78 replies to this topic

[Trissila]

Provide one good, tactically-sound scenario in which disabling target sharing is a benefit to anything other than personal stat-padding.

[Rick T Dangerous]

tker 669, on 07 November 2017 - 12:31 PM, said:

We need the ability to toggle this feature on or off.

No, we don't.

[kyfire]

Hmmmmm....... I don't think the OPs reson is for stats as someone suggested. I went back through the stats to season 12 and the OP has NO stats!
Now, not that I'm suggesting anything but has anyone really looked at and considered the OP's name?

[ANOM O MECH]

SuperMCDad, on 07 November 2017 - 01:10 PM, said:

Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm fairly new here). If you turn off ECM, you don't get the benefit. If you turn off AMS, you don't get the benefit. If you don't press 'R', you don't get the benefit. I'm not following the logic. Also, the benefits don't help the rest of your team as well. In a team based game, where you are working together to defeat the enemy.

I'm confused by this request.

That is actually an excellent point. Currenly ECM you toggle a choice of two modes which both provide benefit... (I was actually prepared for this argument as much as I was for the lets talk lurm hate).

Also using the ECM example, you have choice in the skill maze tree. You can make your ecm's bubble more effective if you invest into the sensor tree far and take crap you don't need, or you can leave it stock and basically only cover your own butt.

AMS similarly has benefit to being turned off. Not giving positions away, conserving ammo/heat.... Again, choice.

So to be clear, my argument is that the user should be able to choose. Having that choice doesn't mean that the game would fall apart. Also those anti-social types that would turn it off just to be a tool, already have the choice to be a tool in so many other ways (including not hitting R) that it doesn't matter nor should be part of the consideration. Like most things we already have choice over in the game, the majority of players will use the feature responsibly anyways.

[Jay Leon Hart]

tker 669, on 07 November 2017 - 01:18 PM, said:

As far as maybe your only arguement here that isn't an opinion or off topic is the issue of benefit. Someone else mentioned stats...could be a reason for some. Overall there are many situations that it would be good for stealth/sniping. A simple one is to avoid having a teammate inadvertently drive a player back into cover or move when you have a back shot open. Again there would be benefits to have it on or have it off.

So the benefits could be;

1. Personal performance stats (it's a team game, so this doesn't matter).
2. Preventing bad team mates from ruining an ambush (OK, maybe).

At least we're getting somewhere now.

[Nema Nabojiv]

Trissila, on 07 November 2017 - 01:23 PM, said:

Provide one good, tactically-sound scenario in which disabling target sharing is a benefit to anything other than personal stat-padding.

Ou, that's easy - you see a lot of reds but you dont want your team, which consists of massive *******, to run away in an attempt to "flank".

wait what, pussіe is a bad word? mmkay.

Edited by Nema Nabojiv, 07 November 2017 - 01:36 PM.

[ANOM O MECH]

Jay Leon Hart, on 07 November 2017 - 01:33 PM, said:

So the benefits could be;

1. Personal performance stats (it's a team game, so this doesn't matter).
2. Preventing bad team mates from ruining an ambush (OK, maybe).

At least we're getting somewhere now.

Where I hope to not go is too far down the road into how bad or anti-social players would misuse this suggested toggle.

Had a sense that this thread could go bad if I wasn't a bit on guard to make my point, without starting a fire so to speak.

I will acquiesce a bit to your insistence for examples, I would personally toggle it off under certain conditions when a light runs into the enemy and starts spamming R. I don't want the scout to not be able to get their scouting bonus as well as relay positions, but at times when trying to focus on a target in the distance, or looking at the map for other reasons, it can be distracting. I may also toggle it off to prevent friendlies from chasing a squirrel I might have seen in the distance.

Further, to address concerns for it's misuse, it could be a very temporary kill switch of around five seconds to allow the pilot to use it when needed. Think that the vast majority of legit reasons to use such a feature wouldn't be hampered by it being only temporary.

[N0ni]

If you want to prevent people from chasing the squirrel, just tell them to not do it via text or VoIP. More often than not they'll listen.

We don't need an entirely new system to accomplish the same goal.

[PurplePuke]

Lame. Hidden agenda detected.

[Athom83]

tker 669, on 07 November 2017 - 12:41 PM, said:

Use them less than lasers but more than rac's or IS UAC.

Why don't you like them? They are amazing.

[ANOM O MECH]

Athom83, on 07 November 2017 - 02:28 PM, said:

Why don't you like them? They are amazing.

I do take them. They are not amazing but certainly have good uses. Not quite sure how I like ATM's though.

[Kalimaster]

It's his choice not to share information. That would be helpful right. Afterall, not helping his team mates is his choice. I have no trouble hitting the R key and earning extra C-Bills for helping someone out. Let the LRM's soften someone up for a quad blast of medium laser fury.

[Shifty McSwift]

Trissila, on 07 November 2017 - 01:23 PM, said:

Provide one good, tactically-sound scenario in which disabling target sharing is a benefit to anything other than personal stat-padding.

LoL not that it will help this obviously LRM hate based topic much, but one actual viable reason I have heard, though am not sure how true it is, is that an enemy can be made aware of themself being targeted, so for a scouter who is just providing visual info his scouting presence can be potentially revealed on accident there, and if "sneaking up" on targets causes that auto lock, then it ruins that sense of stealth.

It is not something I have particularly noticed myself but I have heard others say it, and seen plenty of mechs seem to turn around when I point at their back etc.

Edited by Shifty McSwift, 07 November 2017 - 04:04 PM.

[ESC 907]

Hmm... Perhaps make this SUPER interesting, and make it so that a mech can go "off the grid"? Have them completely cut out from VOIP, in-game chat during this mode, and also the icons on the map systems & from the Mech's computer. Then, if a selfish ******* engages this status, they can appear to be a hostile, stealth-mode mech and get FF'd or TK'd without penalty!

Shifty McSwift, on 07 November 2017 - 04:04 PM, said:

It is not something I have particularly noticed myself but I have heard others say it, and seen plenty of mechs seem to turn around when I point at their back etc.

The Mech actually notifies you when you're locked onto. So that's why a mech would start looking around when you're all stealthy and then lock-on. As for turning around when you're about to Kancho him? That would be a friendly pointing you out.

[Shifty McSwift]

ESC 907, on 07 November 2017 - 04:08 PM, said:

The Mech actually notifies you when you're locked onto. So that's why a mech would start looking around when you're all stealthy and then lock-on. As for turning around when you're about to Kancho him? That would be a friendly pointing you out.

Mmm, well I say from experience because it has happened in many different scenarios, in situations where friendly spotting is entirely possible and others, where not so much. And the act of pointing your cursor at a mech within your targeting range, targets them, so that is more likely the reason, that "accidental" targeting that you can't particularly control giving away your presence (not location, but the knowledge someone is being aimed at is pretty massive).

The guys were asking for any reason that didn't involve being a selfish jerk, so there it is.

[Xiphias]

ESC 907, on 07 November 2017 - 04:08 PM, said:

Hmm... Perhaps make this SUPER interesting, and make it so that a mech can go "off the grid"? Have them completely cut out from VOIP, in-game chat during this mode, and also the icons on the map systems & from the Mech's computer. Then, if a selfish ******* engages this status, they can appear to be a hostile, stealth-mode mech and get FF'd or TK'd without penalty!

The Mech actually notifies you when you're locked onto. So that's why a mech would start looking around when you're all stealthy and then lock-on. As for turning around when you're about to Kancho him? That would be a friendly pointing you out.

Trissila, on 07 November 2017 - 01:23 PM, said:

Provide one good, tactically-sound scenario in which disabling target sharing is a benefit to anything other than personal stat-padding.

James Argent, on 07 November 2017 - 01:09 PM, said:

Then set us straight with your reason for your request. What do you hope to accomplish by keeping target information to yourself that cannot be accomplished by sharing target information?

'This makes me look bad' is not a legitimate reason to avoid explaining yourself. Because unless the real reason is actually worse, you're looking pretty bad already.

Jay Leon Hart, on 07 November 2017 - 12:33 PM, said:

Why would you not want to share target info?

Let me re-phrase...

What good reason is there not to share target info?

I play light mechs. I like to sneak up behind targets to backstab and potentially one-shot them. I target the mech to get info. My team receives that info and decides to take potshots at this mech (usually this is a LRM boat on my team shooting at the first lock it can find). Fire from the team alerts my target who decides to move as a result. This ruins my one-shot kill (for scratch damage by my team) and potentially reveals me opening me up to being killed.

Another minor case is when I am behind/circling a mech and I start taking damage from "friendly" LRMs. I don't need "support" and the damage certainly doesn't help me. More rare, but it does happen.

ESC 907, on 07 November 2017 - 04:08 PM, said:

The Mech actually notifies you when you're locked onto. So that's why a mech would start looking around when you're all stealthy and then lock-on. As for turning around when you're about to Kancho him? That would be a friendly pointing you out.

I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure the alert is not for lock on but actually for when lock is lost (this was a feature of Radar Dep). Getting the lock doesn't alert the player, but losing it does.

Also, even if lock does cause the noise a lot of players don't know this or miss the rather subtle sound. The blaring "Warning Incoming Missiles!" gives away my sneak attack everytime.

[Lyoto Machida]

Kalimaster, on 07 November 2017 - 03:58 PM, said:

It's his choice not to share information. That would be helpful right. Afterall, not helping his team mates is his choice. I have no trouble hitting the R key and earning extra C-Bills for helping someone out. Let the LRM's soften someone up for a quad blast of medium laser fury.

This thread and his replies are an analogy for his point in the OP (not wanting to share info).

[Trissila]

Shifty McSwift, on 07 November 2017 - 04:04 PM, said:

LoL not that it will help this obviously LRM hate based topic much, but one actual viable reason I have heard, though am not sure how true it is, is that an enemy can be made aware of themself being targeted, so for a scouter who is just providing visual info his scouting presence can be potentially revealed on accident there, and if "sneaking up" on targets causes that auto lock, then it ruins that sense of stealth.

It is not something I have particularly noticed myself but I have heard others say it, and seen plenty of mechs seem to turn around when I point at their back etc.

You receive an alert whenever someone targets you -- if you've ever noticed the little blue flash and electronic ping sound, that's your lock alert. It goes off when someone presses R on you to lock you as a target. So if you don't lock them, they don't get alerted. Which gets back to the whole "if you don't want to share target data, just don't press R" thing.

As for turning around when you 'point at them'? If you didn't hit R to lock them, then it was probably because you showed up on Seismic.

[Grus]

I don't see anything wrong with target "pressing the R button" sharing. Now do the info ie loadouts of my target I think should only be shared if I have a c3 computer onboard.

[ANOM O MECH]

Xiphias, on 07 November 2017 - 04:17 PM, said:

I play light mechs. I like to sneak up behind targets to backstab and potentially one-shot them. I target the mech to get info. My team receives that info and decides to take potshots at this mech (usually this is a LRM boat on my team shooting at the first lock it can find). Fire from the team alerts my target who decides to move as a result. This ruins my one-shot kill (for scratch damage by my team) and potentially reveals me opening me up to being killed.

Another minor case is when I am behind/circling a mech and I start taking damage from "friendly" LRMs. I don't need "support" and the damage certainly doesn't help me. More rare, but it does happen.

I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure the alert is not for lock on but actually for when lock is lost (this was a feature of Radar Dep). Getting the lock doesn't alert the player, but losing it does.

Also, even if lock does cause the noise a lot of players don't know this or miss the rather subtle sound. The blaring "Warning Incoming Missiles!" gives away my sneak attack everytime.

You have hit the nail on the head with why I would like to be able to switch. Even if only temporary to curb abuse. It is funny to see some folks immediately think this is an lrm hate issue.