56 replies to this topic

[The6thMessenger]

gooddragon2, on 13 November 2017 - 07:35 AM, said:

Stuff like this is why I don't play competitive or anything but QP. First the clanners were complaining about srms. Now the IS is complaining about 2x uac20.

I'm not IS man.

I'm Clan Wolf in exile.

DAYLEET, on 13 November 2017 - 11:28 AM, said:

The uac20+hbkiic is still subpar, it works if you have good teammates with good mech. If you can isolate one they cant brawl for ****. They have a few seconds of scary firepower then its all dodge dodge twist twist and hope a teammate come save their ***.

Well, i was hanging back and using my team as meat-shield, it was easier that way. I know that's a dickish move, but i do notice that i am sometimes carrying the team.

DAYLEET, on 13 November 2017 - 11:28 AM, said:

It seems all the good players who leg moved over to the Clan. They are all legging me in record time, where in the past they never focused the legs. I dont think i died once without being legged yesterday and i almost never got legged in past scouting events.

Yeah, i've been legged here and there. It was a like a literal flash.

DAYLEET, on 13 November 2017 - 11:28 AM, said:

I don't know if IS is back to its old self or if its just the event that rewards selfish play. Stop dissassociating rewards objective from winning. People will ***** but they dont belong in fp. People who poke at optimal clan range or who are happy to cross 500m of open terrain under fire... only to stop behind a cover thats cq range and stay there suddendly being defensive. If you wont tier the matchmaking, why allowed these people to play fp?

Last event i played both side and commented on how bad the clan players generally were. Being comfortable doing just ok with minimal effort. Either those players all learned at the same time or something else is going on.

I don't know how to respond to this.

[MischiefSC]

Trissila, on 13 November 2017 - 05:55 AM, said:

Bushwackers are objectively better than Huntsmen/Hunchbacks at splat-dueling. They can carry the same payload with very similar layout as Pakhets (high and narrow on the STs), with the same speed, except that they have the armor of a 75-ton 'mech and their SRMs do more damage. They can also protect their legs better, as they have a lower profile and a nose-down BSW in your face is effectively shielding his legs with his torso.

They're beatable, but only if you significantly outplay them. Notably, the lack of jumpjets can screw them pretty hard if they're foolish enough to engage you in terrain where you can use them to poptart and protect your legs with hard cover. But in a straight-up facerush, which is what Scouting devolves into most of the time, they have a clear advantage.

Edit: "Same Payload" being 4xASRM-6. Clans can theoretically mount more launchers due to space/weight savings, but bringing any more than 4 and actually trying to use them makes you severely heat-limited. 4 is hot enough as it is on Caustic and Terra Therma.

Huntsman, 4xSRM6A, 2 MPL, 2 HSML.

A critical piece of Clan scouting strategy is the Bump N' Jump. So you laser his legs at range. This gives you a 14 damage lead before the first SRM is fired. You approach in a curve; never, ever directly in/out. Then as soon as one of your team gets focused, the person being focused (Nova or Huntsman it's the same) jumps up out of fire. Because all these good IS brawlers are torso mounted weapons they almost immediately lose the ability to track you. They now either have to just run around, waiting for you to land while your teammates shoot them or.... switch targets.

This allows a Clan team to control who is and is not being focus fired and better keep sustained fire on a single target, burning them down more quickly.

Also, range. HBK IIC on most maps (frozen city, boreal, most of crimson, as examples) run 2 HLL, 2 CERML with 1 HBK IIC and the other 3 brawlers. The ability to drop 2 or 3 50pt hits on them before the fight starts gives you a 100-150 pt damage lead, which is absolutely decisive. Even if you just pick a ST off a Griffin or Bushie, you've halved his firepower before he's fired a shot. Legging for the bonus option.

Clans absolutely can win consistently in scouting, you just need to communicate. The real advantage IS has is there's still some IS teams that drop 4mans in scouting and most Clan scouting groups are pugs.

[l33tworks]

The6thMessenger, on 13 November 2017 - 06:02 AM, said:

Are we talking about brawl scouting, or flat-out invasion? Cause Clan-Laser-Vomit is usually the dedicated FW builds, and that's for mid-range high-alpha poking, not scout brawling material.

Cause griffins have insane arm shields, and shadow-hawks are good at spreading damage.



So what? You still do better damage overtime. You still dealt 80 damage within 4 seconds, when the LB40X only dealt 40.



I wonder what you did wrong. Were you dancing with them? Or making use of range? Also i used to hang back with my team in front of me just at least 100 meters away. So he managed to spread all 16 shells? Cause that could happen.

No It was literally 1vs1 face hug shooting into his ct on polar. I isolated him. I just heated up too much (chain firing) and he just out-dpsed me to death. I managed to get of about 9 shots of the uac20 into his chest (incld torsos) area from the front only but he wasn't even close to dropping.

I tried it a few more times and I managed to get it to work but only if you sneak attack someone and get the jump on them, but I had to overide kamikazi to get the solo kill and die of overheat. IF I stopped till I was cool enough to fire again without going over 100% I would surely by mauled. It just doesn't have enough heat dissipation.

Edited by l33tworks, 13 November 2017 - 05:38 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

l33tworks, on 13 November 2017 - 05:34 PM, said:

No It was literally 1vs1 face hug shooting into his ct on polar. I isolated him. I just heated up too much (chain firing) and he just out-dpsed me to death. I managed to get of about 9 shots of the uac20 into his chest (incld torsos) area from the front only but he wasn't even close to dropping.

I tried it a few more times and I managed to get it to work but only if you sneak attack someone and get the jump on them, but I had to overide kamikazi to get the solo kill and die of overheat. IF I stopped till I was cool enough to fire again without going over 100% I would surely by mauled. It just doesn't have enough heat dissipation.

9 shots as in individual 9 shells? cause UAC20 burst fires 4 shells each doing 5 damage as opposed of a single 20.

Sneak attack -- or fire support. What i did is that i hang at the rear of my team and let them fight, while I peek and shoot.

Also were you super-doubletapping? cause i literally just chainfire all 4 burst. If i hurriedly tapped, overheating tends to happen. I also have 2 coolshots.

[l33tworks]

The6thMessenger, on 13 November 2017 - 05:42 PM, said:

9 shots as in individual 9 shells? cause UAC20 burst fires 4 shells each doing 5 damage as opposed of a single 20.

Sneak attack -- or fire support. What i did is that i hang at the rear of my team and let them fight, while I peek and shoot.

Also were you super-doubletapping? cause i literally just chainfire all 4 burst. If i hurriedly tapped, overheating tends to happen. I also have 2 coolshots.

No 9 lots of 4. Fire left right left right.

[The6thMessenger]

l33tworks, on 13 November 2017 - 06:02 PM, said:

No 9 lots of 4. Fire left right left right.

That's 180 damage. Pretty sure griffin doesn't have above 180 cumulative armor-structure on his CT, or side torso, and griffins usually go XL engine. He must've been able to twist all those damage away, not focus all those in the CT or ST.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 13 November 2017 - 07:19 PM.

[Stf Sgt Marblez]

Haven't tried the dual Uac-20 build yet but after a few scouting matches with that dual Lbx 20 build...

Yup, thats some smoked cheddar right there, mmmmmmm

Bushies too tanky to deal with? Their legs melt just fine


I also want to add that the lbx build makes me feel dirty :l

Like Pig Pen from Peanuts dirty.

[N a p e s]

Well, I don't doubt that people are wrecking face with these! That's a hell of a lot of damage really quickly and if you're a decent shot, taking out enemies should be a short order.

I'm personally no good with the UAC20s, especially in pairs but, I ran a dual LBX20 HBK-IIC all night and it definitely was getting the job done. Feels like I was getting top damage and most kills (at least 2 per match and I got 4 kills a few times) pretty much every time... It's not quite as much of a burst damage build as with the UACs however, a few volleys and you've got a seriously damaged mech in front of you.

Also much easier to cope with heat and I like that it can twist between shots.

[lazorbeamz]

How do you avoid the ghost heat with 2 UAC 20? It must be a super powerful weapon combo but you ll have no chance to twist at all if you want to use both guns without ghost heating.

Edited by lazorbeamz, 13 November 2017 - 11:53 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

lazorbeamz, on 13 November 2017 - 11:52 PM, said:

How do you avoid the ghost heat with 2 UAC 20? It must be a super powerful weapon combo but you ll have no chance to twist at all if you want to use both guns without ghost heating.

Well, you chainfire. Yes it's bad precisely because you couldn't twist, but if you got your enemy in a defensive and couldn't attack at all, that's a plus.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

MischiefSC, on 13 November 2017 - 04:12 PM, said:

Because all these good IS brawlers are torso mounted weapons they almost immediately lose the ability to track you. They now either have to just run around, waiting for you to land while your teammates shoot them or.... switch targets.

This allows a Clan team to control who is and is not being focus fired and better keep sustained fire on a single target, burning them down more quickly.

You desribe nothing more than what a better team can do againts weaker team.

[Lily from animove]

thats because of the event and people battling it out, normally you would just ignore and run away from the slow fatty dual dakka.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

Thats true, as I was experimenting with dual LBX20 Hunchback IIC it was soooo slow. But as long as you can eventually keep up with the team, once the engagement starts, enemy can't really withdraw from it.

[N a p e s]

Teer Kerensky, on 14 November 2017 - 04:08 AM, said:

Thats true, as I was experimenting with dual LBX20 Hunchback IIC it was soooo slow. But as long as you can eventually keep up with the team, once the engagement starts, enemy can't really withdraw from it.

Still rolling around at 78.4 kph. Definitely slower than other options but not too bad.

[Athom83]

New idea; 1 LB-20 + 1 UAC/20.

[N a p e s]

Athom83, on 14 November 2017 - 09:08 AM, said:

New idea; 1 LB-20 + 1 UAC/20.

Or 1 UAC10 and 1 UAC20?

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d70160c81395929

[MischiefSC]

Teer Kerensky, on 14 November 2017 - 02:18 AM, said:

You desribe nothing more than what a better team can do againts weaker team.

Doesn't matter how good the teams are. Even a top tier team can only do what the mech can do. If you've got 228 in a mix of Griffins and Linebackers and 4 pugs in Huntsmen and Novas the exact same issue arises. When the Clan mech jumps out of weapon arc they have 2 choices - wait, holding fire and giving up DPS vs the other team or switching targets - which surrenders damage concentration.

Same with range. I don't care how good you are, on maps with long sight lines range has a big advantage. Which is why you didn't see 228 running Griffins and Bushies in MWOWC for their mediums.