111 replies to this topic

[Pariah Devalis]

ScrapIron Prime, on 03 December 2017 - 09:48 AM, said:

Well you COULD always join some kind of group... then you'd at least have a team of people who all want to coordinate to some extent. There's only so much solo dropping one can take.

Seen large groups in group queue that still could not manage to find a way to remove their head from a paper bag. Group queue does not solve inappropriately placed players in the tier spectrum. It just makes it easier for a poor player to have an artificially inflated tier since four idiots working together are more likely to win than a single idiot

tker 669, on 03 December 2017 - 10:47 AM, said:

Math, understanding things, and playing this game are not things this guy does very well....

Not sure if referencing me, or the person I quoted. Clarify, please.

[Xavori]

Pariah Devalis, on 03 December 2017 - 09:43 AM, said:

Hard to enjoy the game when a large portion of those you are paired up with or against can't hit an Awesome, if they were piloting it.

I would like to go on record that at no time while piloting an Awesome have I ever shot myself

[ANOM O MECH]

Pariah Devalis, on 03 December 2017 - 11:06 AM, said:

Seen large groups in group queue that still could not manage to find a way to remove their head from a paper bag. Group queue does not solve inappropriately placed players in the tier spectrum. It just makes it easier for a poor player to have an artificially inflated tier since four idiots working together are more likely to win than a single idiot



Not sure if referencing me, or the person I quoted. Clarify, please.

The person you quoted. He has been soundly destroyed with his random numbers are random theory. At this point I am not sure if he is just deluding himself unable to accept where he is going wrong in the game, or if he really just has no concept what-so-ever of statistics and numbers.

You? Well I actually think you are swell....but I am a weirdo.

[Xavori]

tker 669, on 03 December 2017 - 11:27 AM, said:

The person you quoted. He has been soundly destroyed with his random numbers are random theory. At this point I am not sure if he is just deluding himself unable to accept where he is going wrong in the game, or if he really just has no concept what-so-ever of statistics and numbers.

You? Well I actually think you are swell....but I am a weirdo.

Would you care to explain how I was soundly destroyed? I mean, you're not saying that random numbers aren't random, are you? Or is it my claim that in a proper matchmaker game, the W/L ration of everyone would ~1? Because both of those are absolutely, unarguably, true.

Or is it the part where an unknown range of non-normalized random numbers cannot have any statistical analysis done it that produces anything meaningful? (or do you even understand what I just said *smirk*) Cuz you wouldn't be alone in not getting that one...

[Tarl Cabot]

I will simply say that as long as PGI keeps the current PSR setup, it should be reset every quarter using the previous quarter stats. Those with not sufficient games would not have their tiers changed, and or have it degrade one tier.

[Khobai]

PSR should not reset

that defeats the whole purpose of PSR which is to keep new players and experienced player seperate

[Wolfways]

My favourite - "Oh but if I went 'round sayin' I was Emperor, just because some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away."

Also, I am one of those who does not belong in T1 and I am actively trying not to get there (see sig) to avoid playing against meta tryhards, but it's slowly getting there.
Honestly, I shouldn't have even gotten to T2!

[James Argent]

Mathematically, it's impossible for everyone in T1 matches to have a W/L greater than 1, because even in T1, somebody has to lose.

[ANOM O MECH]

James Argent, on 03 December 2017 - 02:52 PM, said:

Mathematically, it's impossible for everyone in T1 matches to have a W/L greater than 1, because even in T1, somebody has to lose.

That would be true if matches were not frequently mixed with up to two tiers difference, sometimes more.

[Tarl Cabot]

First, do understand this is about PGI not willing to make any major changes to the PSR itself...which then would likely require a reseeding anyhow...

Incoming newbies are already set for Tier 5. For those already in Tier 5, there is a reason they are still there. Ahh, is it the degrading Tier? Put a restriction that a player can only be degraded to Tier 4.

But reset reseeding the Tiers every quarter could give an incentive to actual play without fear of being pushed up since the PSR is more of an experience bar than anything else in its correct setup. There are different ways this could work out.

I am ready to lose my max out Tier 1 rating.

[Xavori]

James Argent, on 03 December 2017 - 02:52 PM, said:

Mathematically, it's impossible for everyone in T1 matches to have a W/L greater than 1, because even in T1, somebody has to lose.

If the matchmaker was making quality matches, everyone would have a W/L of ~1.

However, that's almost certainly an impossibility to pull off with only 5 tiers, and MWO's PSR's aren't even really tiers because it's so much easier to go up than down with barely mediocre play.

[James Argent]

tker 669, on 03 December 2017 - 03:07 PM, said:

That would be true if matches were not frequently mixed with up to two tiers difference, sometimes more.

Restricting tiers makes no difference to the equation. The full population of any tier restricted group you want to put on matches will collectively remain at exactly 1.0 W/L, exactly as if the tiers didn't exist.

[Pur]

Xavori, on 03 December 2017 - 03:25 PM, said:

If the matchmaker was making quality matches, everyone would have a W/L of ~1.

Parity does not equal quality.

[UnofficialOperator]

Juodas Varnas, on 03 December 2017 - 07:38 AM, said:

You talking about yourself?

Stats are publicly available. You can stay in T1 as punching bag.

[UnofficialOperator]

Xavori, on 03 December 2017 - 08:12 AM, said:

We need to get rid of tiers entirely...

And W/L is a meaningless stat in the current game, and in a well balanced matchmaking game, W/L for everyone is ~1 once the game gets their ranking to match their actual skill level.

W/L is useful for predicting how the match will go in the current game. I always have time to check stats prior to dropping. There are a few pilots I've noted to be always on the losing side. Its really ridiculous how accurate it is. Always happy when I see them on the opposite team.

Just observed someone using nightvision for no reason and friendly fire sweeping the whole team in the back constantly. Weekend warrior friendly fire is real.

They should use the existing stats to filter out everyone to their correct tier now. Those at T1 with a persistently neg WLR/below average match scores should go down in tier (weigh the scores with tonnage).

I'm really surprised that pilots with consistently bad scores can climb to t1 or even be matched in a T1 game unless the matchmaker is really loosened that much.

To deal with the low pop, they should just make it so the match begins with equal tonnages and equal ELO/BV on a per pilot basis. Could be a 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, 4v4 etc... not necessary to be 12 v 12.

[UnofficialOperator]

Tarogato, on 03 December 2017 - 10:55 AM, said:

They can play it all the want, as long as they are segregated and properly protected from the tryhard pool.

As it is, the matchmaking system is doing a pisspoor job at that. But I think part of the problem is that there just aren't enough good players to make one whole pool of good players, so the low skill victims are forced to seep in just to build matches.

Exactly this. Segregate those lower tiers. We don't need to see them running around like headless chickens.

Low pool is a problem. Should make it so MM drops you even at 2v2. 12v12 is just arbitrary.

Edited by UnofficialOperator, 03 December 2017 - 04:01 PM.

[C E Dwyer]

Mechrophilia, on 03 December 2017 - 10:31 AM, said:

IMO, our rank system should represent how that pilot performs in that mech.
So basically, "MWO Super Alt" would have a different rank in a HBR-F than in a DRG-1N.

Well before PSR we did have separate groups by weight.

The game devs decided they were not relevant.

i.e we've barely the skills to make P.S.R

We certainly haven't, to make it function with weight categories.

Yes it does function, just very badly.

To see some improvement all they need to do is kill the upward bias and wait a few months and it might start to work once a few of the T1's and T2's have dropped down a tier.

That 's not even been talked of in town halls means they can't have even considered it an option worth talking about.

Why I can only hazard a guess that if the 'bads' drop a tier people will soon start crying about wait times, and they'll have to open the gates earlier in the MM rendering such a move pointless.

Which does kind of point to a population that is so small, even minor changes, are going to make it worse at certain times to the point it doesn't work at all.

[Brain Cancer]

Khobai, on 03 December 2017 - 01:14 PM, said:

PSR should not reset

that defeats the whole purpose of PSR which is to keep new players and experienced player seperate

More that it should be based on the immediate prior season, not an exp bar. Take the players, divide rankings into fifths, there's your tier 1-5. Inactive/insufficient games played = automatic rank down from prior (I'd bottom it at T4).

[Shadowomega1]

If they created an system to rate pilots on their actual skill/skill per mech/weight class than go and balance those players between the two teams the system would be better for all.

Currently though I see massive issue with the MM is I keep seeing lately is 3 maybe 4 good pilots put onto a team of players that couldn't drive go carts right. Worse yet is these bad pilots constantly on matched up on the same team for 3 or 4 matches; even after sitting out or joining que for a few minutes.

[C E Dwyer]

CapperDeluxe, on 03 December 2017 - 07:50 AM, said:

Also you can't have negative ratios, only below or above the mystical 1.0 but always at or above 0.0

You can very much have negative win/loss and K/D and still progress providing the following happens.

You score high enough in losing matches to get an equals score, and you score well in winning games.

The season I progressed to T1 I was actually in that category, just I did a lot of damage, because P.S.R isn't about getting kills or winning games it's about match score, and to get a good match score you do damage.

The season I finished slightly outside the top 1K I spent two weeks never outside the top 200 and for a few days inside the top 100 by trolling damage in a Night Gyr LRM boat.

What caused my end result was me getting very bored with holding a button down and an event that needed me to use light mechs of which I'm very crap with.

PSR is nearly all about damage because its a personal score not match result