #1
-------------------
Lordred rolls a 9[9+0].
Koniving rolls a 6[6+0].
Wind direction is Northeast. Wind strength is Calm. The weather is Clear. Visibility is Daylight.
Fog level is None.
????: ???? BV remaining (from ???? initially) ???? BV fled
Koniving: 2181 BV remaining (from 2181 initially) 0 BV fled
--------------------
Movement Phase
--------------------
The arena is relatively small.
The King Crab walks forward 30 meters with caution.
The Dire Wolf charges at full speed.
---------------------
Weapon Attack Phase
-------------------
Weapons fire for King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving)
PPC at Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Lordred); needs 6, rolls 7 : hits CT
Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Lordred) takes 10 damage to CT.
37 Armor remaining.
PPC at Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Lordred); needs 6, rolls 7 : hits RA
Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Lordred) takes 10 damage to RA.
24 Armor remaining.
LB 10-X AC at Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Lordred); needs 6, rolls 8 : hits RT
Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Lordred) takes 10 damage to RT.
22 Armor remaining.
LB 10-X AC at Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Lordred); needs 6, rolls 7 : hits LT
Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Lordred) takes 10 damage to LT.
22 Armor remaining.
Weapons fire for Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Lordred)
ER Large Laser at King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving); needs 5, rolls 2 : misses
ER Large Laser at King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving); needs 5, rolls 3 : misses
Medium Pulse Laser at King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving); needs 3, rolls 8 : - Direct Blow - hits LA
King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving) takes 8 damage to LA.
26 Armor remaining.
Medium Pulse Laser at King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving); needs 3, rolls 8 : - Direct Blow - hits CT
King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving) takes 8 damage to CT.
38 Armor remaining.
Ultra AC/5 at King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving); needs 5, rolls 7 :
King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving) takes 5 damage to RA.
29 Armor remaining.
fires a second burst in ultra mode.
Ultra AC/5 at King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving); needs 5, rolls 7 :
King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving) takes 5 damage to LL.
36 Armor remaining.
ER Large Laser at King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving); needs 5, rolls 2 : misses
ER Large Laser at King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving); needs 5, rolls 3 : misses
Medium Pulse Laser at King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving); needs 3, rolls 11 : - Direct Blow - hits LT
King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving) takes 9 damage to LT.
23 Armor remaining.
Medium Pulse Laser at King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving); needs 3, rolls 4 : hits CT
King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving) takes 7 damage to CT.
31 Armor remaining.
Ultra AC/5 at King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving); needs 5, rolls 8 : - Direct Blow -
King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving) takes 6 damage to RA.
23 Armor remaining.
fires a second burst in ultra mode.
Ultra AC/5 at King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving); needs 5, rolls 5 : - Glancing Blow -
King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving) takes 2 damage to LA.
24 Armor remaining.
LRM 10 at King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving); needs 5, rolls 8 : - Direct Blow - 6 missile(s) hit (w/ +2 bonus).
King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving) takes 5 damage to LA.
19 Armor remaining.
King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving) takes 1 damage to CT.
30 Armor remaining.
Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Lordred) must make 1 piloting skill roll(s) (20+ damage).
The base target is 4 [4 (Base piloting skill)].
Roll #1, (4 (Base piloting skill) + 1 (20+ damage)); needs 5, rolls 7 : succeeds.
King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving) must make 1 piloting skill roll(s) (20+ damage).
The base target is 5 [5 (Base piloting skill)].
Roll #1, (5 (Base piloting skill) + 1 (20+ damage)); needs 6, rolls 9 : succeeds.
Heat Phase
-------------------
Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Lordred) gains 73 heat, sinks 44 heat and is now at 29 heat.
Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Lordred) needs a 5+ to avoid shutdown, rolls 9 : avoids successfully!
Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Lordred) needs a 8+ to avoid ammo explosion, rolls 5 : fails to avoid explosion.
*** LRM 10 Ammo EXPLODES! 110 DAMAGE! ***
Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Lordred) takes 110 damage to LT.
SECTION DESTROYED,
LIMB BLOWN OFF Left Arm blown off.
remaining 89 damage prevented by CASE.
Critical hit on LT. Roll is 6; no effect.
Pilot of Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Lordred) "Bryan Otsuka" takes 2 damage.
Pilot of Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Lordred) "Bryan Otsuka" needs a 3 to stay conscious. Rolls 6 : successful!
Pilot of Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Lordred) "Bryan Otsuka" needs a 5 to stay conscious. Rolls 7 : successful!
Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime needs a 6+ for coolant failure, rolls 8 : fails.
Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime's coolant is now less effective.
King Crab KGC-010 (Koniving) gains 25 heat, sinks 20 heat and is now at 5 heat.
King Crab KGC-010 needs a 10+ for coolant failure, rolls 5 : avoids successfully!
Control Rolls
-------------------
End Phase
-------------------
Some walls moved...
Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Lordred) gains 73 heat, sinks 44 heat and is now at 29 heat.
Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Lordred) needs a 5+ to avoid shutdown, rolls 9 : avoids successfully!
Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Lordred) needs a 8+ to avoid ammo explosion, rolls 5 : fails to avoid explosion.
*** LRM 10 Ammo EXPLODES! 110 DAMAGE! ***
Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Lordred) takes 110 damage to LT.
SECTION DESTROYED,
LIMB BLOWN OFF Left Arm blown off.
remaining 89 damage prevented by CASE.
Critical hit on LT. Roll is 6; no effect.
Pilot of Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Lordred) "Bryan Otsuka" takes 2 damage.
Pilot of Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Lordred) "Bryan Otsuka" needs a 3 to stay conscious. Rolls 6 : successful!
Pilot of Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime (Lordred) "Bryan Otsuka" needs a 5 to stay conscious. Rolls 7 : successful!
Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime needs a 6+ for coolant failure, rolls 8 : fails.
Daishi (Dire Wolf) Prime's coolant is now less effective.
----
Yes, it detonated ammo. (In MWO you'd shut down for half a second and power right back up if you fired them all at once). But more than that, yes he was able to avoid shutting down by spacing it across 10 seconds and even then it had devastating effects. He melted a heatsink (is what the last line is effectively stating). Barely avoided shutdown by virtue of his piloting skill by how he spaced the gunfire. (When shutdown is completely unavoidable by the dice, you will find it is completely impossible to space out the weapons fire heat and movement heat generated in such a way as to avoid hitting 30 heat against a steady cooldown at your heatsink's rate. However whenever it is possible to avoid shutdown via the dice, it is mathmatically possible - no matter how difficult -- to never hit 30 heat at any given second, as 30 heat means shutdown. Yep twin Heavy PPCs in MWO should shut you down instantly... And the laser vomit we do... would never work. The Clan superiority in laser vomit... could never happen...etc.
And if he did shutdown, he'd have to wait until he was less than 50% (46.67%) heat before he could power up again, regardless of ten second turn slices. For him that would be less than 5 seconds to hit zero heat had he shut down. But for some of the builds we have in MWO it could be as long as several minutes instead of the half second we get. Yes, MW games punish by explosion. In Battletech, the pilot would have cooked to death. So some leeway to interpretation there.
Its still suicidal. Most old meta rigs in MWO could never really happen in a true to lore Battletech/Mechwarrior game. And that's just by the heat system alone, neverminding weapon differences.
Though NARC + SRMs with NARC-enabled SRM ammo would totally be a bigger than Streaks....
And the Kintaro would be insanely popular due to that, rather than just "What, why?" as the reaction most MWO players had with a NARC-equipped Kintaro loaded with SRMs...
Random "meta is stupid / shouldn't be possible and this is why" rant. Carry on.
2
Tereva, on 04 November 2017 - 10:34 PM, said:
