10 replies to this topic

[FunkyT]

Disclaimer: I am fully aware that these things have been proposed elsewhere before. I don't claim to have come up with everything mentioned in here myself. I've just not seen too much discussion about it lately and felt like this should be talked about.


Ever since the new Skilltree launched, MWO essentially went from having 2 free currencies (C-Bills + EXP) to having just one, namely C-Bills. EXP on it's own is worthless now, since you can't use it without mixing C-Bills in, to get Skillpoints. So there is actually no real reason to keep it around. It's just a blockade on your path to skill your mechs.

This subtracts from the fun of playing the game, in my opinion.
Imagine you just had a great match with a new mech. You get a good C-Bill payout and a big chunk of EXP aswell. But the good feeling almost vanishes the moment you open up the skilltree, use all that fresh EXP to buy skillpoints, and have the nice mission paycheck turn to dust aswell.
It greatly slows the actual grind for new mechs and equipment, or even halts it entirely, as long as you have mechs to skill. Which will likely be almost all the time, since this is how the game works.

I actually really like the new skilltree itself. It's not perfect, but it opens up many gameplay possibilities that just weren't there before.
The only gripe I have with it, is the way the player interacts with it. It just doesn't feel rewarding to have your entire mission payout go into maybe 4 Nodes of 1-3% increases.
I would like to see this adressed at some point. Hopefully sooner, rather then later


Here's what I suggest:

Seperate C-Bills and EXP from another
This way you can still feasibly grind for new mechs and equipment, while improving your other unskilled mechs. You don't have to take the trade-off of doing either or.
A suggestion of how to do this:

Earn Skillpoints instead of EXP
Right now, we earn EXP seperately, which we then have to pay for to turn into C-Bills.
Instead, just have the players earn Skillpoints (SP) every match.

Keep the EXP display at the end of each match as it is now. But at the bottom of this window, add an "Experience Bar". This bar will fill gradualy fill up with the experience you gain every match, and each time it is entirely filled, you earn 1 SP for this mech.
The same can be done with G-EXP. Have a seperate XP-Bar that only fills up from G-EXP. Every time it's full, you earn one General Skillpoint (GSP).

The rates at which you earn SP this way could just be the same as they are now: Every 800 EXP your bar is filled completely to award you with 1 SP.
Since GXP is earned at a much slower rate, maybe one GSP could be awarded every 400 GXP. I think this was the rate of GXP -> GSP at some point in the skilltrees developement, but I could be wrong.

Question: What happens, if I earned enough SP to unlock every skillnode?
At that point, SP don't work anymore in the current system, since reactivating skillnodes you already bought requires EXP.

The system would need to be changed for this suggestion. Preferably so that there is no respecc cost at all. That once you earned enough SP to unlock every node, you can freely switch your build around at will.
This is of course only a suggestion. Other ideas are welcome.

Furthermore, if you reach the limit of possible Skillpoints to earn with any given mech, the EXP your earn with it could be converted into GSP, scaled down to the appropriate rate. This way, playing a completely skilled mech would reward you with no EXP / SP anymore, but would earn you GXP / GSP at a higher rate to use on other mechs.



On a different note, I think the skilltree progression could be slightly adjusted, to further reduce player frustration. For example:

Have the aforementioned EXP-Bar fill faster on a mech without Skillpoints
If you get a fresh mech, the EXP required to fill the bar could be reduced for a period.
A simple example would be:

• 50% Reduction in EXP required per SP, until the mech reaches 10 or 15 total skillpoints
  
• 25% Reduction in EXP required per SP, until the mech reaches 20 or 30 total skillpoints

This could of course be adjusted, it just serves as an example.


That way, players would progress new mechs faster and could build up a base of necessary Skills / Quirks within a few matches. This should overall make the skill progression smoother and less frustrating.


What do all of you think about this?
Of course the numbers are all up for debate and are just placeholders to help explain the general idea.
Do you have suggestions to improve or expand this concept?
Lettuce discuss.

Edited by FunkyT, 27 November 2017 - 02:14 AM.

[Kotzi]

Exchange to GXP with MC´s. Working as intendet. I dont think that pgi is willing to cut their possible revenue.

Edited by Kotzi, 27 November 2017 - 02:38 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

Kotzi, on 27 November 2017 - 02:38 AM, said:

Exchange to GXP with MC´s. Working as intendet. I dont think that pgi is willing to cut their possible revenue.

They already do that by handing MC out like candy, handing Mech Bays out like candy, handing colors out like candy, including Premium Time in 'Mech Packs, and even by offering the 'Mechs themselves for direct sale.

The only value MC has, really, is buying Hero 'Mechs in the store.

IMHO, if they wanted to make me buy MC they'd let me use it to directly convert GXP into GSP.

[Muujig612]

FunkyT, on 27 November 2017 - 02:12 AM, said:

Ever since the new Skilltree launched, MWO essentially went from having 2 free currencies (C-Bills + EXP) to having just one, namely C-Bills. EXP on it's own is worthless now, since you can't use it without mixing C-Bills in, to get Skillpoints. So there is actually no real reason to keep it around. It's just a blockade on your path to skill your mechs.

XP is still used by itself when re-skilling up the nodes you unlocked. I think.

[Paigan]

FunkyT, on 27 November 2017 - 02:12 AM, said:

[...]
Ever since the new Skilltree launched, MWO essentially went from having 2 free currencies (C-Bills + EXP) to having just one, namely C-Bills. EXP on it's own is worthless now, since you can't use it without mixing C-Bills in, to get Skillpoints. So there is actually no real reason to keep it around. It's just a blockade on your path to skill your mechs.
[...]

I was inclined to agree, but then I thought:
In any kind of game with an economical aspect, there is usually more than one resource type.
Take Warcraft, for example.
There's gold and there's lumber.
You can buy units with gold, but gold alone only gets you so far. If you want to have more complex stuff, you have to use gold AND lumber.

It's very similar for MWO:
Two resources: "money" and "time".
XP represent time.
It's not enough to just have C-Bills, you also have to accumulate "time" (XP). There are ways to exchange/compensate, but they are costly.

So no, XP are not "worthless" (I guess what you mean is "redundant"), it is a second resource that is required for some advanced progressing aspects of the game. Just like gold and lumber.

[Asym]

I applaud your efforts!

It will never happen. PGI has a business model and cash flow is the bottom line. YES, there are people who spend insane amounts of real money for MC !!!

The new skill tree was a business decision, not a gameplay decision first and foremost...

Man, good ideas but until players stop spending real money for MC, well, we are a not going to see anything we really want: MWO is an exclusive, super small niche market with a stabilized cash flow......

[JC Daxion]

FunkyT, on 27 November 2017 - 02:12 AM, said:

It greatly slows the actual grind for new mechs and equipment, or even halts it entirely, as long as you have mechs to skill. Which will likely be almost all the time, since this is how the game works.

Well seeing that i no longer have to shell out an extra 20-30-40m extra just to level a single mech.. I find it far better. It doesn't bother me in the least.. I think i've saved about 300m on mechs that i did not need to purchase, so really i'm way ahead of the game.

[JC Daxion]

Yeonne Greene, on 27 November 2017 - 02:44 AM, said:

IMHO, if they wanted to make me buy MC they'd let me use it to directly convert GXP into GSP.

Yes,, I think this should be an added option for sure. GXP still helps if you need/want to reskill something. I've run into that issue a few times changing node running out of XP on lesser played mechs. But a strait up XP to GSP conversion is something that i think could work and many folks would use. And while GXP and XP are different, they could do both.. taking a mech with tons of banked XP and going strait to GSP i think would be a worth while addition to their marketing plan, and ease of use for players.

[FunkyT]

Paigan, on 27 November 2017 - 05:46 AM, said:

I was inclined to agree, but then I thought:
In any kind of game with an economical aspect, there is usually more than one resource type.
Take Warcraft, for example.
There's gold and there's lumber.
You can buy units with gold, but gold alone only gets you so far. If you want to have more complex stuff, you have to use gold AND lumber.

It's very similar for MWO:
Two resources: "money" and "time".
XP represent time.
It's not enough to just have C-Bills, you also have to accumulate "time" (XP). There are ways to exchange/compensate, but they are costly.

So no, XP are not "worthless" (I guess what you mean is "redundant"), it is a second resource that is required for some advanced progressing aspects of the game. Just like gold and lumber.

True, "redundant" would have been the better word there.

And I see your argument for mixing different currencies. The problem about the way it's done in MWO is that C-Bills are used for just about everything, while EXP has only this one use.

I like the idea of investing playtime into your mech to make it better, much like it was done before the skilltree, but the way it is now makes matches feel like chores at times, not like a game you play to enjoy. And that's a surefire sign for me that something should change.

[Roughneck45]

Not that I don't like your idea, but I'd like to point out that exp is more useful in the new system than the old.

The old one, you finished the page, and that was it, it accumulated forever until you paid to convert it to GXP.

The new one, you use exp to respec. The c-bill cost is one time to unlock the node, then its xp only to swap it in and out.

[FupDup]

Kotzi, on 27 November 2017 - 02:38 AM, said:

Exchange to GXP with MC´s. Working as intendet. I dont think that pgi is willing to cut their possible revenue.

GXP is even more worthless though, at least for people like me who like to go through the long mech grinding process (unlock skill tree gradually) instead of instant gratification.