183 replies to this topic

[Ensaine]

I've been here awhile, and I can tell you this .....

Back in the day, when you were driving a light or medium, and came around a corner right into the chin of an Atlas or other Assault, you crapped your pants. Even heavy pilots were not too keen on chin tanking assaults.

Now, an assault pilot gets one Arctic Cheetah or Myst Lynx on him, and the assault pilot craps his pants.

Yes, things are different.

Edited by Ensaine, 26 November 2017 - 03:58 AM.

[Captain Stiffy]

Ensaine, on 26 November 2017 - 03:58 AM, said:

I've been here awhile, and I can tell you this .....

Back in the day, when you were driving a light or medium, and came around a corner right into the chin of an Atlas or other Assault, you crapped your pants. Even heavy pilots were not too keen on chin tanking assaults.

Now, an assault pilot gets one Arctic Cheetah or Myst Lynx on him, and the assault pilot craps his pants.

Yes, things are different.

I tried to come back and play again but it's extremely obvious (as it ever was) that their plan is simply to make everything they've already sold suck and sell more crap.

No stock mode
Assaults suck ***
Balance in general sucks
P2W

Cya

[xe N on]

Captain Stiffy, on 26 November 2017 - 02:48 AM, said:

No. Wrong. Bad.

SOME assaults are fast enough to compete. Most IS assaults are too slow to have in an actual match.

You are wrong. Slow assaults are not the problem. Slow assault are specialists and have some purpose as super heavy weapon platforms. However, not any game mode or map support slow whales.

Map and game mode selection is more or less "random". Faster assaults, e.g. like the MAD-IIC, are therefore more flexible and therefore perform overall better than slow assaults, like e.g. the Direwolf.

The very problem is not that slow assaults are generally worse than faster ones - but that you cannot adapt the mech you drop with to the map or game mode.

The solution is not to make slow assaults faster (maybe more mobile), but allow player to choose from a preselected pool of mechs (similar to the drop deck in faction play) to drop with. The next step would be to allow different load-outs for Omnimechs to be saved and selected before drop.

That IS assaults are generally slower than Clanner is a technology and balance problem, since Clan XL is superior to every thing that IS has. Therefore, building an clan assault you need to to decide between survivability or fire power. You can have both.

Edited by xe N on, 26 November 2017 - 05:38 AM.

[Nema Nabojiv]

xe N on, on 26 November 2017 - 05:34 AM, said:

The solution is not to make slow assaults faster (maybe more mobile), but allow player to choose from a preselected pool of mechs (similar to the drop deck in faction play) to drop with. The next step would be to allow different load-outs for Omnimechs to be saved and selected before drop.

Polar highlands been voted? Take any lurmboat of your liking or a kitfox!
Mordor won? Take your specially adapted for hot maps ballistic boat. And so on. Terrible idea.

[xe N on]

Nema Nabojiv, on 26 November 2017 - 05:42 AM, said:

Polar highlands been voted? Take any lurmboat of your liking or a kitfox!
Mordor won? Take your specially adapted for hot maps ballistic boat. And so on. Terrible idea.

Yeah, your right. Where I had my mind. It's much better to directly idle for 15 min in the match or even kill your self by overheating if you drop as SRM-brawler into polar highlands or LRM boat into HPG ... much more fun!

And - beside - what game forces players into tactical choices by allowing to adapt equipment before entering the map! Ha - that would be completely irrational! It's not like this game is praised as a thinking man's shooter ...

And, at least, just look at real life military! It's commonly known that there are no specialized forces or equipment adaption for different environments. And Generals always sending their troops in t-shirt and shorts into arctic conditions with -50°C and with winter clothes into the desert!

Yeah, dropping with mech that is adapted to the environment would totally break immersion.

Edited by xe N on, 26 November 2017 - 06:40 AM.

[Nema Nabojiv]

xe N on, on 26 November 2017 - 06:29 AM, said:

yeah, your right. Where I had my mind. It's much better to directly idle for 15 min in the match or even kill your self by overheating if you drop as SRM-brawler into polar highlands or LRM boat into HPG ... much more fun!

Its a challenge to play to your strong sides and challenges are what makes games interesting.

Mech selection after map voting will eventually lead to stale map meta where mechs specifically designed for that particular map do the same thing over and over again. We already have this to some degree, but mech selection will make it even more boring.

[xe N on]

Nema Nabojiv, on 26 November 2017 - 06:45 AM, said:

Its a challenge to play to your strong sides and challenges are what makes games interesting.

Mech selection after map voting will eventually lead to stale map meta where mechs specifically designed for that particular map do the same thing over and over again. We already have this to some degree, but mech selection will make it even more boring.

It' not leading to a challenge. It gives a limited amount of weapons and mechs advantages because they are general purpose. Peek-a-boo with laser vomit is a direct consequence.

Instead of a (stale) map meta (which would be different for alot of maps) we have one meta that is selected because it works for any map. With map selection you would have at least several types of game play and not only peek-a-boo but everything between LRM rain to SRM brawling.

Edited by xe N on, 26 November 2017 - 07:05 AM.

[KingCobra]

I still play my assaults from time to time when i do play anymore but they are highly venerable to lights and other fast movers with machine guns plus the blinding OP weapons animation in your cockpit view its almost impossible to survive a battle in a assault unless your a long range build.

It used to be a good brawling assault with AC20, streaks, and a few med lasers could get kills and be a asset in battles but not any more unless your lucky.Some lights and mediums now will easy tank and kill a assault fast so its just like why use them unless its just for fun.

I think PGI needs to tone down the few rouge lights left and nerf the machine guns a bit more to balance the game better.

Edited by KingCobra, 26 November 2017 - 07:17 AM.

[Damnedtroll]

Reduce ghost heat on big weapons for assault... a king crab that cannot fire his main guns at the same time is just plainly stupid. Same thing with quad large laser or large pulses builds.

We need to be able to deliver firepower in assault or just buff their armor up.

[MischiefSC]

Slow brawler were always bad.

Assaults work great - MAD IIC is beastly for example. Deathstrike is best killer in the gsme. MC MKII overall is an amazing killer.

Slow, short range mechs though are always bad.

[Nema Nabojiv]

Damnedtroll, on 26 November 2017 - 07:40 AM, said:

Reduce ghost heat on big weapons for assault... a king crab that cannot fire his main guns at the same time is just plainly stupid. Same thing with quad large laser or large pulses builds.

That's a good idea not only for assaults but as a general rule - to not apply ghostheat to a mech's default weapons loadout. Whether its two AC20 or 12 ERMLs or whatever.

[lazorbeamz]

GH for energy stays we all know why.

GH for ballistics should be lifted. they cost a lot of tons and need to be aimed with already.

[xe N on]

MischiefSC, on 26 November 2017 - 08:08 AM, said:

Slow brawler were always bad.

Assaults work great - MAD IIC is beastly for example. Deathstrike is best killer in the gsme. MC MKII overall is an amazing killer.

Slow, short range mechs though are always bad.

I was just curious and took my MAD-IIC out again. Compared to playing IS mediums it felt like cheating.

So yeah, assault pilots dying out. Because of boredom.

Edited by xe N on, 26 November 2017 - 09:13 AM.

[Sjorpha]

The premise of this discussion is just false, the queue is full of assaults and as a weight class they're stronger than both lights and mediums.

[Damnedtroll]

Nema Nabojiv, on 26 November 2017 - 08:17 AM, said:

That's a good idea not only for assaults but as a general rule - to not apply ghostheat to a mech's default weapons loadout. Whether its two AC20 or 12 ERMLs or whatever.

Yeah no ghost heat on default weapon loadout and maybe some bonus like buff for default loadout only. Would be great and will bring diversity in the weapons fielded.

[BlueStrat]

xe N on, on 26 November 2017 - 05:34 AM, said:

You are wrong. Slow assaults are not the problem. Slow assault are specialists and have some purpose as super heavy weapon platforms. However, not any game mode or map support slow whales.

Map and game mode selection is more or less "random". Faster assaults, e.g. like the MAD-IIC, are therefore more flexible and therefore perform overall better than slow assaults, like e.g. the Direwolf.

The very problem is not that slow assaults are generally worse than faster ones - but that you cannot adapt the mech you drop with to the map or game mode.

The solution is not to make slow assaults faster (maybe more mobile), but allow player to choose from a preselected pool of mechs (similar to the drop deck in faction play) to drop with. The next step would be to allow different load-outs for Omnimechs to be saved and selected before drop.

That IS assaults are generally slower than Clanner is a technology and balance problem, since Clan XL is superior to every thing that IS has. Therefore, building an clan assault you need to to decide between survivability or fire power. You can have both.

My thought was to make it simple and fair. Allow players to pick one variant they own of the general 'mech chassis they've selected to play. Most 'mechs have at least 3 variants, usually more, with varying loadouts, quirks, hardpoint types/numbers, specialties, etc. It would allow players to build an array of variants to fit different maps/modes and give them a reason to buy all/most of the available variants instead of the one 'meta' variant and build their loadouts diversely.

That way you don't end up dying uselessly and quickly on Alpine Peaks in your short-range brawler or in Domination on Mining Colony in a long range gauss/PPC/ERLL sniper build. There's little in this game more frustrating than being forced to play a map/mode for which your 'mech's loadout is garbage when your other variant of the same 'mech would be a better fit. People might also be more apt to vote for and play (and actually *enjoy*!!) some of the currently less-popular maps (Terra Therma for example?) if they could bring a suitable variant/build. Take some of the RNG factor out and put more emphasis on player's creativeness with builds and actual skill as a pilot rather than being at the mercy of RNGesus.

Edited by BlueStrat, 26 November 2017 - 10:43 AM.

[Nightbird]

This thread is still going? lol

Assaults still best weight class by stats, even if you think they suck others are doing well with them.

[Khobai]

Quote

Assaults still best weight class by stats,

perhaps but they still have issues that need to be addressed

no assault should accelerate slower than 12kph for example

because you cannot physically move out of an artillery dropped directly on you if you accelerate slower than 12kph

[xe N on]

BlueStrat, on 26 November 2017 - 09:40 AM, said:

My thought was to make it simple and fair. Allow players to pick one variant of the general 'mech chassis they've selected to play. Most 'mechs have at least 3 variants, usually more, with varying loadouts, quirks, specialties, etc. It would allow players to build an array of variants to fit different maps/modes and give them a reason to buy all/most of the available variants instead of the one 'meta' variant and build their loadouts diversely.

That way you don't end up dying uselessly and quickly on Alpine Peaks in your short-range brawler or Domination on Mining Colony in a long range gauss/PPC/ERLL sniper build. There's little in this game more frustrating than being forced to play a map/mode for which your 'mech's loadout is garbage when your other variant of the same 'mech would be a better fit.

That would solve the weapon layout problem (e.g. brawler on alpine or polar) but unfortunately not the slow assault problem. I could imagine a drop deck of up to four mechs from one class. For example for Assault: Atlas for Brawling, MAD-IIC for general purpose, Dire Whale for heavy fire and Gargoyle for fast engagements. After map selection the player can choose with which of these mech he like to drop.

Khobai, on 26 November 2017 - 09:49 AM, said:

perhaps but they still have issues that need to be addressed

no assault should accelerate slower than 12kph for example

because you cannot physically move out of an artillery dropped directly on you if you accelerate slower than 12kph

Simply make artillery strike delay longer. Problem solved. And by this we might also experience less "Artillery strike Warrior online", which would be good too.

Edited by xe N on, 26 November 2017 - 09:57 AM.

[BlueStrat]

xe N on, on 26 November 2017 - 09:54 AM, said:

That would solve the weapon layout problem (e.g. brawler on alpine or polar) but unfortunately not the slow assault problem.

(....)

Simply make artillery strike delay longer. Problem solved. And by this we might also experience less "Artillery strike Warrior online", which would be good too.

Well, my thought regarding that was that you could at the very least have one build with a big engine as an option to choose on particularly strike-prone maps. I understand that it's nowhere near a solution for 'mechs like the Dire that are still slow as molasses in winter even with a maxed engine.

I like your idea regarding increasing strike delays, and coupled with the ability to have a "faster" build/variant available to choose would go a long ways towards mitigating the problem. I could also see strike damage percentages being implemented on a curve based on weight/class/max speed/armor, or even adjusted one way or another for a specific 'mech/variant that might be an outlier.

Edited by BlueStrat, 26 November 2017 - 11:11 AM.