221 replies to this topic

[Jackal Noble]

Nope. Not even touching this one. Echo echo echo echo....
Scouting? How dat work?

Tarogato, on 05 November 2017 - 07:39 AM, said:

If you're interested, I've love to give you some 1v1s to demonstrate that any of these mechs (of the ones I own) are still capable of delivering a proper aѕs-whoopin'.

And I'll being my stable of IS mechs and do just fine.

Edited by JackalBeast, 05 November 2017 - 11:03 AM.

[Kin3ticX]

Yeonne Greene, on 05 November 2017 - 10:50 AM, said:

Probably this.

Alternatively, and you might give me a funny look for the ERSL, but this.

You can play around with standard MLs instead if you want, but really some variation between those two.

Thats basically what I came up with.

Which reminds me, what exactly was the logic behind the LPL nerf to 10 damage? I dunno, maybe PGI figured the 10 ton HPPC was even steven with the 4 ton HLL? (it's not)

but...but....Kin3ticX.....HPPC is PPPFFLLDD and HLL isn....hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Which reminds me. Isnt it about time we ditched that vestigial 90m min range junk? Inner Sphere already has a bad go of things as it is.

All those IS mechs dominating MWOWC (they arn't)

Edited by Kin3ticX, 05 November 2017 - 11:14 AM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Asym, on 05 November 2017 - 09:47 AM, said:

Actually, I do; but that's neither here nor there.....

Opinion is opinion.... I don't find fault with yours and this isn't a graduate paper either: I grade them all of the time......
As a customer, who's been around since there was a first MW title and game, I don't see balance as a necessity for success. Fun, is a necessity for success; no matter the gameplay dynamics...

You demonstrably don't, but that's besides the point.

As a customer who's played MW since MW2, played most major FPS games (which is what MWO is) from original CS up to CoD:BO2 / BF4, I can say that balance in a PvP FPS game is paramount to that game's continued success.

Fun for 50% of the player base at the expense of the other 50% is obviously not good, I don't know why you can't see that.

[Jackal Noble]

Oh my god guys just quit the game, if it's really that unfair. Like really... This is such a bizarre group.

Better yet, play those ultra hardcore mechs in scouting. Good luck on that.

[Gas Guzzler]

JackalBeast, on 05 November 2017 - 10:57 AM, said:

Nope. Not even touching this one. Echo echo echo echo....
Scouting? How dat work?





And I'll being my stable of IS mechs and do just fine.

You realize scouting is an incredibly small portion of this game, right?

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 05 November 2017 - 11:21 AM.

[Scout Derek]

You wanna know why they aren't balanced?

because they WEREN'T MEANT TO BE BALANCED.

[Jackal Noble]

Must be that OP C-ERML with a 6+ second total turnaround. Or those C-peeps that absolutely require a [Redacted] ton of dhs to fire more than three times without cooking thyself.

Edited by draiocht, 05 November 2017 - 11:26 AM.
inappropriate language

[Y E O N N E]

Kin3ticX, on 05 November 2017 - 11:11 AM, said:

Thats basically what I came up with.

Which reminds me, what exactly was the logic behind the LPL nerf to 10 damage? I dunno, maybe PGI figured the 10 ton HPPC was even steven with the 4 ton HLL? (it's not)

Complaints from both sides about the other's respective LPLs being too good and poorly interpreted data showing the LPLs were used more than the ERs and Standards. Personally, I would've rather they stretched the duration on the IS LPL out to 0.9 seconds or something than remove that point of damage, because the IS need every single point of damage they can get more than they need 0.23 seconds shaved off of a Medium laser burn time. And 2x cLPL was easier to balance against 3x LL back when it still did 26 damage because you could justify nerfing the range on the cLPL. Now you can't, and now its only real use is as part of a mid-range laser vomit bundle.

I'm just happy they acquiesced and let the HPPC deal the full 15 PPFLD. That was a fight. Not thrilled about the heat or the nerf to cool-down, but as far as MWO balancing goes it turned out on the better side of things. Special secret: the NSR-9S can generate enough thrust to poptart with an AC/10 and two HPPC and it won't cook you. Hooray, spending 20 extra tons to do what a Night Gyr can do.

Quote

Which reminds me. Isnt it about time we ditched that vestigial 90m min range junk? Inner Sphere already has a bad go of things as it is.

All those IS mechs dominating MWOWC (they arn't)

I dunno, the Snubs sort of exist specifically to not have that min-range. I don't mind the min-range as much as I mind the softball velocity, tinge too much heat, and tinge too little range. The way PPCs behave on a BJ-3 feels about where they should be in general.

I don't feel strongly on the subject. If they remove min-range, I won't care.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 05 November 2017 - 11:24 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Kin3ticX, on 05 November 2017 - 11:11 AM, said:

Which reminds me, what exactly was the logic behind the LPL nerf to 10 damage? I dunno, maybe PGI figured the 10 ton HPPC was even steven with the 4 ton HLL? (it's not)

Probably usage statistics, and people complaining about the short duration being equivalent to PPFLD.

[Jackal Noble]

Gas Guzzler, on 05 November 2017 - 11:21 AM, said:

You realize scouting is an incredibly small portion of this game, right?

No Gas, please enlighten me. It's 1/3 (1/4 if you count comp[Redacted])

Who here thinks they could take on a Madcat mkII with a Cyclops and come out on top? Anybody?

Edited by draiocht, 05 November 2017 - 11:34 AM.
inappropriate language

[Jay Leon Hart]

JackalBeast, on 05 November 2017 - 11:22 AM, said:

Must be that OP C-ERML with a 6+ second total turnaround.

Can I trade you for the IS-ERMLs? My Lights & Mediums could use the damage boost.

[Gas Guzzler]

JackalBeast, on 05 November 2017 - 11:22 AM, said:

Must be that OP C-ERML with a 6+ second total turnaround. Or those C-peeps that absolutely require a [Redacted] ton of dhs to fire more than three times without cooking thyself.

cERMLs still work fine because they are used as alpha weapons not DPS weapons.

cERPPCs are still a top level long range weapon, despite the "[Redacted] ton" of DHS required. Must be nice to have those 2 slot DHS. Imagine trying to bring that many DHS on an IS mech.

JackalBeast, on 05 November 2017 - 11:25 AM, said:

No Gas, please enlighten me. It's 1/3 (1/4 if you count comp[Redacted])

Who here thinks they could take on a Madcat mkII with a Cyclops and come out on top? Anybody?

Um, its significantly less than 1/3 because most of the population plays quick play.

What are the match stipulations? Do they start 200m away? I mean a generic 1v1 of two mechs in entirely different roles isn't really telling.

Edited by draiocht, 05 November 2017 - 11:35 AM.
Quote Clean-up, reference

[Y E O N N E]

JackalBeast, on 05 November 2017 - 11:22 AM, said:

Must be that OP C-ERML with a 6+ second total turnaround. Or those C-peeps that absolutely require a [Redacted] ton of dhs to fire more than three times without cooking thyself.

IS ERPPC and HPPC require that same crap-tonne of DHS to fire more than three times without cooking thine own self, with the added joke of being unable to fit said crap-tonne.

Ha, it's my edit now, sucka!

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 05 November 2017 - 11:39 AM.
Quote Clean-up, reference

[Jackal Noble]

didnt think that was a bad word lol. its like a cute and british way to say pooo

Gas Guzzler, on 05 November 2017 - 11:27 AM, said:

cERMLs still work fine because they are used as alpha weapons not DPS weapons.

cERPPCs are still a top level long range weapon, despite the "[Redacted] ton" of DHS required. Must be nice to have those 2 slot DHS. Imagine trying to bring that many DHS on an IS mech.



Um, its significantly less than 1/3 because most of the population plays quick play.

What are the match stipulations? Do they start 200m away? I mean a generic 1v1 of two mechs in entirely different roles isn't really telling.

Run em through multiple scenarios, that's how you test isn't it?

And yes 1v1 in different scenarios would be how one could illustrate tech disparities. But that's not what we are here for, we are just here to complain and like others comments that go in line with our own, right?

[Warrax the Chaos Warrior]

Here's the closest apples-to-apples comparison I could find (Same-ish hardpoints, same-ish hitboxes.):

ON1-K

ON1-IIC-B

IS has better armor quirks (had to strip just a little for a heatsink), clan has higher alpha, but look at the speed and cooling difference.

Just food for thought I guess.

[Gas Guzzler]

JackalBeast, on 05 November 2017 - 11:36 AM, said:

Run em through multiple scenarios, that's how you test isn't it?

I mean its pretty easy right? If the Cyclops closes and gets the drop on a Mad Cat Mk. II (in gauss vomit format, because that's its best build while the Cyclops is best as a brawler), the Cyclops will win. In all other scenarios, including contact from far away, or having to actually carry a match, the Mad Cat Mk. II will dominate.

I don't really like the mech as a brawler but somebody else might have experience with the LB40 SRM24 MCII build and have an opinion on how it stacks up to the SRM40 Cyclops or SRM22 + AC20 Cyclops.

[Jackal Noble]

Been trying a LB40/ 2LPL. Runs super hot, and is on a surprisingly fragile chassis but am still testing that.

[Scout Derek]

Gas Guzzler, on 05 November 2017 - 11:40 AM, said:

I mean its pretty easy right? If the Cyclops closes and gets the drop on a Mad Cat Mk. II (in gauss vomit format, because that's its best build while the Cyclops is best as a brawler), the Cyclops will win. In all other scenarios, including contact from far away, or having to actually carry a match, the Mad Cat Mk. II will dominate.

I don't really like the mech as a brawler but somebody else might have experience with the LB40 SRM24 MCII build and have an opinion on how it stacks up to the SRM40 Cyclops or SRM22 + AC20 Cyclops.

I am one who has. I both have the Cyclops and the MCII.

The cyclops always wins in brawling, simply put, It's weapons deal more damage and faster. It's also more sturdier, and it's got more synced weapon outputs (AKA stacked together so when fired the missiles go Vertically instead or Horizontal).

but in a ranged fight, the MCII will win. It can output more damaging weapons and move faster than the cyclops because that's what it is, more lighter equipment, more agile.

JackalBeast, on 05 November 2017 - 11:42 AM, said:

Been trying a LB40/ 2LPL. Runs super hot, and is on a surprisingly fragile chassis but am still testing that.

That's a bad build. Try LBs + SRMs. LPLs generate too much heat and not enough damage. If you're going to go full brawl, you have to bring ballistics and Missiles. No lasers, unless they're your backups.

and brawlers generally run hot. You're goal is to deal quick DPS within a limited time and then rinse and repeat if you can.

[Gas Guzzler]

JackalBeast, on 05 November 2017 - 11:42 AM, said:

Been trying a LB40/ 2LPL. Runs super hot, and is on a surprisingly fragile chassis but am still testing that.

That's a terrible build.

Scout Derek, on 05 November 2017 - 11:46 AM, said:

I am one who has. I both have the Cyclops and the MCII.

The cyclops always wins in brawling, simply put, It's weapons deal more damage and faster. It's also more sturdier, and it's got more synced weapon outputs (AKA stacked together so when fired the missiles go Vertically instead or Horizontal).

but in a ranged fight, the MCII will win. It can output more damaging weapons and move faster than the cyclops because that's what it is, more lighter equipment, more agile.

I mean, the Mad Cat Mk. II has the bigger splat alpha, the Cyclops has to fire SRM packs at different times, or has a smaller alpha if using the AC20 version.

I would say the Cyclops' biggest advantage is in the agility department.

[Scout Derek]

Gas Guzzler, on 05 November 2017 - 11:48 AM, said:

I mean, the Mad Cat Mk. II has the bigger splat alpha, the Cyclops has to fire SRM packs at different times, or has a smaller alpha if using the AC20 version.

I would say the Cyclops' biggest advantage is in the agility department.

You can actually Fire all SRMs at once if you're using the correct amount of SRMs. I managed to created a build that allowed you to alpha twice with all missiles, Without sacrificing major damage or adding major heat.

the MCII indeed has bigger splat, but it's main issue is synergy. Since the Missile Racks are so far apart, in extreme close combat and even in close combat (talking about 50-200m engagements), it has trouble hitting it's targets where you want it to hit.

The Cyclops can be more agile than the MCII this is true, but if it wants to it has to sacrifice it's survivability. Bigger brawlers I've used have STDs, rarely do I use LFEs unless it's absolutely helpful. XLs are deathtraps, unless you really know what you're doing.