47 replies to this topic

[Trissila]

It's not about being 'good'.

It's about not being catastrophically bad.

24 HP. On arms that are nearly the size of the STs on some mediums. You can almost one-shot them with an AC/20 by itself. Two SRM-6s would do the job.

If he's right up in your face, you dun goofed a while ago; he should have been hit on his way in. But even assuming you've goofed up that hard already, the rest of your team should have no problem hitting him if he's right in the middle of them all.

[Uncle Butch]

Trissila, on 11 November 2017 - 11:48 PM, said:

It's not about being 'good'.

It's about not being catastrophically bad.

24 HP. On arms that are nearly the size of the STs on some mediums. You can almost one-shot them with an AC/20 by itself. Two SRM-6s would do the job.

If he's right up in your face, you dun goofed a while ago; he should have been hit on his way in. But even assuming you've goofed up that hard already, the rest of your team should have no problem hitting him if he's right in the middle of them all.

24 armor =/= 24 HP.
Learn To MW, pleb.

[Trissila]

Uncle Butch, on 12 November 2017 - 12:04 AM, said:

24 armor =/= 24 HP.
Learn To MW, pleb.

It's got 16 armor, not 24.

Memeing doesn't make you less wrong, it just makes you wrong and obnoxious.

Though I will say that apparently PGI gave the G arms +5 structure that isn't reflected in Smurfy, so it's 29 total HP rather than 24. Still piss-easy to blow off with only a fraction of the firepower that any halfway-decent 'mech is packing.

And let's not bring skills into it. If the MLX pilot drops 33 skill points on the Survival tree, they can pick up a total of 9 more HP, less than two IS medium lasers' worth.

Edited by Trissila, 12 November 2017 - 12:39 AM.

[ESC 907]

Trissila, on 12 November 2017 - 12:36 AM, said:

It's got 16 armor, not 24.

Memeing doesn't make you less wrong, it just makes you wrong and obnoxious.

Though I will say that apparently PGI gave the G arms +5 structure that isn't reflected in Smurfy, so it's 29 total HP rather than 24. Still piss-easy to blow off with only a fraction of the firepower that any halfway-decent 'mech is packing.

But then your assumption that the enemy has to be bad to suffer damage at the hand of the MLX-LMG-boat is catastrophically stupid. In the end, it's on the ability of the MLX pilot to be able to know when to engage and disengage, avoiding excessive damage, and also crit-hunting. Also, the MLX is extremely dexterous, helping with the ability to avoid damage.

[dario03]

Decent firepower at close range, slow for a light but decent overall speed, ammo dependent for a big part of the firepower, paper thin armor. Seems fine to me. Some armor quirks would be nice. Though most lights could use some more quirks, get some more variety going.

Edited by dario03, 12 November 2017 - 12:44 AM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

FupDup, on 11 November 2017 - 06:28 PM, said:

Being able to remove the head probe would help as well...

Yes! Then we can be sure the Men Shen has no locked BAP either.

[Trissila]

ESC 907, on 12 November 2017 - 12:43 AM, said:

But then your assumption that the enemy has to be bad to suffer damage at the hand of the MLX-LMG-boat is catastrophically stupid. In the end, it's on the ability of the MLX pilot to be able to know when to engage and disengage, avoiding excessive damage, and also crit-hunting. Also, the MLX is extremely dexterous, helping with the ability to avoid damage.

Don't move the goalposts. "Suffering damage" and "800+ damage" are two very different things. I never said a MLX will never do damage. I specifically stated that your team has to be incredibly bad to let one get away with 800+ damage.

There is no magical "knowing when to engage" that changes the amount of facetime you need to deal 800+ damage with machine guns. 8 machine guns is 8 DPS; throw on a couple lasers of your choice and you can get it up to about 10 DPS. That's 80 seconds of facetime. Machineguns are not poke-trade weapons.

If your team cannot land 58 damage on those big, chunky arms in nearly a minute and a half, then they're bad.

Edit: I actually just had a match that illustrates this point. Driving an ARC-2R with 2xALRM-20 and 5xISML. End of the match (team got stomped hard), had an enemy MLX rush me with his memeguns trying to scrape up a kill. Showed up on Seismic, so I was ready and waiting for him to come around that corner. First shot took off his left arm, second shot took off his right arm, GG. He had 4.4 seconds to do damage before I took all his weapons.

Edited by Trissila, 12 November 2017 - 01:51 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Uncle Butch, on 11 November 2017 - 10:12 PM, said:

PGI should just make MG's do half damage to armor and full damage to internals.

As an aside, you realize in MWO this outright cuts their current damage in half?

They deal normal damage to armor, and ~double damage to Structure


What kind of damage buff do you want to give them with his suggestion?
Because otherwise, MGs become utterly worthless

[Y E O N N E]

ESC 907, on 12 November 2017 - 12:43 AM, said:

But then your assumption that the enemy has to be bad to suffer damage at the hand of the MLX-LMG-boat is catastrophically stupid. In the end, it's on the ability of the MLX pilot to be able to know when to engage and disengage, avoiding excessive damage, and also crit-hunting. Also, the MLX is extremely dexterous, helping with the ability to avoid damage.

And knowing when to not engage means you are not contributing for about half of the fight...unless your opposition is hilariously bad (which, to be fair, is often the case in QP, but you don't balance against skill).

The MLX-G is fine. It's fairly easy to disarm when it does engage and, failing good aim, Streaks are available as a hard counter.

Oh, and the MLX does not respond well to getting nailed by twin Gauss or even twin PPC.

[Nightbird]

They're only here to prepare your posteriors for Piranas... then this mech will be inferior in every way

[HenryFA]

Learn to aim...
I have zero problem to shoot off their arm within 300m...
Their arm are so easy to be destroyed...

[BrunoSSace]

Not going to lie. When I see one I shoot its arms off. You don't need those machine guns, I'll take those.

[Khobai]

a hug is a strangle left unfinished

so if people are complaining about facehugging, strangle them

12MG PIRAHNAS FOREVER

[Uncle Butch]

"Your team has to be bad for a MLX-G to kill everyone on your team" is a poor excuse and intellectually dishonest. Can you say the same for any other 'mech? I've seen ENTIRE teams (on multiple occasions) get completely decimated by a good pilot in a MLX-G or a PB (subject for another day). Most of the matches I've been in when this happens, my team mates aren't even performing poorly.

So let's just say you're playing WoW and you found a way to make playing your class EZ mode, should your class be nerfed thusly? Yeah, it should, and in any other game your class would be nerfed. e.g. I used to play a crit monster Warrior build in GW2. With the build you could do over 30k damage with a single 100 Blades strike, in short: it was EZ mode. Of course you'd have to be a good player to make the build work, but it was still highly imbalanced. Eventually crit damage was nerfed for the warrior, and justifiably so. Sure I was a little butthurt, but it just made sense.

MLX-G needs a nerf, and you're all in denial.

[Trissila]

Uncle Butch, on 12 November 2017 - 07:38 PM, said:

ENTIRE teams (on multiple occasions) get completely decimated by a good pilot in a MLX-G

Quote

my team mates aren't even performing poorly.

Only one of these statements can be true. You've got to pick one, because they are mutually exclusive. Those arms come off in one shot.

[Uncle Butch]

Trissila, on 12 November 2017 - 07:54 PM, said:

Only one of these statements can be true. You've got to pick one, because they are mutually exclusive. Those arms come off in one shot.

"If one is true, then the other cannot be true", and the "Options in absolute" arguments are very poor points. Also, those arms don't come off in one hit. You'd be kidding yourself to assume this, because you'd be lucky to hit those arms with the full brunt of your strike in a heavy 'mech. Hell, my JM6-DD is fully skilled in mobility and is sporting 2 RAC5's + 4 MG's and it takes nothing short of a miracle to blow an arm off. However, my jager is pretty good at discouraging the little bast**ds from coming around my neck of the woods ever again...that is...if they're an average player.

[Trissila]

Quote

RAC5's + 4 MG's

Well there is your problem. Those weapons require focus time on target to deliver their damage, which is a poor choice of weapon against a fast-moving target. You'll do good damage against the 'mech as a whole, but the damage will spread severely on a target that small that moves that much.

See my earlier post edit about disarming an MLX in 4.4 seconds with an ARC-2R packing 5 ISMLs. The total time is due to the recycle time on the lasers, but each shot is only a 0.9 burn time for 25 damage -- just 4 points shy of one-shotting the arms if they were fresh. Over the course of a battle an MLX cannot help but take incidental damage to the arms, they're just that chunky, so in reality that 25 damage is easily going to be enough to take the arms off -- and for every point of damage he's taken prior to me seeing him, that's even less burn time required. Lasers are far easier to focus with than RACs, as they have no velocity, no spin-up time, and have much higher DPS during their uptime -- a pair of RAC-5s is just over 20 DPS, while 5 ISMLs is nearly 28 DPS.

So he came around the corner, and less than a second later was missing half of his weapons. 3.5 seconds after that, he lost the rest of them. The only option he could have had in that scenario would have been to run away after the first arm came off, but with the time it takes to reverse or turn around in this game, even that might not have been available to him in practical terms.

And 5 ISMLs is a far cry from an actually meta setup, or even the best weapons for the job.

RACs and MGs, though, are an exceedingly poor choice against a MLX. That's where the rest of your team should be filling in, if they were decent.

[Y E O N N E]

Uncle Butch, on 12 November 2017 - 07:38 PM, said:

"Your team has to be bad for a MLX-G to kill everyone on your team" is a poor excuse and intellectually dishonest. Can you say the same for any other 'mech?

You can, actually.

Quote

I've seen ENTIRE teams (on multiple occasions) get completely decimated by a good pilot in a MLX-G or a PB (subject for another day). Most of the matches I've been in when this happens, my team mates aren't even performing poorly.

You've seen entire teams have 1/10th of their players removed from the game by a good MLX pilot? Well, seeing how that's only 2 kills, yeah, that's not that impressive.

Sarcasm aside, I have seen similar great performances from nearly every 'Mech from the game in every class. I suppose they are all in need of nerfs, yeah?

Quote

So let's just say you're playing WoW and you found a way to make playing your class EZ mode, should your class be nerfed thusly? Yeah, it should, and in any other game your class would be nerfed. e.g. I used to play a crit monster Warrior build in GW2. With the build you could do over 30k damage with a single 100 Blades strike, in short: it was EZ mode. Of course you'd have to be a good player to make the build work, but it was still highly imbalanced. Eventually crit damage was nerfed for the warrior, and justifiably so. Sure I was a little butthurt, but it just made sense.

If there exist hard counters to that class, and people fail to exploit them, then is the class OP or is everybody else just playing stupidly? Or are you just not understanding that to specialize any 'Mech in any way means being strong in some conditions at the expense of others? Sounds balanced to me.

Did you ever stop to consider that the builds and tactics that have been conventionally considered strong have always had a weakness that was un-exploitable until the MLX-G and ACH-E came into the game? Why should you not have to adapt? The best teams in the game do, what makes you special?

Quote

MLX-G needs a nerf, and you're all in denial.

Or...you lack sufficient insight into the game mechanics to understand how they interact at a more holistic level and are also incapable of fathoming how others are not so limited.

[Uncle Butch]

Trissila, on 12 November 2017 - 08:13 PM, said:

Well there is your problem. Those weapons require focus time on target to deliver their damage, which is a poor choice of weapon against a fast-moving target.

Your entire argument is dismantled in this single quote.
All strikes need to be focused in order to do good damage, my friend.

[FupDup]

Uncle Butch, on 12 November 2017 - 09:07 PM, said:

Your entire argument is dismantled in this single quote.
All strikes need to be focused in order to do good damage, my friend.

Some require much more of it than others, and lock-on weapons require almost none.

You're best off using PPFLD weapons, SRMs, or lasers that have short to moderate durations.

Edited by FupDup, 12 November 2017 - 09:11 PM.