20 replies to this topic

[Nema Nabojiv]

The starting locations in Domination on Grim Plexus and Frozen City are hugely unbalanced. This leads to most matches end up in one sided victory for a 'good' starting point.

The team which happened to spawn on a bad one need to show an exceptional coordination, aggression AND the other team to make a mistake to have any chance to win.

I have no idea where to move the domination circles and spawns for both teams to have even chances, so what I suggest is to get rid of domination on those maps entirely.


Paint madskillz to illustrate:

[MischiefSC]

So on frozen - your spud team moves up 6/7 line. If the other team goes in force to the circle you have overwatch and you shoot the fishies in the barrel. If they also go 7 line, one guy tucks in to the edge of the circle and you stay to your left relative to the enemy - the goal is to put them in a position where you are in an L shape, for example you are I F6/F7/g8 side of G7 and they're in G6/G7. You corner them out and leave them with exposure on 2 sides.

On Grim you need to realize high ground is not always best ground. Depends which side you're on but the low side approaches can be excellent. Most mechs deflect up more than down and with low mounts most mechs have to crest far to get shots down. You just absolutely do NOT want to camp opposite sides of the zone - the G7/F7 side works if you're in the buildings *and* have some people down low cornering. From the other side you go H line and get right up under them on G7, force them to crest in the two narrow openings where they come out 1 at a time and eat fire from your whole team. Then push up the left side of G7. Many of them will have moved to lower ground on G8 because there's no room for everyone in cover in G7 from their side.

Both maps are actually pretty dynamic in Domination. Polar is ****, all you can do is Nascar.

[Nema Nabojiv]

Well yes, there are ways you can win it from the bad resp. The problem is that in overwhelming majority of matches it doesn't happen.

[JediPanther]

You can always tell who will win dom on frozen in the lower spawn just by if they start walking up the 6 line. It isn't that lower team. Who ever has the best guass/ppc snipers in e6 will win. I'd rather go back to hard mode selection and play skirmish only. Let dumb domie have their pee stain sniper fight.

[ocular tb]

Domination on Grim is probably my most frustrating map/mode combination as a light player when spawning on the F7 side. That side definitely seems to be the losing side the vast majority of the times I play it. It's unbalanced and needs some attention.

[Escef]

Nema Nabojiv, on 18 November 2017 - 11:06 AM, said:

I can tell you right now why it happens on Grim. First, as a matter of clarification, the domination circle in the quoted image is a bit under-sized. It actually should include both of the small structures in the F7 grid... And that's a huge part of the problem. People camp the abundant hard cover in F7 and F8, most of which is outside of the circle. Frequently, a single light or fast medium moves up to take cover behind the two small structures in F7, just barely inside of the Domination circle. The rest of the team hangs back, camps cover, and leaves the one or two players contesting the circle to fend for themselves. The majority of the team does not want to engage, because it means leaving cover. Meanwhile, the opposing team has no choice but to move through poorly covered areas if they want to contest the circle, their choice is to expose themselves or lose. Meanwhile, the cowardly team convinces themselves (somehow) that because they have one or two guys contesting the circle that it's perfectly fine to camp cover and make no effort to engage.

Basically none of the quickplay maps has any terrain so good that holding it is worth surrendering mobility and aggression. But people decide to camp areas anyway. When you camp, you give the enemy team the luxury of choosing angle and range of engagement. Little hint: they're going to choose a combination that favors them, not you. More often than not, the team that exhibits group aggression wins. (And I mean aggression against the other team, not focused inward; seen plenty of cowardly teams where the players spend a lot of time and energy fighting about how getting killed and/or losing was everyone else's fault. If people put that much effort into fighting the opfor they would have won.)

[The6thMessenger]

That's funny, on Grim Plexus Domination, i usually urge my team to push ahead into the trenches at F7 - F6, and we usually win. Either starting side, if you get on the hills of either F7 or F6, that's a good upper hand.

[Khobai]

rather than remove it from the game, id rather just see domination fixed, so the the domination circle moves around or so theres multiple domination circles

[Tarl Cabot]

Or even enlarge the circles. No reason for all the circles to be the same size, is there?

[Khobai]

OR multiple circles that constantly move around and change size!

[Davegt27]

No-brain Potato loosers lol

[MischiefSC]

I would rather it be 2 circles - each tied to a random mech on the other team. If they die, it switches.

I'm a bit of a filthy sadist that way. You could have a total Benny Hill game with that. It would be amazing, everyone trying to Keep their circle from the other team while chasing the other.

[HGAK47]

MischiefSC, on 18 November 2017 - 05:36 PM, said:

I would rather it be 2 circles - each tied to a random mech on the other team. If they die, it switches.

I'm a bit of a filthy sadist that way. You could have a total Benny Hill game with that. It would be amazing, everyone trying to Keep their circle from the other team while chasing the other.

Rip if that dom circle gets attached to my Flying Spider.

[Nema Nabojiv]

Escef, on 18 November 2017 - 04:08 PM, said:

More often than not, the team that exhibits group aggression wins.

Yes, sure. And not only in domination but in any mode.

What happens on those two maps however is that one team is placed in a favorable environment to show that aggression. Like that hill in F6 on Plexus, while the other is presented with an illusion of hard cover and they naturally start to camp because hey, great camping spot. Its not great of course but in every match people think it is.

Polar domination is a great example of 'aggression wins' - both team's approaches to the circle are even in terms of cover and whichever team is more willing to attack usually wins. That how it should be on all maps

[East Indy]

It's not the maps. Domination is a half-baked design.

With no way to cap other than eliminating the other team or intimidating K/D-conscious players at the very start or very end of a match, there is zero reason to leave the center, let alone target HQs, relegating the mode to Skirmish in the middle of a map.

Multiple zones might break up groups, but mimic Conquest too closely.

If HQ destruction allowed a team to free-cap for a dangerously long time (30+ seconds) regardless of enemy presence in the circle, pausing only from damage taken, HQ defense and HQ search-and-destroy would become a priority for mobile 'Mechs. Capping would be situational. At the very least, teams wouldn't just shrug, head for the center and hope a generous light brought ECM.

[James Argent]

Mischief, that's not Domination, that's Smear the 'Kweer.' I think that would be hilarious to have as a separate game mode.

Best way I can think of to fix Domination without totally gutting it would be to get rid of a single mech halting the timer merely by 'contesting' the circle and make it so that the timer's speed is governed by the difference between the number of mechs from each team in the circle. You have one mech in the circle but the other team has three? Your two-mech deficit is costing you tick-tocks. Better either get more of your mechs in the circle or kill theirs.

You're supposed to 'dominate' the circle, not stick a toe in and call it good.

[Tarl Cabot]

For a few maps though it would still present a problem. Enlarge the circles on some maps, have the circles expand and contract, or even have an osculating circle fluctuating around either one or two points.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 19 November 2017 - 10:08 AM.

[lazorbeamz]

Why does everyone always pick grim plexus? everyone is a poptart/laser poke?

[Tarl Cabot]

I actually like that map but Dominion is generally lopsided for the one side that spawns in F9/10 area unless they are super aggressive (ROFL...)

[WrathOfDeadguy]

lazorbeamz, on 19 November 2017 - 10:08 AM, said:

Why does everyone always pick grim plexus? everyone is a poptart/laser poke?

I don't know why anyone else picks Plexus, but I pick it for the same reasons I pick Frozen and Tourmaline: it has a good balance between cover, accessibility (your positioning and maneuvering aren't severely limited without jets), and plenty of room to maneuver around teammates (and, once the brawl starts, enemies) without blocking or getting blocked. It also lacks the 'Mech-stopping ground clutter that still plagues maps like Forest, Caustic, and Bog.

Compare to maps like Canyon and HPG, where there are many 'soft' choke points where teammates can easily block access to the most useful ramps and cover, or where one bad turn can leave a 'Mech without jets stuck in a low ground position that could take a significant amount of time to maneuver back out of.

Greater freedom of movement, to me, makes the map more fun to play. I don't feel locked to a single favorable position, I never feel as though I'm competing with my own teammates for firing lanes and escape routes, and when I blunder into a bad position and get killed because of it I know it was because I screwed up and not because I got screwed by bad map design.

For domination, though... I don't really like the mode in general, but the objective placement on Plexus and Frozen is awful. On both maps, it's right in the middle of the worst position on the map, and whoever makes the initial run for the circle is almost invariably left exposed there for several minutes while their team is busy jockeying for position. If you don't go for it, your team will lose very rapidly, but if you do you're often stepping into an early grave and sacrificing your own score (and payout) for a bunch of unappreciative nitwits who'd rather play it safe. The circle needs to be relocated to another position where there is more cover for the 'Mechs taking the point, and if necessary the drop points can then be rearranged so that the objective remains roughly equidistant between the spawns.