55 replies to this topic

[Zh0u]

Tesunie, on 04 January 2018 - 11:55 AM, said:

What is the time frame from where you are getting this advice? From most recent? Or posts laying around for some time?

Most people believe in firepower over survivability. There is a point to this, as if you can deal enough damage in a couple of hits, you can kill them before they kill you. The other half depends upon not being shot back as much as you shoot out (hide among other higher priority targets, such as the assaults, or attack from odd angles and flanks). An XL engine lets to do this better, at better speeds, at the cost of being easier to kill.

I personally don't recommend XLs on anything heavier than a light mech, depending upon the mech and the build. A Crab is iffy with XLs, if you know what you are doing. A Grasshopper (heavy mech) loves XLs because of how hard their side torsos are to reliably hit and destroy. On the flip side, a Wolfhound can work with an XL, but actually likes LFEs much more than an XL...

For Crabs, I strongly recommend anyone who wishes to be more of a linesmen (not flanking, sticking to the team, and wants to take a few hits) to take a LFE or STD engine. Due to it's CT and HD hard points, there is strong merit for a STD engine in a Crab, but sometimes you need some weight so a LFE is a reasonable choice. If you are relatively newish to the game, than avoid an XL on your Crab for the moment. As you get better, you may end up feeling more confident in your abilities and may revert back to the XL at a later time.

Honestly, I find there are rarely any "wrong answers" when it comes to mech construction. A lot of it depends upon what you are expecting out of the mech, what role you are intending to play and how much of a risk you are willing to take. I'm a low risk taker, so I don't like using XLs unless I either have/need to or I'm light enough that it isn't as much of a risk because of size and speed. Some people like to go high risk to try and reap the largest rewards, or know how to mitigate that risk by the way they play.

If you want to have more survivability, try to switch to a LFE instead of an XL. As long as you keep at least a 250 engine rating, it should work out well for a Crab. That's reasonably good speed, with ten built in heat sinks (which are better than externally added heat sinks).

Thanks, the builds are mainly from mechspec and Baradul's vid. But I totally get your advice and I'll look at the LFE instead. Any recommended build? Probably I should stick to ERLLs for the moment?

[CFC Conky]

Zh0u, on 04 January 2018 - 03:15 PM, said:

Thanks, the builds are mainly from mechspec and Baradul's vid. But I totally get your advice and I'll look at the LFE instead. Any recommended build? Probably I should stick to ERLLs for the moment?

I like LPL's myself, with a light 270 engine you can fit three, two in the right arm, one in the center torso.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[Tesunie]

Zh0u, on 04 January 2018 - 03:15 PM, said:

Thanks, the builds are mainly from mechspec and Baradul's vid. But I totally get your advice and I'll look at the LFE instead. Any recommended build? Probably I should stick to ERLLs for the moment?

I have several builds I find effective, but I have two that stand out from the rest I would recommend in this case.

The first, if you want ERLLs, is a triple ERLL (one in each arm and one in the CT), single (ER)ML in the head, 15 DHS total (10 in engine, 5 external I placed into the side torso), LFE 255, Endo and LFF. (Was once my STD engine triple ERLL build, with fewer heat sinks and FF as the compromise.) (This could possibly be altered to fit in double AMS on the 27 with the loss of the MLs and a heat sink. If desired. Maybe also a LFE 250...)

The second build I can think of is a bit on the toasty side until you snag the Cool Run skills from the skill tree (very important).
It's got two LLs (one in each arm), four ERMLs (one in each arm, and one in the CT and HD), a LFE 275 16 DHS (10 in engine, 5 external in the side torso and an extra placed into the engine slot), LFF and endo.
For this build, I have three weapon groups, one for the weapons on each arm respectively, and a third for all the torso mounted lasers. Lets me really control my heat, and with a cool shot it can do very well even in scouting matches.

If you want smurfy links to either of those builds, just ask. I'll piece them together.

(And yes, it sounds like the information you were reading was slightly out of date. Just an FYI.)


Overall, take what you like from the builds and alter them if you wish to make them more your own. Different skills and people like different play styles and mech loadouts. Not to mention, depending upon your tier, AMS can be a nice boon to your match score and C-bill earnings...

[Zh0u]

Tesunie, on 04 January 2018 - 04:12 PM, said:

I have several builds I find effective, but I have two that stand out from the rest I would recommend in this case.

The first, if you want ERLLs, is a triple ERLL (one in each arm and one in the CT), single (ER)ML in the head, 15 DHS total (10 in engine, 5 external I placed into the side torso), LFE 255, Endo and LFF. (Was once my STD engine triple ERLL build, with fewer heat sinks and FF as the compromise.) (This could possibly be altered to fit in double AMS on the 27 with the loss of the MLs and a heat sink. If desired. Maybe also a LFE 250...)

The second build I can think of is a bit on the toasty side until you snag the Cool Run skills from the skill tree (very important).
It's got two LLs (one in each arm), four ERMLs (one in each arm, and one in the CT and HD), a LFE 275 16 DHS (10 in engine, 5 external in the side torso and an extra placed into the engine slot), LFF and endo.
For this build, I have three weapon groups, one for the weapons on each arm respectively, and a third for all the torso mounted lasers. Lets me really control my heat, and with a cool shot it can do very well even in scouting matches.

If you want smurfy links to either of those builds, just ask. I'll piece them together.

(And yes, it sounds like the information you were reading was slightly out of date. Just an FYI.)


Overall, take what you like from the builds and alter them if you wish to make them more your own. Different skills and people like different play styles and mech loadouts. Not to mention, depending upon your tier, AMS can be a nice boon to your match score and C-bill earnings...

Great stuff! I'll try to tinker around based on what you said and I'll report back. So I assume you can't alpha with this build? And do you use arm lock? Or you hot key the toggle arm lock and use it when needed?

[Tesunie]

Zh0u, on 04 January 2018 - 05:02 PM, said:

Great stuff! I'll try to tinker around based on what you said and I'll report back. So I assume you can't alpha with this build? And do you use arm lock? Or you hot key the toggle arm lock and use it when needed?

Both of those builds can be alphaed with without any issues. Just, sustained combat really pushes the 27B (2 LLs and 4 ERMLs) a lot unless you start to stagger the lasers a bit (or use a cool shot). The ERLL version, as of my last testing, could sustain longer combat times, but eventually will overheat. Play them in their roles and they work fine. The 2 LL and 4 ERML build is a mid ranged build. Engage at mid range, but don't be afraid to get into a little brawl at times as it can handle it. The 3 ERLL build is a range build, and can work up close but likes having range as it's ally. Each build likes to poke and scoot, but each can manage other situations if it needs to. (I have tested the builds on Tourmaline, the hottest overall map in the game (besides some hot spots on other maps). They work even under those high heat conditions. Of course, I have max skill trees on them now...)

I personally always have arm lock turned off (as that was how the game played when I learned the game), which is also in part why I have arm and torso weapon groups. You can play them possibly better with Arm Lock turned off, but don't be afraid to toggle arm lock off as well, as those arms sometimes are needed to reach someplace up high or to provide faster reactions on weapon tracking over the torso mounts.

Some people like arm lock always on. Some (like myself) always have it off. It probably is best if you can run a balance between the two... (even though I don't...) With these builds, either can work, so it's up to how you like to play.

[Zh0u]

Tesunie, on 05 January 2018 - 12:52 AM, said:

Both of those builds can be alphaed with without any issues. Just, sustained combat really pushes the 27B (2 LLs and 4 ERMLs) a lot unless you start to stagger the lasers a bit (or use a cool shot). The ERLL version, as of my last testing, could sustain longer combat times, but eventually will overheat. Play them in their roles and they work fine. The 2 LL and 4 ERML build is a mid ranged build. Engage at mid range, but don't be afraid to get into a little brawl at times as it can handle it. The 3 ERLL build is a range build, and can work up close but likes having range as it's ally. Each build likes to poke and scoot, but each can manage other situations if it needs to. (I have tested the builds on Tourmaline, the hottest overall map in the game (besides some hot spots on other maps). They work even under those high heat conditions. Of course, I have max skill trees on them now...)

I personally always have arm lock turned off (as that was how the game played when I learned the game), which is also in part why I have arm and torso weapon groups. You can play them possibly better with Arm Lock turned off, but don't be afraid to toggle arm lock off as well, as those arms sometimes are needed to reach someplace up high or to provide faster reactions on weapon tracking over the torso mounts.

Some people like arm lock always on. Some (like myself) always have it off. It probably is best if you can run a balance between the two... (even though I don't...) With these builds, either can work, so it's up to how you like to play.

I think you meant with arm lock turn ON? I'll test it out.

[Tesunie]

Zh0u, on 05 January 2018 - 03:12 AM, said:

I think you meant with arm lock turn ON? I'll test it out.

Nope. I meant turned off. I always have my arms moving independent of the torso, for faster reaction speeds as well as to shoot down UAVs. Plus, that was how the game was when I join, as in arm lock was not in the game.

With my designs, if you have the weapons separated as described than you can shoot only the arm weapons or the torso weapons at a given time making arm lock not an important issue. However, arm lock can be helpful to land all the weapons onto the same component, so it can benefit from it also being turned on.

Arm lock is typically a personal preference. There are advantages and disadvantages to it being on or off within any given moment or playstyle. I leave mine turned off, but really it is best to toggle it on and off as the situation requires. A trick I should use... but don't...

[Zh0u]

Tesunie, on 05 January 2018 - 09:06 AM, said:

Nope. I meant turned off. I always have my arms moving independent of the torso, for faster reaction speeds as well as to shoot down UAVs. Plus, that was how the game was when I join, as in arm lock was not in the game.

With my designs, if you have the weapons separated as described than you can shoot only the arm weapons or the torso weapons at a given time making arm lock not an important issue. However, arm lock can be helpful to land all the weapons onto the same component, so it can benefit from it also being turned on.

Arm lock is typically a personal preference. There are advantages and disadvantages to it being on or off within any given moment or playstyle. I leave mine turned off, but really it is best to toggle it on and off as the situation requires. A trick I should use... but don't...

Ok, understood. I did hotkey my toggle arm lock so I can lock it anytime when needed. My default is also arm lock off.

I just switched to 3x ERLL, 1x ERML, 1xAMS and 1ton of AMS ammo. LFE250 though, and 15DHS (10 in Engine).

Update: I think I did something wrong. LFE250 is too low? I think I need a smurfy link. Sorry for the trouble.

Edited by Zh0u, 05 January 2018 - 12:15 PM.

[Tesunie]

Zh0u, on 05 January 2018 - 10:51 AM, said:

Update: I think I did something wrong. LFE250 is too low? I think I need a smurfy link. Sorry for the trouble.

A LFE 250 engine should be fine, as that's a land speed of 81 KPH without any skills involved.

I have this as a quick guide. Distribute front and back armor to your preference. This is build on the 27, which has access to two AMS systems. It sacrifices the ML for AMS. Of course, you can also always drop the AMS completely for a ML and additional DHS if desired.

If you are using the 27B, I found it worked well with a few more weapons on board. Hence, this build. It's a bit faster than the triple ERLL version, which helps it play more to mid ranged poke and scoot.


Anything I post, feel free to alter to fit better to you. These are just what I run and find useful. I'll also mention that armor placement is not exact on the Smurfy builds, as I figure people will adjust front and rear armor to their own liking.

[Tesunie]

As an additional concept, this might also be a viable idea. Two LLs, three ERMLs and dual AMS moving at almost 90 KPH from a 275 LFE.

The Crab has a lot of potential. It's all a matter of how you wish to run it. I get good performance from a mid ranged style of play with it. Some people love the 5 MPL builds (which I found too hot unskilled, and I didn't like how close ranged it was).

[Zh0u]

Tesunie, on 05 January 2018 - 04:11 PM, said:

A LFE 250 engine should be fine, as that's a land speed of 81 KPH without any skills involved.

I have this as a quick guide. Distribute front and back armor to your preference. This is build on the 27, which has access to two AMS systems. It sacrifices the ML for AMS. Of course, you can also always drop the AMS completely for a ML and additional DHS if desired.

If you are using the 27B, I found it worked well with a few more weapons on board. Hence, this build. It's a bit faster than the triple ERLL version, which helps it play more to mid ranged poke and scoot.


Anything I post, feel free to alter to fit better to you. These are just what I run and find useful. I'll also mention that armor placement is not exact on the Smurfy builds, as I figure people will adjust front and rear armor to their own liking.

Thanks man! I'll test it out more. AMS not really recommended on the 27B? I tried fitting 3xERLL, 1x ERML and max armors, and I have 0.5 ton left.

[Tesunie]

Zh0u, on 06 January 2018 - 02:32 PM, said:

Thanks man! I'll test it out more. AMS not really recommended on the 27B? I tried fitting 3xERLL, 1x ERML and max armors, and I have 0.5 ton left.

AMS needs at least 1 ton to be operational. 0.5 tons for the AMS and a minimum of 0.5 tons for ammo for it.

The 27B has more hard points (particularly in the arms). This makes it better suited to builds that utilize those energy slots. The 27 however has fewer hard points, with each arm only having a single slot. This makes it more viable having larger weapons on the arms, and as it has fewer slots overall it benefits from builds with fewer weapons.

Basically, you can do anything on the 27B that can be done on the 27. However, the 27B has more options that the chassis benefits more from. Plus, the 27 is the only Crab that can take dual AMS, which can be very helpful compared to a single AMS.

I will say, AMS can work well on nearly any mech. Just, some mechs can take dual AMS and that can really be a boon. Both to the team for support as well as to your match score and C-bill earnings (if the enemy brings any missiles). As the 27 can take two over the 27B which can only take a single unit... Yeah. I'm sure you can see where I'm going here.


Back a while ago, the 27 use to have quirks which improved weapon range (which benefited the ERLL build), and the 27B had heat generation quirks, which benefited closer in, hotter builds. I haven't looked too closely at their quirks now... but that's why I have the builds on specific chassis.

[Zh0u]

Tesunie, on 06 January 2018 - 06:11 PM, said:

AMS needs at least 1 ton to be operational. 0.5 tons for the AMS and a minimum of 0.5 tons for ammo for it.

The 27B has more hard points (particularly in the arms). This makes it better suited to builds that utilize those energy slots. The 27 however has fewer hard points, with each arm only having a single slot. This makes it more viable having larger weapons on the arms, and as it has fewer slots overall it benefits from builds with fewer weapons.

Basically, you can do anything on the 27B that can be done on the 27. However, the 27B has more options that the chassis benefits more from. Plus, the 27 is the only Crab that can take dual AMS, which can be very helpful compared to a single AMS.

I will say, AMS can work well on nearly any mech. Just, some mechs can take dual AMS and that can really be a boon. Both to the team for support as well as to your match score and C-bill earnings (if the enemy brings any missiles). As the 27 can take two over the 27B which can only take a single unit... Yeah. I'm sure you can see where I'm going here.


Back a while ago, the 27 use to have quirks which improved weapon range (which benefited the ERLL build), and the 27B had heat generation quirks, which benefited closer in, hotter builds. I haven't looked too closely at their quirks now... but that's why I have the builds on specific chassis.

The quirks are still the same. I figured I could benefit more by -5% heat gen, so I took the 27B over the 27.

In order to fit the AMS to the ERLL+ERML build I shave some armor off the legs. I'll test it more and report back. Thanks so much.

[CFC Conky]

Zh0u, on 07 January 2018 - 12:33 AM, said:

The quirks are still the same. I figured I could benefit more by -5% heat gen, so I took the 27B over the 27.

In order to fit the AMS to the ERLL+ERML build I shave some armor off the legs. I'll test it more and report back. Thanks so much.

Don’t take off too much armor from the legs, the best way to take out a CRB is by legging.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

[Zh0u]

Zh0u, on 07 January 2018 - 12:33 AM, said:

The quirks are still the same. I figured I could benefit more by -5% heat gen, so I took the 27B over the 27.

In order to fit the AMS to the ERLL+ERML build I shave some armor off the legs. I'll test it more and report back. Thanks so much.

Tested out the LL+4ERML build. It's fast and fun. Did better than the previous build, need more situation awareness. Thanks!

CFC Conky, on 08 January 2018 - 12:17 AM, said:

Don’t take off too much armor from the legs, the best way to take out a CRB is by legging.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

Yeah I realised that, now back to full armor.

[Zookeeper Dan]

Great advice in this thread. I hope you are liking the crab more now, it's ine if my favorite mechs! I prefer my Crabs tanky so I never play them with an XL engine.

I think one of the reasons an XL was recommended is because the Crab has a reputation as having a tanky torso so good players will automatically go for legs. Once you're legged you will die quickly no matter your engine. So it's better to have the firepower if you're going to get legged anyway. Needless to say, never skimp on leg armor!

I don't play the 27B much. I don't think I've rebuilt it with new tech. I think I still have three ERLL's and the biggest STD engine I could fit.

Now it looks like you could do a great 2LL 4 ERMl build with a Light 280, endo, and extra DHS's. You might be able to go 3 LL if you use a Light 250 and can manage the heat.