140 replies to this topic

[InfinityBall]

[Redacted]

Edited by draiocht, 06 November 2017 - 07:47 AM.
Insults / Ad Hominem

[InvictusLee]

Escef, on 05 November 2017 - 04:24 PM, said:

It just amazes me, the bizarre contrasts involved with LRMs. They are one of the most maligned weapons in the game; bad players whining about how OP they are, good players whining about being stuck with teammates that use such an UP weapon. They rely on the target far more than the attacker to determine their accuracy, which means you should expect that they don't work against good players, yet they often do. I'm tier 2, and when the solo queue gets exceptionally stupid on me I pull out a BLR-1S LRMboat, and it just wrecks faces. yet according to all the Tier 1 "experts" I'm a detriment to my team (despite getting multiple solo kills, double digit component destructions, and often scoring as much damage as the rest of the assaults combined; and ending the match with barely enough armor to weld into a coffee cup, cherry red internals, empty ammo bins, and my support lasers practically running white hot).

Precisely! I've been using lrms to level my scorch for the Lulz and ohh man is it effective, especially since I can get in close with my clan LRMs, HLL and 2 LMGS. Its not the most effective brawler but my KD is like... (checks) 2.50. My MCII-4 by comparison has fought in 243 matches and has a k/d of 2.40. The face wreckage is real!
I've never played a battlemaster Lrmboat but it sounds awesome.

[davoodoo]

Escef, on 05 November 2017 - 04:24 PM, said:

They rely on the target far more than the attacker to determine their accuracy

I would say it aint true, with experience you can actually determine whether its worth firing at target or youll simply lose lock or theyll manage to hide.
Also sure, you can say that enemy will just stick to cover all the time, but in same vein you have ppl who wont stay in the open long enough to be hit with gauss at 1km.

[arcana75]

I like streaks. Leave them alone.

[Lily from animove]

wow yeah superhard keeping that crosshair o those tiny 3 pixel mechs.

Gas Guzzler, on 05 November 2017 - 10:03 AM, said:

They require significantly less skill than non-lock on weapons. I don't care if you have to hold reticle in the vicinity of the target for 2 seconds. That's not hard.

maybe if you have some very serious parkinson

[Savage Wolf]

Gas Guzzler, on 05 November 2017 - 10:03 AM, said:

They require significantly less skill than non-lock on weapons. I don't care if you have to hold reticle in the vicinity of the target for 2 seconds. That's not hard.

Still harder than point and click lasers. I always find it funny how lock on weapons are criticized for being non-skill when we literally have point and click weapons what hit instantly. But no one ever calls them no-skill, despite the laser vomit meta.

So no, they are not hard. And lasers even less so. Projectile weapon a little harder, but not much. Why are we even comparing all these pretty easy to use weapons?

Every time people talk about skill it really sounds like all they are talking about is aiming. Aiming is about the easiest skill to learn, so why is it considered so important? Is it the only skill people possess?

I'd rather have a teammate with good positioning and tactics than one with perfect aim.

Edited by Savage Wolf, 06 November 2017 - 01:52 AM.

[Vellron2005]

Dee Eight, on 05 November 2017 - 09:48 AM, said:

when beaten/out damage outputted by them. Ignoring the fact you cannot fire them without a weapon lock... and that THAT requires holding your crosshairs on the target for about 2 seconds... and you have to keep holding the crosshairs on target to keep firing them.... there's the mental math that goes into using them. Are you in range ? Will the missiles have the range to chase down the target ? Will they have the speed to do that before they run out of range ? Will anything get in the way during their flight (like a friendly) ? What if the enemy turns...are they going to track into a building ? How's PGI's hit registration lately ? Will it result in better if chain or group fired as a result ?

Yeah... no skill required at all. And I don't boat streaks on anything.

To be honest, I didn't know that was a thing, cose' I never use streaks..

I guess some people will complain about just any weapon that has lock-on..

First it's LRMs, now Streaks.. are ATMs the next no-skill noob tube?

I mean seriously people.. This game is not just Gauss, Laservomit and PPCs..

But hey.. toxic people will spread toxicity whatever you do.. so just ignore them and don't play with them if possible..

[Curccu]

Deathlike, on 05 November 2017 - 10:20 AM, said:

Gas, Skill is Lostech™. I mean, we have an auto-aim request thread. That's how you know this is true.

In that thread I have been told by The Basilisk that mouse based aiming isn't really a skill .

[gRozist]

I don't care to much about Streaks, they aren't very OP compared to ATMs... I don't normally play Clan mechs but I just got a Super nova and fitted 48 ATMs. How hard do you think it is for me to do 900-1200 damage per match? HA! I do it in every match and it takes me 0.00001 skill to do so. I don't even play properly that's how ridiculous it is. I laugh every time. I guess I'll just hop in to it and rek some more faces now, because that's hard!

*Note: I don't normally post on forums, like ever. I had to speak my mind in this matter, it's even more ridiculous than you can imagine

Edited by gRozist, 06 November 2017 - 03:15 AM.

[Xetelian]

For the love of all that is decent in this world please stop saying Streaks take skill.


The only skill that streaks take is facing the right direction with torso lock on.

Surviving long enough to take down a 100 ton assault with 4 SSRM6s is something you might be able to do against a potato but there is no way you will ever, I mean EVER, take down a DWF with Streaks when they're rocking a 70 point alpha and you don't have 100 tons worth of armor yourself. Just take an Atlas, put 4 SSRM6s on it and fight a DWF with your worst friend piloting it and give him Twin Gauss and 2 LPL + 3ERML like the champion has. Tell me you can twist enough to focus down EVERY component on that DWF before it gets through your CT.



Streaks are for light hunting, anything else is a gamble where you take the chance that the person is so bad they can't help but spread all their damage all over you as much as you are doing to them.

[Savage Wolf]

Xetelian, on 06 November 2017 - 03:42 AM, said:

The only skill that streaks take is facing the right direction with torso lock on.

You just described all weapons in the game. None of them require any notable amount of skill to use.

[Xetelian]

Savage Wolf, on 06 November 2017 - 03:49 AM, said:

You just described all weapons in the game. None of them require any notable amount of skill to use.

Take a minute and try to hit a mech moving 145 KPH with an AC5, tell me that doesn't take skill.

[Kroete]

About skill:

Let us try to train two apes:

One has to catch a moving red dot with a green circle on the monitor with his joystick then he hast to push a button to release the banana.

The second also has to catch a moving red dot with a little bigger green circle, but then he has to hold the circle over the moving dot for around 2seconds until it turns green, then he has to push the button and follow the moving dot with the circle anoteher 2 seconds to get his babana.


Which ape will get the first banana?

Edited by Kroete, 06 November 2017 - 04:01 AM.

[Savage Wolf]

Xetelian, on 06 November 2017 - 03:51 AM, said:

Take a minute and try to hit a mech moving 145 KPH with an AC5, tell me that doesn't take skill.

Ah, picking the hardest weapon category against the worst target for said weapon. Like considering the usage of streaks against an assault. Well, I'd argue hitting lights with AC20 would be worse because of the longer cooldown. AC5 is doable. Depending on your mech's torso twist and such, but that again counts for all weapons, streaks included.

How about lasers? They are easy to use against all targets and require less time looking at the target than streaks. All you have to do is point and click. By far the easiest weapon to use in the game and has no counter except cover.

So, no. Not much skill. Not a whole lot more than most other weapons. But it is the category that require the most.

[Xetelian]

Kroete, on 06 November 2017 - 03:56 AM, said:

About skill:

Let us try to train to apes:

One has to catch a moving red dot with a green circle on the monitor with his joystick then he hast to push a button to release the banana.

The second also to catch a moving red dot with a little bigger green circle, but then he hast to hold the circle over the moving dot for around 2seconds, then he has to push the button and follow moving the dot with the circle anoteher 2 seconds to get his babana.


Which ape will get his first banana?

The second ape will likely get the banana first if he KNOWS that he needs to hold for 2 seconds.


We're not talking a small increase in circle size, we're talking about a square/circle the 3x the size of the target unless the target is a Annihilator.


Set one ape against an ANI with a streak and then set up another ape with an AC5 and have him hit a locust. Hell have them both hit the locust, which one do you honestly think is going to have more trouble? The weapon that doesn't track to the target or the weapon that does?



This is like saying LRMs take skill.



If you honestly think that streaks take more skill than autocannons then you must be an absolute GOD with autocannons and a complete fool with streaks.

[Kroete]

Xetelian, on 06 November 2017 - 04:02 AM, said:

We're not talking a small increase in circle size, we're talking about a square/circle the 3x the size of the target unless the target is a Annihilator.

Seems you have not used streaks after the last patch where there targeting arc was reduced by around 45%?

[Jay Leon Hart]

Kroete, on 06 November 2017 - 03:56 AM, said:

About skill:

Let us try to train two apes:

One has to catch a moving red dot with a green circle that is 1/20th the size of the dot on the monitor with his joystick then he hast to push a button and hold it for 1 second to release the banana.

The second also has to catch a moving red dot with a green circle the same size as the dot, but then he has to hold the circle over the moving dot for around 2seconds until it turns green, then he has to push the button and follow the moving dot with the circle anoteher 2 seconds to get his babana.


Which ape will get the first banana?

Fixed the size and durations

[Jay Leon Hart]

Savage Wolf, on 06 November 2017 - 04:02 AM, said:

How about lasers? They are easy to use against all targets and require less time looking at the target than streaks. All you have to do is point and click. By far the easiest weapon to use in the game and has no counter except cover.

The larger the target, the better lasers become, because the target moves slower.

The lighter the target, the better Streaks become, because they can't take as much punishment.

Lasers get better, the higher up in tonnage you go, whereas Streaks get worse.

The inverse of the above 3 statements also holds true.

For clairty - hitting a 'mech with lasers is easy. Keeping the beam on them varies, depending on what you're shooting, from how far away, how long the duration is and how quickly your 'mech can re-adjust aim.

[Savage Wolf]

Jay Leon Hart, on 06 November 2017 - 04:31 AM, said:

The larger the target, the better lasers become, because the target moves slower.

The lighter the target, the better Streaks become, because they can't take as much punishment.

Lasers get better, the higher up in tonnage you go, whereas Streaks get worse.

The inverse of the above 3 statements also holds true.

For clairty - hitting a 'mech with lasers is easy. Keeping the beam on them varies, depending on what you're shooting, from how far away, how long the duration is and how quickly your 'mech can re-adjust aim.

You are right about streaks. But you are talking about effectiveness, not the skill to use them. Using streaks against assaults is still easier than against lights for the same reasons you mentioned. In fact all weapons are easier to use on assaults, no exceptions. Streaks just does **** all against assaults in terms of effective damage.

So let me put it like this...

The bigger the mech the easier it is to hit. With all weapons. No exceptions.

The smaller the mech the harder it is to hit. With all weapons. No exceptions.

How effective each weapon is against a certain weight classes is another deal. Streaks are only effective against lights. MRMs effective against assaults. And lasers are effective against everything.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Savage Wolf, on 06 November 2017 - 04:39 AM, said:

So let me put it like this...

The bigger the mech the easier it is to hit. With all weapons. No exceptions.

The smaller the mech the harder it is to hit. With all weapons. No exceptions.

Right, but lasers require between 0.5s and 1.55 of time on target. Not just over or around the target, like Streaks, but on the same location.

You can't honestly tell me you can hold a laser at 400m on a single location (arm, torso, leg) easier than you can hold a target lock at 200m, can you?

As I said, hitting with lasers is easy, getting all (or even most) of their damage on target is less easy.