33 replies to this topic

[Zh0u]

Hey all,

I have been using the HBR-PRIME Laser Vomit ever since I started playing last week. Right now I have upgraded it to Master and looking for my next adventure. I have tested out the MAL and KDK trial mechs and I think I like to semi tank/brawl with a Dakka build.

Any recommendations? I'm also open to other classes, but mainly one that excels in Dakka.

Thank you in advance.

[Exard3k]

Kodiaks are pretty solid on Clan side. Variety of weapon loadouts on the variants....with it's dakka variant the infamous KDK-3

IS side...if you want dakka builds, either go for mauler or king crab

Edited by Exard3k, 22 November 2017 - 05:53 AM.

[The Basilisk]

Weeeeelllll.
Assaults are neither tanks or brawlers. (too slow for brawlers and too large hitboxes to be realy tanky, besides this is no fantasy MMORPG and we have no healers ... so no tanks in here either)
Except for those assaults that realy can not do anything but serve as damage sponges because they are either to slow or to undergunned to be able to do anything else.

Both Mauler and KDK-3 are ballistic heavy, assault support guns with squishy armor stats and squishy hitboxes.
Their main strengths are their overwhelming and rattling firepower that incents the enemy to rather search cover than just kill the Assault or just snap some alibi shots of before running.
Their main drawback is that they absolutely can not, despite their for assaults decent speeds, retreat from a fight or weather continuous aimed fire.
The moment you get focused by two or three mechs that have a remote idea of what they are doing it is over.

Two other dakka alternatives would be Direwolf and Annihilator.
And I realy can not recommend the Direwolf.
The Annihilator can actually absorp ridiculous ammounts of damage and bring a fearsome arsenal to the field.
Its downside is its maximum speed of 52kph when skilled.

PS: KGC has low,low,low armhardpoints and a nasty tendency to catch twice the ammount of spreadfire weapons than other mechs.

Edited by The Basilisk, 22 November 2017 - 05:53 AM.

[Horseman]

KDK-3 can be pretty good if you put in a large engine (350 minimum) and invest into the movement skills.

However, ask yourself which faction you're going to be dropping for in Faction Warfare - an Assault is a huge investment and you don't want your first to be useless for FW especially when a FW event is starting today.

Edited by Horseman, 22 November 2017 - 06:19 AM.

[Zh0u]

The Basilisk, on 22 November 2017 - 05:51 AM, said:

Weeeeelllll.
Assaults are neither tanks or brawlers. (too slow for brawlers and too large hitboxes to be realy tanky, besides this is no fantasy MMORPG and we have no healers ... so no tanks in here either)
Except for those assaults that realy can not do anything but serve as damage sponges because they are either to slow or to undergunned to be able to do anything else.

Both Mauler and KDK-3 are ballistic heavy, assault support guns with squishy armor stats and squishy hitboxes.
Their main strengths are their overwhelming and rattling firepower that incents the enemy to rather search cover than just kill the Assault or just snap some alibi shots of before running.
Their main drawback is that they absolutely can not, despite their for assaults decent speeds, retreat from a fight or weather continuous aimed fire.
The moment you get focused by two or three mechs that have a remote idea of what they are doing it is over.

Two other dakka alternatives would be Direwolf and Annihilator.
And I realy can not recommend the Direwolf.
The Annihilator can actually absorp ridiculous ammounts of damage and bring a fearsome arsenal to the field.
Its downside is its maximum speed of 52kph when skilled.

PS: KGC has low,low,low armhardpoints and a nasty tendency to catch twice the ammount of spreadfire weapons than other mechs.

In that case, if I prefer Dakka, I probably shouldn't go Assault?

[Zh0u]

Horseman, on 22 November 2017 - 06:16 AM, said:

KDK-3 can be pretty good if you put in a large engine (350 minimum) and invest into the movement skills.

However, ask yourself which faction you're going to be dropping for in Faction Warfare - an Assault is a huge investment and you don't want your first to be useless for FW especially when a FW event is starting today.

To be honest I haven't give any thought to Faction Warfare as I'm still a very new player. In that case I shouldn't go for an Assault so early into the game? Perhaps another Heavy or a Medium with Dakka capabilities?

[Koniving]

Some people don't do well in assaults and will try to force that experience on others. The trick to that is where you put your armor and how you play. The playstyle that does well for a Light is basically going to get an Assault slaughtered, for example.

For an idea of assault tankiness, check here, here, here, here and here.

And for those naysayers complaining of large hitboxes and inability to brawl..this mech's been continuously called out for being nerfed into oblivion... yet no one praises it after it's been buffed out of oblivion. This is during the nerfs.

Ideal tonnage is 85.
90 and 95 does pretty well. 100 tonnage is more functionally a damage soak and enemy annihilation mech, but similar to and more so than any other assault, every single move should be meticulously planned. Can't go rambo like my Highlander. This said, here's an example of that. (Note blue is enemy, purple is ally in the first half.) And if everything works the way it should but never does.. here's an example of the ideal scenario.

[The Basilisk]

Zh0u, on 22 November 2017 - 06:22 AM, said:

In that case, if I prefer Dakka, I probably shouldn't go Assault?

No, no I didn't say that.
Assaults are infact the go to chassis when it comes to carry heavy ballistics or even boat them.
Just do not expect to be able to wade into the enemy guns blazing.
While Assaults sure have enormous armor capabilitys just remember that they are also slow and by definition very, very large.

The main theme of Assault gameplay is to find the right moment and place to commit into the fight while keeping up with your team and not getting assassinated by light and fast mechs.

As Kon said the sweet spot for firepower vs. durability vs. mobility is (for clan mechs that is due to nonlethal XL) is at 85 tonns (75 for inner sphere due to worse speed/weight ratio)

I would claim that this does not necessarily goes for Ballistic boats since your main defense is your ability to blind and rattle your opponent.
You may also have spotted the weak spot in this concept already.
Your OPPONENT (singular)
Since most ballistic boats need some time to bring their full firecycle to bear you are also pretty exposed to returnfire.
If you go versus a single enemy that faces you it's all good since he will have some problems with SFX and crosshair shake while you are firing at him.
If there are two or more enemys you either will absorb more fire than you can dish out or just absorb some fire and go back into cover.
So the bigger and more durable your ballistic mech is, the better since you will have to face some punishment either way.

Also note that all his "tanky assault builds" expect the enemy to fall for shenanigans and the use of grossly outdated mechs that will get focused last.
Again an enemy that spots an Assault in the open will either just run or quickly focus him down.
High damage and top priority targets like the KDK, Mauler or Annihilator double so.

If you choose to go for hybrid builds (hybrid energy and ballistics) you may go for the Marauder IIC that actually is good in absorbing enemy fire through roling and beeing mobile enough to poke and retreat.

Edited by The Basilisk, 22 November 2017 - 08:10 AM.

[Zh0u]

Ok, thanks for the insight everyone. I'll continue to test the Trial Kodiak and try to learn using Assault mechs.

MAD-IIC Hybrid might be something I like as well.

If Assault is not a requirement, which other Dakka setup would you guys recommend?

[CFC Conky]

Are you buying with c-bills or real money and what size/how many of ballistic weapons do you want to carry. A lot of dakka mechs boat the 5 class guns, while others do ok with the 10 class, some carry both. There are even a few that can pull off 2x20 class guns.

Clan mechs I have the Mad-IIC-A which can carry 3xac5 and for IS the MAL-MX90 is a decent dakka boat.

Just remember that when you are in an Assault class mech you will be a priority target for the enemy.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[Zh0u]

CFC Conky, on 22 November 2017 - 10:38 AM, said:

Are you buying with c-bills or real money and what size/how many of ballistic weapons do you want to carry. A lot of dakka mechs boat the 5 class guns, while others do ok with the 10 class, some carry both. There are even a few that can pull off 2x20 class guns.

Clan mechs I have the Mad-IIC-A which can carry 3xac5 and for IS the MAL-MX90 is a decent dakka boat.

Just remember that when you are in an Assault class mech you will be a priority target for the enemy.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

Hi,

Thanks for the reply. I'm only buying with C-Bills. Regarding the size of the ballistics, I don't really have much idea of it, other than I kinda like the Dakka build I got to try with the MAL and HBK-IIC Trial mechs.

[Rogue Jedi]

Zh0u, on 22 November 2017 - 11:32 AM, said:

Hi,

Thanks for the reply. I'm only buying with C-Bills. Regarding the size of the ballistics, I don't really have much idea of it, other than I kinda like the Dakka build I got to try with the MAL and HBK-IIC Trial mechs.

there is a lot of choice when it comes to balistic weapons, for now lets disregard the 6 types of Machine Gun ^{(if you want them look at the 25 ton Mist Lynx, 30 ton Arctic Cheetah, and 45 ton Blackjack or Shadow Cat)}
for the serious balistic weapons they fall into 2 basic familys the Gauss and Auto Cannon

there ae a total of 4 types of Gauss, defining traits of Gauss are a charge up time, and a high velocity single slug, Gauss rifles are the closest thing MWO has to sniper rifles

the Clan Gauss Rifle is simular to the Inner Sphere (standard) Gauss Rifle, the Clan varient is 12 tons to the IS varients 15 and takes up fewer slots, otherwise they are both rather simular, both fire a 15 damage shell at high velocity and long range
the Inner Sphere also has Light and Heavy Gauss Rifles,

light is longer range, faster rate of fire but less damage per shot, and weighs the same as the Clan Gauss,

the heavy Gauss lives up to its name, the heaviest weapon currently available in game, it takes up 11 slots meaning it can only fit in a side torso, and only if you are using a standard engine, and it has a rather short optomum range, however while most weapons start doing reduced damage past optomum range and reach 0 damage at 2-3 times optomum, the HGauss drops off much further with damage reaching 0 at about 4 times optomum range, and it does more damage than any AC or Gauss rated above 2 in its optomum range.

as for the Autocannons, Clan has 3 and Inner Sphere factions have 4 familys of AC

in all cases the 20 hits hardest (20 damage), but takes longest to reload and has the shortest range and lowest velocity, 10 is lower damage, longer rannge, faster reload and higher velocity, 5 again is faster, longer range faster reload, higher velocity and does less damage than the 10, 2 has the longest range and highest velocity but does the least damage per shot

for Clans
Ultra ACs fire a burst of shells (except the 2 which is single shot) and if you tap fire again before it is reloaded you can get off another volly at the risk of jamming the gun, it will automaticly unjam after a few seconds, the higher the calaber the longer it takes to clear the jam

standard ACs are basicly Ultras without the double tap ability with no chance of jamming, however they are much more expensive than cUACs and are usualy also bulkier, they were put in when Clans were introduced as a placeholder for ammo switching LBX ACs which 3.5 years later PGI still has not figured out how to implement

LBX ACs work the same for both Clan and IS, they fire a number of pelets each time you pull the trigger, I believe they fire a number equal to the guns calaber and each does 1 damage, LBX ACs are basicly Mech shotguns. they have a good chance of critical hits which can do bonus damage against structure

as for IS ACs
the standard class ACs fire a single shell for their damage number, the shell does a single impact and (assuming you do not destroy the componant) deals its while damage to just that 1 componant

Ultra ACs 2 and 5 fire a single shell, 10 and 20 fire a burst, and you can (same as the Clan varients) double tap for faster rate of fire at risk of jamming

Rotary ACs, IS Only, available in class 2 and 5 only, fire a continous burst of shells as long as you keep the fire button pushed down or until they jam, think minigun, there is a spin up and spin down time before starting and after stopping firing, the longer you keep firing the higher the risk of a jam you have a jam risk indicator on the HUD, when you jam you have to wait a while for it to unjam.

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 22 November 2017 - 10:19 PM.

[CFC Conky]

Nice summary Rogue Jedi,

Just to add a little more to it, the standard IS AC10 got a velocity buff in a recent patch and is now, imo, a very good weapon for mechs that can only carry one gun. The IS LB10-X is lighter, takes one less slot, has more range a bit more velocity at the cost of spreading its damage. Some players hate the thing, personally, I find it very effective, at least in qp. Your mileage may vary .

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[Zh0u]

Rogue Jedi, on 22 November 2017 - 12:26 PM, said:

there is a lot of choice when it comes to balistic weapons, for now lets disregard the 6 types of Machine Gun ^{(if you want them look at the 25 ton Mist Lynx, 30 ton Arctic Cheetah, and 45 ton Blackjack or Shadow Cat)}
for the serious balistic weapons they fall into 2 basic familys the Gauss and Auto Cannon

there ae a total of 4 types of Gauss, defining traits of Gauss are a charge up time, and a high velocity single slug, Gauss rifles are the closest thing MWO has to sniper rifles

the Clan Gauss Rifle is simular to the Inner Sphere (standard) Gauss Rifle, the Clan varient is 12 tons to the IS varients 15 and takes up fewer slots, otherwise they are both rather simular, both fire a 15 damage shell at high velocity and long range
the Inner Sphere also has Light and Heavy Gauss Rifles,

light is longer range, faster rate of fire but less damage per shot, and weighs the same as the Clan Gauss,

the heavy Gauss lives up to its name, the heaviest weapon currently available in game, it takes up 11 slots meaning it can only fit in a side torso, and only if you are using a standard engine, and it has a rather short optomum range, however while most weapons start doing reduced damage past optomum range and reach 0 damage at 2-3 times optomum, the HGauss drops off much further with damage reaching 0 at about 4 times optomum range, and it does more damage than any AC or Gauss rated above 2 in its optomum range.

as for the Autocannons, Clan has 3 and Inner Sphere factions have 4 familys of AC

in all cases the 20 hits hardest (20 damage), but takes longest to reload and has the shortest range and lowest velocity, 10 is lower damage, longer rannge, faster reload and higher velocity, 5 again is faster, longer range faster reload, higher velocity and does less damage than the 10, 2 has the longest range and highest velocity but does the least damage per shot

for Clans
Ultra ACs fire a burst of shells (except the 2 which is single shot) and if you tap fire again before it is reloaded you can get off another volly at the risk of jamming the gun, it will automaticly unjam after a few seconds, the higher the calaber the longer it takes to clear the jam

standard ACs are basicly Ultras without the double tap ability with no chance of jamming, however they are much more expensive than cUACs and are usualy also bulkier, they were put in when Clans were introduced as a placeholder for ammo switching LBX ACs which 3.5 years later PGI still has not figured out how to implement

LBX ACs work the same for both Clan and IS, they fire a number of pelets each time you pull the trigger, I believe they fire a number equal to the guns calaber and each does 1 damage, LBX ACs are basicly Mech shotguns. they have a good chance ofscr against structure

as for IS ACs
the standard class ACs fire a single shell for their damage number, the shell does a single impact and (assuming you do not destroy the componant) deals its while damage to just that 1 componant

Ulra ACs 2 and 5 fire a single shell, 10 and 20 fire a burst, and you can (same as the Clan varients) double tap for faster rate of fire at risk of jamming

Rotary ACs, IS Only, available in class 2 and 5 only, fire a continous burst of shells as long as you kep the fire button pushed down or until they jam, think minigun, there is a spin up and spin down time before starting and after stopping firing, the longer you keep firing the higher the risk of a jam you have a jam risk indicator on the HUD, when you jam you have to wait a while for it to unjam.

Thank you so much for the thorough explanation!

Personally what is your favorite mech/build for ACs?

[Rogue Jedi]

Zh0u, on 22 November 2017 - 12:51 PM, said:

Thank you so much for the thorough explanation!

Personally what is your favorite mech/build for ACs?

I am not a great fan of ACs ^{(I usualy prefer Gauss, Machine Guns, SRMs and pulse lasers on faster Mechs)} but here are a few builds where I have made good use of them in the past, bear in mind I just used the max armor button so armor allocations are likely a long way out

Hunchback 4G a newtech upgrade of the classic brawler build
Cataphract Ilya Muramets mid range fire support
Catapult K2 another mid range fire support build
Atlas S The AC20 and 16 SRMs are your main punch the Medium lasers are just there in case you run low on ammo

[Koniving]

Zh0u, on 22 November 2017 - 09:05 AM, said:

Ok, thanks for the insight everyone. I'll continue to test the Trial Kodiak and try to learn using Assault mechs.

MAD-IIC Hybrid might be something I like as well.

If Assault is not a requirement, which other Dakka setup would you guys recommend?

Jagers, Rifleman (3C or Hero), Roughneck, Thunderbolt (less daka more pew; run with STD engine to tank better than most lighter assaults despite only being 65 tons). On the Clan side, Night Gyr is probably the best suited with some interesting less dedicated options for the Ebon Jaguar.

In addition to the Thunderbolt, less dakka-dedicated Dakka users include Orions (both sides) and the IS Marauder.

[Horseman]

Dragon 5N is a pretty nice 3xUAC/2 boat if you don't mind that the ballistic mounts are at waist level. The mech is pretty agile and good enough to last quite a while into the fight . Alternatively, look into Jagermech DD and other mechs with a UAC Jam Chance quirk.

[Zh0u]

Horseman, on 22 November 2017 - 03:11 PM, said:

Dragon 5N is a pretty nice 3xUAC/2 boat if you don't mind that the ballistic mounts are at waist level. The mech is pretty agile and good enough to last quite a while into the fight . Alternatively, look into Jagermech DD and other mechs with a UAC Jam Chance quirk.

Yeah, I just saw it on Youtube, seems like a good Dakka mech. So many good choices out there, really quite hard to make a decision.

[Brizna]

One mustn't confuse brawling as a whole being in bad situation with assaults being unable to brawl. Whenever brawling has been in a good position in the power balance brawling assaults have shined; those mechs are: Atlas, Victor, Cyclops, Executioner and Gargoyle. Any of these mechs will struggle to do well now, but that's because at the moment brawling sucks, that might change any time.

[Leone]

Well, looks like I'm late to the party an you've already gotten tonnes of good advice. I'd suggest then at least clan side, trying out all the various ballistics options available (lbx, uac, gauss, etc...) since you've already gotten an HBR-prime which comes with a ballistics torso. You can add on a right arm (HBR-F's for instance) with ballistics to go dual whatevers just to test concepts.

I do have an assault guide if'n you're interested as well.

Edit: added an example of atlas brawling in Community Warfare to add proof to the above post.

~Leone.

Edited by Leone, 22 November 2017 - 05:27 PM.