67 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

Jun Watarase, on 21 November 2017 - 04:29 PM, said:

On the clan side the most common ER LL mechs are :

MAD-IIC
SNV-C
HBR
EBJ

The HBR/EBJ can do 4x ER LLs with a decent amount of DHS in high torso mounts. SNV-C can do 4 with a large tcomp and tons of DHS in high torso mounts. The MAD-IIC has three high torso mounts and two in the CT, although i cannot remember how high the CT mounts are, but the MAD-IIC has awful agility which is bad for trading, which is why the SNV-C is preferred these days.

You can do 5x ER LLs with 32 DHS on the SNV-C, but that obviously requires using the low slung weapon arms, which nobody wants to do since it means you get focused fired into oblivion while trying to get the arms clear of a hill to fire (and which is why most people dont use warhawks anymore since they cant ridge hump effectively). And most people would probably prefer 4x ER LLs with a tcomp 7 for the zoom/range bonuses anyway.

Its just sad that ER LLs are basically the go to weapon for long range since its basically the i-win button. Gauss cant match the range, ER PPCs are too hot and aren't hitscan, UAC 2s are a DPS weapon which doesnt work for long range. LRMs need no explanation for why they dont work.

There is basically no other viable choice available which is why long ranged maps in FP usually degenerate into ER LL poke fests at extreme ranges when its two decent teams facing off.

I use the SNV-1 with 6 cER LL. It works great.

Also, ER PPCs and UAC2s are great extreme range weapons. UAC2s won't be as popular in FP due to ammo dependence, but saying that ERLLs are the only extreme range weapons is false. UAC2s can out trade ER LL in certain cases... Did you miss that when somebody mentioned that already?

[lazorbeamz]

Jun Watarase, on 21 November 2017 - 03:49 PM, said:

Uh...ghost heat was implemented after people started making 6x PPC stalkers and other massive alpha builds. The entire point was to stop people from doing massive alpha strikes, especially massive PPFLD alpha strikes across the map that could two shot fresh mechs.

Ghost heat is obviously not doing its job if you can fire 5x IS ER LL or 4x C-ERLLs and not take any overheat damage. Theres supposed to be a trade off, either you take the heat penalty or you get increased face time and have to stagger your shots. When you are sniping at 800+m on a cold map, everyone would rather take the heat penalty rather than expose themselves for another 0.5s which would mean getting focused fired into oblivion.

When you are brawling, taking the heat penalty is a bad idea (unless its very minor), because you dont get the luxury of reversing behind cover to cool down. If you have like 9 MPLs and just alpha strike at close range while ignoring the ghost heat, you will quickly hit heat threshold and become useless or kill yourself with overheat damage. At 800+m when both teams are just poking at each other, you can just reverse behind cover and wait because you have plenty of time.

A main issue with long range laser vomit is that you can do massive alpha strikes and eat the ghost heat penalty with no issue, since you are nice and safe at long range. If you had to stagger your shots to avoid the ghost heat penalty, TTK would go up and that would be a good thing.

A 45 damage hitscan alpha from 800+m with a burn time fo less than 1s is very silly. Right now the only long range options are ER LL spam. 30 damage gauss alphas obviously cannot compete, neither can ER PPCs. You can run ER LLs with Gauss of course, but people have discovered that its simply easier to eat the ghost heat penalty and save SP by only investing in duration nodes since 2x gauss + 2x ER LL obviously weighs a ton more than 4-5x ER LLs + DHS.

There should be multiple viable options available, not just ER LL spam. We will have reached that point when teams bring something other than ER LL spam to long ranged maps.

Ghost heat just has WAY too many loop holes. Example :

>UAC 5s got ghost heat because of the 6x UAC 5 direwolf
>except that UAC 5 and 10 ghost heat is not linked
>so people just switched to running 2x UAC 10 + 2x UAC 5 boats instead
>completely defeating the point of giving UAC 5s ghost heat

And plenty of nonsensical stuff like :

>4x SRM-4s do 32 damage
>4x SRM-6s do 48 damage
>4x SRM-6s is fine but 5x SRM-4s trigger ghost heat despite having a much lower alpha strike

GH is a garbage mechanic. My biggest gripe with it is how it hurt boating ballistics.

GH should only stay for lasers, all other GH rules should be lifted.

[ANOM O MECH]

Jun Watarase, on 21 November 2017 - 03:49 PM, said:

Uh...ghost heat was implemented after people started making 6x PPC stalkers and other massive alpha builds. The entire point was to stop people from doing massive alpha strikes, especially massive PPFLD alpha strikes across the map that could two shot fresh mechs.

Ghost heat is obviously not doing its job if you can fire 5x IS ER LL or 4x C-ERLLs and not take any overheat damage. Theres supposed to be a trade off, either you take the heat penalty or you get increased face time and have to stagger your shots. When you are sniping at 800+m on a cold map, everyone would rather take the heat penalty rather than expose themselves for another 0.5s which would mean getting focused fired into oblivion.

When you are brawling, taking the heat penalty is a bad idea (unless its very minor), because you dont get the luxury of reversing behind cover to cool down. If you have like 9 MPLs and just alpha strike at close range while ignoring the ghost heat, you will quickly hit heat threshold and become useless or kill yourself with overheat damage. At 800+m when both teams are just poking at each other, you can just reverse behind cover and wait because you have plenty of time.

A main issue with long range laser vomit is that you can do massive alpha strikes and eat the ghost heat penalty with no issue, since you are nice and safe at long range. If you had to stagger your shots to avoid the ghost heat penalty, TTK would go up and that would be a good thing.

A 45 damage hitscan alpha from 800+m with a burn time fo less than 1s is very silly. Right now the only long range options are ER LL spam. 30 damage gauss alphas obviously cannot compete, neither can ER PPCs. You can run ER LLs with Gauss of course, but people have discovered that its simply easier to eat the ghost heat penalty and save SP by only investing in duration nodes since 2x gauss + 2x ER LL obviously weighs a ton more than 4-5x ER LLs + DHS.

There should be multiple viable options available, not just ER LL spam. We will have reached that point when teams bring something other than ER LL spam to long ranged maps.

Ghost heat just has WAY too many loop holes. Example :

>UAC 5s got ghost heat because of the 6x UAC 5 direwolf
>except that UAC 5 and 10 ghost heat is not linked
>so people just switched to running 2x UAC 10 + 2x UAC 5 boats instead
>completely defeating the point of giving UAC 5s ghost heat

And plenty of nonsensical stuff like :

>4x SRM-4s do 32 damage
>4x SRM-6s do 48 damage
>4x SRM-6s is fine but 5x SRM-4s trigger ghost heat despite having a much lower alpha strike

No. Yes it stops ridiculous builds. However it isn't meant to stop someone from being able to fire five erlgl. The ghost heat limits alphas.

You saying that the erlgl spam should be eliminated is ridiculous. Clan has better ppc's (at least at distance) and better guass. That there unquirked erlgl is superior to unquirked IS mechs is a huge point here as well. Think about guass/erlgl on a Deathstrike. TwinkyOverloard and Proton both seem to really love them..... So they mix very well and especially do to weight, it is harder to do on IS mechs (which is why the tonnage advantage is not really that big of a difference).

So what you are basically saying is that the only option that people running IS mechs have right now should be removed... I don't think so.

[LordNothing]

you know theres an underused cac2 meta when using an 8 gun ultraviolet. optimal range on my build is 1008m. much to the dismay of erll traders it manages to project 16 damage a salvo with crit capability and can fire continuously for quite some time before it needs to cool off. i can make ranged kills with it that i could never do with an erll. its short range capability is just as effective. heat is a problem. the only reason i think it isnt meta is because thats a very slow platform in a game full of 60+kph assaults. but with 1008m range i dont think it matters. it just takes a little longer to get to the point where i can use its armor. its great when used as an assault mech, rather than a tank for all the leeroys in the game.

Edited by LordNothing, 22 November 2017 - 06:47 PM.

[ANOM O MECH]

Vellron2005, on 22 November 2017 - 01:05 AM, said:

I would just like to point something out..

The OP's claims that laservomit meta is coring him out very quickly is true for me as well, but as the OP also stated, only against certain players and certain groups..

I myself have several dedicated laservomit mechs, and it's very frustrating when I'm in a full armor assault, such as a Supernova, Battlemaster or Marauder IIC, and I get a single laser alpha from long range and loose a side torso, while also not being able to replicate said damage and results regardless of build.

If the shooter is at 1000+ meters, or 100 meters, it does not matter. No amount of weapons, laser or otherwise, should be able to take out an assault's side torso, or core-out an assault's CT.. yet, against certain players, from certain groups, this happens every time I see them.

And not just when they are in large groups.. 1-3 of them guarantee almost instant, 1-2 shot kills sometimes..

These "odd" players seem god-like, hack-like, and impossibly good. They have obscene amounts of damage and kills.

Now, I do recognize that a player can be good, coordinated and conditioned, and run a fully optimized mech.. but some of the things that happen around these certain players just seem impossible..

On more than one occasion, I personally have gone 1 vs 1 with some of these players.. (I really have to start recording my drops), and the oddest things happen.. things like you shoot them with full laser alpha, they barely change a shade, they shoot back, you loose a body part..

I've asked multiple times for PGI to investigate, sent screenshots and reports... all I ever got were automated response emails and a warn for breaking the COC when talking about it..

Now I know what you gonna say.. video or it didn't happen..

The simple fact is.. I really don't blame people who simply disconnect when they see some of these "odd" players on the enemy team. They make the game less fun for everybody, and it's only logical that people don't want to play against them. Its like racing a bicycle against a Lamborghini with the judges looking the other way..

Its not fun at all..

Exactly what hack do you think these certain players are using to increase their damage output.... which would be server controlled.

[YueFei]

Vellron2005, on 22 November 2017 - 02:26 AM, said:

I know about this from Zellbrigen trainig, but how do you explain shooting one of "those players" from point-blank, full frontal, to the CT, with 6 x ERMediums and 2 Large pulse, and they don't even change a shade, and they shoot back and take of an intact side torso?

These are the things I'm talking about..

Direct, clean shots to the CT, that fail to register, and enemy taking off components despite torso twisting and full armor..

I stress.. only against certain players from certain units..

I know I know.. video or it didn't happen..

Point-blank range doesn't necessarily allow you to land your shot entirely on one hitbox, it just helps remove human error in aiming precision from the equation.

However, some mechs have a combination of accel/decel + turn rate and hitboxes that allows them to actually juke faster than human reflexes can keep up with... not necessarily to make a shot miss, but to cause even a perfectly-aimed shot to slip to an adjacent hitbox. A lateral displacement of ~1 meter is often enough, and that will cause a shot to slip to an adjacent hitbox regardless of distance from the shooter to the target.

That's why even when the top players fight each other, they don't all end up cored out with no damage anywhere else, and instead typically take damage across multiple hitboxes.

Most people don't notice their shots going astray in the heat of the moment, but if you record your matches and slow them down frame by frame you'll see it.

Against most players, simply moving laterally (without changing speed or direction) is enough to make damage spread, but against the very best, you have to do more, and you have to time it correctly.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that I can do it, since I'm mediocre, but I think you'll find these observations of mine are true nonetheless, and if you want to get better at the game you'll have to stop throwing shade at other players with thinly-veiled accusations of cheating, and learn from them some of these little tricks and mechanics, and practice and improve.

[Snazzy Dragon]

https://imgur.com/yv2dfa3

Just an example of what focused fire can do.. but count the number of ERLL it took. A single mech or even two ERLL boats couldn't do that

[Vxheous]

Snazzy Dragon, on 24 November 2017 - 07:37 PM, said:

https://imgur.com/yv2dfa3

Just an example of what focused fire can do.. but count the number of ERLL it took. A single mech or even two ERLL boats couldn't do that

But he only saw the one shot and died, it's OP