184 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

12-1 doesn't mean a stomp. A stomp happens when you just easily crush the other team. Very close matches can end 12 - 1.

However the current system is more prone to stomps because it pushes everyone toward T1, so you have lurm spuds dropping with deadeye Deathstrike jockeys and it counts them the same.

The advantage of an Elo system that ranks players, chassis and modifies for loadout would be better at splitting available players between teams in a balanced manner.

Combine that with 8v8, which drops matchmaker load to balance by 33% and you've got a much better average match quality.

[Asym]

Xavori, on 29 November 2017 - 02:17 PM, said:

How would making matches more even, and hence more enjoyable, interfere with PGI's cash flow? Wouldn't it work the other way around that if the game was more fun, more people would play, and hence would spend more money on it?

I know that every time I go through a day without a good match because everything is either stomp or get stomped, I don't log on as much the next few days. And I already disappeared for a year once because the game got boring. I only came back, and am sticking around as long as I have this time because a friend of mine had found a unit, introduced me, and I'm having fun dropping with them which makes up for the iffy level of fun I have with my solo drops.

Selling mechs to die hard players is a pretty secure bet for PGI. It doens't matter to players who simply buy everything. I hear it every night on my team and other teams I've dropped with. It doesn't matter because there are large group of players who do not want any change.... They enjoy where they are within the existing gameplay and MM system.... They enjoy mindless stomps because they are doing the stomping. They absolutely must out-number those of us that want change !!!! Logically, otherwise, PGI would take the time and change to suit our needs....we are the minority. I have no data to support this theory. Just intuition, a nagging suspicion....

Look, I'm with you: I want change. I want exciting faction warfare that has a purpose. I'm just about done with constant stomps; constant long waits to play in totally one-sided FP; and, ghost drops because there aren't any players left... I want just like every other player that wants "what was" and "could be again."

[Khobai]

Quote

Look, I'm with you: I want change. I want exciting faction warfare that has a purpose. I'm just about done with constant stomps; constant long waits to play in totally one-sided FP; and, ghost drops because there aren't any players left... I want just like every other player that wants "what was" and "could be again."

PGI tried to give us seperate buckets for faction play to prevent stomps

all the units cried because their wait times were longer because they had to wait for other groups for an even match instead of just stomping pugs

so it lasted about one day before PGI rolled it back and let them stomp pugs again

those people have always held the game back. they contribute nothing positive to the game. stomping pugs and manipulating a broken system to pad their stats makes them feel like theyre elite players.

then you have comp players that are pushing the game in stupid *** directions like comp play and solaris because russ is deluded into thinking MWO is going to be the next huge esport. but the game just isnt very entertaining to spectate either because of the whole snowballing aspect of the game. The first team that falls behind virtually always loses so theres no reason to watch beyond that.

PGI needs to focus on going back to the basics and improving the things MWO does well. Instead of trying to expand into areas it doesnt do well like 1v1. 1v1 matches in MWO are pathetic. they last like 30 seconds. nobody wants to play that.

Edited by Khobai, 29 November 2017 - 05:27 PM.

[Nightbird]

What is true skill

[Escef]

Nightbird, on 29 November 2017 - 05:19 PM, said:

What is true skill

What is best in life?

[MischiefSC]

Khobai, on 29 November 2017 - 05:16 PM, said:

PGI tried to give us seperate buckets for faction play to prevent stomps

all the units cried because their wait times were longer because they had to wait for other groups for an even match instead of just stomping pugs

so it lasted about one day before PGI rolled it back

those people have always held the game back. they contribute nothing positive to the game. stomping pugs and padding their stats makes them feel like theyre elite players.

they you have comp players that are pushing the game in stupid *** directions like comp play and solaris because russ is deluded into thinking MWO is going to be the next starcraft 2 for esports.

PGI needs to focus on going back to the basics and improving the things MWO does well. Instead of trying to expand into areas it doesnt do well like 1v1. 1v1 matches in MWO are pathetic. they last like 30 seconds. nobody wants to play that.

No. Absolutely fase. We couldn't tell the difference in regular queue, other than that the pugs seemed generally better as it was tagged unit members pugging.

The problem was that only one solo queue match was kicking off every 2 hours or so.

[Wintersdark]

Mystere, on 29 November 2017 - 04:03 PM, said:

The people asking for Elo back are not the same people who asked for it to be removed. The same holds for random maps, and 12 vs 12.

Moving away from Elo to PSR was a mistake.
Removing random map selection in favor of map voting was a mistake.
Ditching 12 vs. 12 and going back to 8 vs. 8 will be a gigantic mistake, a regression, an admission of just giving up.

You had me till the last

12v12 has never been a good change. In theory it's awesome, in practice it's just not. It's not about "giving up"; it's that in all these years quickplay 12v12 has never worked out well, for all the reasons that detractors warned when it was first introduced.

There comes a point where you need to accept that something you wanted to do is simply not going to work, and to continue tilting at windmills isn't going to be productive. It's great for quasi-respawn Faction Play, but much less so for quickplay.

[Khobai]

Quote

The problem was that only one solo queue match was kicking off every 2 hours or so.

nah it wasnt that bad. the wait time was 10 minutes at worst.

and it was worth it to not get stomped by groups.

[MischiefSC]

Khobai, on 29 November 2017 - 05:30 PM, said:

nah it wasnt that bad. the wait time was 10 minutes at worst.

and it was worth it to not get stomped by groups.

You know what's cool?

The internet remembers, so people who actually want to know what they're talking about can go look it up because human memory is incredibly unreliable.

Here's the actual post from PGI about it.

https://mwomercs.com...ost__p__5157274

[LordNothing]

get rid of bubble up. people will have better games if they are matched with people of their equivalent skill than you would if you bloat everyone's ego by having them be t1 if they played enough games.

[Khobai]

MischiefSC, on 29 November 2017 - 05:57 PM, said:

You know what's cool?

The internet remembers, so people who actually want to know what they're talking about can go look it up because human memory is incredibly unreliable.

Here's the actual post from PGI about it.

https://mwomercs.com...ost__p__5157274

like I said the longer wait time was worth it to not have stomps

stomps make faction play unenjoyable

[Sjorpha]

Khobai, on 29 November 2017 - 06:14 PM, said:

like I said the longer wait time was worth it to not have stomps

stomps make faction play unenjoyable

You never had that, the solo queue never really worked outside a few hours during a couple days before it died completely.

Your above claim that "the units cried" is also completely false. There was absolutely no problems in the unit queue, actually it improved. The queues was merged back together for one reason only, and that was because the solo queue didn't work, at all, as in: there was no matches in it.

The units would probably have been happy to leave the queues split since it gave us improved pugs, meaning the "solo queue" would simply be empty and Faction Play would in practice be for unit members only.

You can't just make stuff up, there is documentation of what happened.

Edited by Sjorpha, 29 November 2017 - 06:34 PM.

[Mystere]

Khobai, on 29 November 2017 - 05:16 PM, said:

PGI tried to give us seperate buckets for faction play to prevent stomps

all the units cried because their wait times were longer because they had to wait for other groups for an even match instead of just stomping pugs

so it lasted about one day before PGI rolled it back and let them stomp pugs again

You are remembering things wrong. The alternative is unspeakable.

MischiefSC, on 29 November 2017 - 05:57 PM, said:

You know what's cool?

The internet remembers, so people who actually want to know what they're talking about can go look it up because human memory is incredibly unreliable.

Here's the actual post from PGI about it.

https://mwomercs.com...ost__p__5157274

Good catch.

Sjorpha, on 29 November 2017 - 06:28 PM, said:

You never had that, the solo queue never really worked outside a few hours during a couple days before it died completely.

Your above claim that "the units cried" is also completely false. There was absolutely no problems in the unit queue, actually it improved. The queues was merged back together for one reason only, and that was because the solo queue didn't work, at all, as in: there was no matches in it.

The units would probably have been happy to leave the queues split since it gave us improved pugs, meaning the "solo queue" would simply be empty and Faction Play would in practice be for unit members only.

You can't just make stuff up, there is documentation of what happened.

Let us also not forget that many players created one-person units specifically to avoid the solo-only queue.

Edited by Mystere, 29 November 2017 - 06:34 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Khobai, on 29 November 2017 - 06:14 PM, said:

like I said the longer wait time was worth it to not have stomps

stomps make faction play unenjoyable

Stomps happen with units.

And Quickplay. If you had respawns in QP you'd have a lot if spawn camping too.

Also per PGI (read a few pages in to the link) it was only a couple matches per hour.

[Mcgral18]

I'd settle for "Not everyone becomes Tier 1" as long as they shoot robots


Set a cap for each Tier
If you fall in the top 20% percentile of overall arbitrary scoring method, congratulations, you're Tier 1

If you stop playing, and someone surpasses your score? Too bad, you become Tier 2, he becomes Tier 1


Zero sum
Anti-Potato

Make it so

[Sjorpha]

Mcgral18, on 29 November 2017 - 07:00 PM, said:

Zero sum
Anti-Potato

Make it so

Oh god yes.

[UnofficialOperator]

Mcgral18, on 29 November 2017 - 07:00 PM, said:

[color=inherit]Zero sum[/color]
Anti-Potato

Make it so

I just came.

[Wintersdark]

Mcgral18, on 29 November 2017 - 07:00 PM, said:

I'd settle for "Not everyone becomes Tier 1" as long as they shoot robots


Set a cap for each Tier
If you fall in the top 20% percentile of overall arbitrary scoring method, congratulations, you're Tier 1

If you stop playing, and someone surpasses your score? Too bad, you become Tier 2, he becomes Tier 1


Zero sum
Anti-Potato

Make it so

While I'm with you here, there are a lot of very important details that matter.

Do scores decay? Which players are counted? I haven't played in months, but say I was in the top 20%, am I still? This matters a great deal, or you have situations where players leave the game and basically lock out slots. Due to bell curve skill levels, they'd be predominantly in the middle ranks when they left the game, leaving fewer (say) T3 "slots".

The problem with these things is that guys always come out with "you just do this!" And wash their hands of it, because clearly PGI is just dumb for not doing that, but things are always more complicated.

Zero sum is perfect with a fixed pool of players, but is very problematic when players come and go... Particularly when players enter the system at one point (typically the bottom) and leave after getting higher.

[Bogus]

MischiefSC, on 29 November 2017 - 10:22 AM, said:

The ideal option would be an Elo score for each player averaged with an Elo score for each mech and a modifier for loadout. So player A may be good and in a laservomit MAD IIC he's worth value X, but in a 2 flamer Spider he's worth far less.

That would give the most accurate results based on what's available.

I was gonna stick to replying to this thread with a snarky comment about how this all goes back to game mechanics, but I really like your approach here. Aside from the issue at hand, it would also address the IMO bigger issue that higher tiers increasingly punish players who choose not to bring a meta lord. This is a huge contributing factor to stale gameplay and player frustration.

[Wintersdark]

To be clear though, McGral, I'm not attacking you here and I do agree. It's just a lot more complicated than that.