79 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

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Yeah IS Peepers need some buffs but it would take absurd levels of buffing to make them equal to the 15 PPFLD CERPPC.

who said they should be equal? IS get 5 different PPCs. clans only get 1. so the clan one should be way better.

Because IS can pick a PPC thats specialized for a specific role. Clans cant do that, their one and only PPC has to be able to perform every role. It has to be a heavy PPC and ERPPC all rolled into one

When you wanna give clans 5 different PPCs too, then they can be equal.

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That comparison is not equal to the PPC comparison because the CERPPC is actually legit good on its own merits. It's not just "less underpowered" than the IS.

maybe at one time it was legit good. its just okay now. laser vomit is way better.

warhawk-C is pretty much the last holdout for CERPPCs and you dont see those nearly as much now that they got nerfed. purifiers and summoners with CERPPCs seem to have disappeared.

CERPPC doesnt do enough damage. the way splash damage works is utterly stupid because the damage vanishes into thin air if you hit arms or legs or head. laser vomit hurts way more and you can aim for legs without losing damage.

Edited by Khobai, 23 November 2017 - 04:19 PM.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 23 November 2017 - 04:08 PM, said:

who said they should be equal? IS get 5 different PPCs. clans only get 1. so the clan one should be way better.

Because IS can pick a PPC thats specialized for a specific role. Clans cant do that, their PPC has to perform every role.

The Clan ERPPC should be the most versatile (which it arguably already is), but it shouldn't be the most powerful across every job. You're asking for the latter.

Khobai, on 23 November 2017 - 04:08 PM, said:

maybe at one time it was legit good. its just okay now. laser vomit is way better.

warhawk-C is pretty much the last holdout for CERPPCs and you dont see those nearly as much now that they got nerfed. purifiers and summoners with CERPPCs seem to have disappeared.

CERPPC doesnt do enough damage. the way splash damage works is utterly stupid because the damage vanishes into thin air if you hit arms or legs or head. laser vomit hurts way more and you can aim for legs without losing damage.

There's also the Puma Prime, Nova A, Hunchie IIC A, a few weird Huntsmen, Night Gyrs, Marauder IICs...

Fixing the "lost splash" issue is the only buff that the CERPPC could possibly need. Every other part of the gun is fine. Some of the Clan lasers just need to get dialed back a bit, rather than creeping the power baseline even higher up.

Edited by FupDup, 23 November 2017 - 04:39 PM.

[Vellron2005]

JackalBeast, on 23 November 2017 - 06:54 AM, said:

I'm going a bit Sixth here I know, but here me out.

You went too far there..

If PGI wanted switchable ammo, they would make it so..

Don't tell me they can make new weapons and can't make weapons act differently.. If they wanted to, they would make weapon variants.. or new LBX versions, or simply code it into the engine that weapons behave differently depending on ammo type.

Here's how PGI already made old weapons feel new:

ATM = CLRM that behaves differently - less arc and variable damage.
Rotary AC = UAC that doesn't stop shooting until it jams.
Heavy / Light Machineguns - same machinegun, different damage
Heavy / Light / snubnose PPC - same weapon, different damage.
MRM - many SRMs fired simultaneously, with better range and different damage.
IS ER lasers / UACs - same as clan weapons, yet different sounds and damage

Since ALL of these examples are basically OLD weapons behaving in new ways, and to a layman seem like they just edited a spreadsheet, (let's face it, some coding must have been involved) you CAN'T tell me that if they wanted a LBX with different ammo giving it different properties, that they could not do it.

Anything can be done, if there's will to do it.

Prove me wrong!

[mouser42]

lbx is a boom stick and just a boom stick

Edited by mouser42, 24 November 2017 - 08:29 AM.

[Kotzi]

Just use AC. No spread. Want something like a shotgun use LBX. Sorry but i cant see the problem here.

EDIT: Ok, bad reading skills on my end, but still PGI wont be "able" to deliver switchable ammo so i guess thats all you can do about it.

Edited by Kotzi, 24 November 2017 - 07:23 AM.

[Jackal Noble]

Kotzi, on 24 November 2017 - 07:20 AM, said:

Just use AC. No spread. Want something like a shotgun use LBX. Sorry but i cant see the problem here.

EDIT: Ok, bad reading skills on my end, but still PGI wont be "able" to deliver switchable ammo so i guess thats all you can do about it.

Read a little further. The whole point of the thread was to try and come up with a dynamic solution, since switchable ammo is apparently not feasible or some such. Further the idea was to create a weapon that could have the current spread shot behavior or a tight almost solid slug spread that was not as good as an AC cannon, so as not to encroach on that weapon system.

Also, don't know how that turn lbxes into ppc like behavior, but I no likey.

[Khobai]

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The Clan ERPPC should be the most versatile (which it arguably already is), but it shouldn't be the most powerful across every job. You're asking for the latter.

it might be if its damage didnt vanish into thin air half the time.

[FLG 01]

Koniving, on 23 November 2017 - 02:32 PM, said:

In other words it fires as one projectile. When within a SET range of the intended target or A Target (take your pick, one implies it will detonate in X range of where the intended target was, the other won't detonate until in the X range of anyone), it releases the "LBX pellets" we know from MWO, which then explode on impact.

Such an airburst grenade would be nice, for sure.

At present, the pellets spread over distance making them utterly useless at range; pellets can even miss the Mech entirely even though it was a perfect shot. Making them spread consistently over the torso via airburst would allow using them at range without being pin-point.

[Y E O N N E]

FLG 01, on 24 November 2017 - 01:28 PM, said:

Such an airburst grenade would be nice, for sure.

At present, the pellets spread over distance making them utterly useless at range; pellets can even miss the Mech entirely even though it was a perfect shot. Making them spread consistently over the torso via airburst would allow using them at range without being pin-point.

Airburst just makes it do spread damage at all ranges rather than spread damage at a subset of ranges. Unless your burst pinpoints a single location, that is flatly inferior to what we have now.

[FLG 01]

It allows even spread at all ranges, which makes them more useful at range. They might lose a tiny fraction of extremely close power, i.e. when you go close enough to hit one single component with all your pellets (yeah, super realistic... ).

[Grus]

JackalBeast, on 23 November 2017 - 06:54 AM, said:

I'm going a bit Sixth here I know, but here me out.
What if because of how lock obviously changes the mechanics of missile spread and trajectory, etc. could be used to alter the spread behavior of Lbxes? That's to say, we know at this point of the apparent inability to make switchable ammo, I'm proposing a compromise of sorts; one which might just require a simple edit.
On lock with target, reduce lbx spread to 0(or 0.1 or 0.2) I would think a 0 spread would be fine, but in the case of making slight different than the AC10 of both sides.
Bear in mind when commenting this is to present a feasible or workable alternative to the current and imo incomplete lbx cannons that would also actually increase their performance. We can talk about reticules later lol.
Thoughts?

I'm also going to say no, due to I don't know how you would make a shotguns pellets guided.

[Jackal Noble]

Grus, on 24 November 2017 - 04:24 PM, said:

I'm also going to say no, due to I don't know how you would make a shotguns pellets guided.

It was a secondary alternative to get people talking about it. The lock on idea was just to facilitate an idea that upon lock, the spread gets reduced dramatically, not be guided at all. Like say you get a lock on your target and the spread of the Lbx gets reduced like 30-50%. Not guided at all. Now the annoying giant lock on reticule, that's another matter. To further flesh it out the cannon aspect would be toggle-able (turn it off and not worry about locking), for people that are so used to the lbx as is in game that don't like change lol.

Again, my ultimate preference (entirely separate concept) for the weapon would be a hold to choke mechanism, that greatly enhances the spread has slightly higher cool down than it's Autocannon brethren, with a slightly higher spread than the direct fire weapons as well so as not to be outright better, but have way better in game performance.

Edited by JackalBeast, 24 November 2017 - 04:47 PM.

[Khobai]

targeting computer should reduce spread on lbx

should increase its velocity and crit chance too

[Jackal Noble]

I mean who in this game with experience and shooting lbxes thinks that an lbx cannon is any good outside of say 300m? because they are junk. LBX2s are junk. LBX5s are paltry as all get out and superceded by nearly every 5 weapon in the game. LB10s are useable on some IS platforms, but not really on Clan side at all. You're more likely just to go for UAC10 or LB20, because of performance. I still find it odd to see players in pugland running C-ACs because, honestly? barf.

Khobai, on 24 November 2017 - 04:49 PM, said:

targeting computer should reduce spread on lbx

should increase its velocity and crit chance too

Hell, I'd settle for that. But remember... LBX good for crits!!

Edited by JackalBeast, 24 November 2017 - 04:52 PM.

[Khobai]

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LB10s are useable on some IS platforms, but not really on Clan side at all.

four LBX10 direwhale with four heavy medium lasers is pretty brutal

I consistently do over 1000 damage with that thing

although i rarely survive matches either, i pretty much always end up dying

#tooslowtosurvive

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Hell, I'd settle for that. But remember... LBX good for crits!!

well LBX is bad for critting equipment because it spreads its crit damage around all the different equipments in a location instead of doing all its crit damage to the same piece of equipment. But LBX is still good at killing internal structure.

You just hide for a little bit in your direwhale till everyones armor is breached, hope your team hasnt completely lost while you were hiding, and then you pop out in a fresh direwhale and start murdering everyone thats cored open lol. then you rack up like 5 kills and 1000 damage.

sharing armor is for stupids. khobai lets his teammates get crunched. then he steals all their kills.

Edited by Khobai, 24 November 2017 - 05:14 PM.

[Jun Watarase]

Funfact : LBX spread works on a different system than missile spread, LBX-20s actually have worse spread than SRMs at 200+m IIRC. The fact that they use a different spread formulae is not mentioned anywhere in game.

You are way better off using 2x SRM-6s with artemis + DHS than a single LBX-20. The former is actually more accurate.

[Jackal Noble]

Jun Watarase, on 24 November 2017 - 05:54 PM, said:

Funfact : LBX spread works on a different system than missile spread, LBX-20s actually have worse spread than SRMs at 200+m IIRC. The fact that they use a different spread formulae is not mentioned anywhere in game.

You are way better off using 2x SRM-6s with artemis + DHS than a single LBX-20. The former is actually more accurate.

Except for the Apex brawler Scorch build, because of no GH and raw front loaded firepower.

[Y E O N N E]

JackalBeast, on 24 November 2017 - 06:09 PM, said:

Except for the Apex brawler Scorch build, because of no GH and raw front loaded firepower.

I think he's talking about if you have to choose. Those that don't have to choose do well with both, clearly.

[LordNothing]

i remember when there were a lot of lb cooldown quirks everywhere and they werent half bad. give them all a baseline cooldown buff of about 10-15% of the equivalent autocannon.

Edited by LordNothing, 24 November 2017 - 06:44 PM.

[Ensaine]

Khobai, on 23 November 2017 - 12:40 PM, said:

No.

1) it makes standard autocannons obsolete. Right now standard ACs are for punching armor.

2) LBX have no ghost heat, and putting ghost heat on LBX would make firing cluster rounds pointless, since the only thing that makes cluster rounds somewhat viable is not having ghost heat.

3) it diminishes the whole purpose of LBX which is to be crit seeking/internal structure destroying weapon (and quite frankly LBX should be better at that then it currently is). LBX is not supposed to be good at punching through armor.

4) charge mechanic is !@#$ing awful. we need less of it not more.

^This ....ALL of it.