46 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

yes airstrikes are used more

but it doesnt change the fact that assault mechs should still be able to accelerate fast enough to get out of an artillery.

minimum acceleration for 100 tonners needs to be 12kph/s, about twice what it is now.

and that would help them get out of airstrikes better too

I dont think assaults being able to reasonably walk out of artillery/airstrikes in time like every other weight class is going to break the game.

Edited by Khobai, 08 December 2017 - 11:50 AM.

[KingCobra]

Khobai, on 08 December 2017 - 11:46 AM, said:

yes airstrikes are used more

but it doesnt change the fact that assault mechs should still be able to accelerate fast enough to get out of an artillery

minimum acceleration for 100 tonners needs to be 12kph/s, about twice what it is now.

and that would help them get out of airstrikes better too

I do agree with this totally as I said a lot of mechs are lethargic and most can accelerate forward fast enough to avoid the strikes IF you are not boxed in I have been so many times blocked by players from behind trying to use you as a meat shield.
Most MWO mechs have this slow ungodly reverse speed which is just terrible in previous mechwarrior IP games the reverse speed was x5 what MWO mechs have so it was easy to avoid damage and use your cover.

Just increasing the reverse speed on all MWO mechs would help this AIR/ARTY strike situation in MWO and make the game itself much funner by having more defense options as in avoiding strikes and incoming enemy fire better.

But I will say MWO without Air/Arty strikes would be a much better game as well as removing the Alpha strike mechanism as well.

[Asym]

I disagree. Nothing should be removed from MWO weapons wise because that starts the precedent for removeing anything that infuriates certain players....

Strikes aren't problematic and very few players coordinate strikes..... There are a few ex-military pilots that have and will continue to coordinate strikes and use them as they were intented...... The rest of MWO throws them around and more often than not, cause friendly damage... It's my opinion they should be reverted back where they started, the smoke should be smaller in scope and I believe that there should be a tonage and space cost to the consumables. Be that they are tied to Targeting Computers and the strike damage is proportional to the size of the TC or that TAGs must be used for precision tageting.....other wise, the strikes accuracy and concentrations aren't worth crap.....

Shouldn't be a "free" consumable and their effectiveness should be tied to an investment of space and c-bills/MC.

[Bishop Steiner]

Bud Crue, on 08 December 2017 - 09:58 AM, said:

This reminds me of another thread.
The one about how LRMs are really great.

Strikes are OP or a dominant factor, in the same way that LRMs are OP.
That is to say, they are not OP. Rather, they are a mechanism which when the right map, mode, and circumstances arise you can do some pretty amazing things with them; but the rest of the time not so much (and sometimes they even lead to disaster).

In other words: if you get lucky they are not a total waste, and may even be a factor, but more often that not they are just something that makes the enemy react a little.

I'm thinking Butthurt Online might be the best alternative....

[KingCobra]

Bishop Steiner, on 08 December 2017 - 12:44 PM, said:

I'm thinking Butthurt Online might be the best alternative....

Please do not respond to this fellow he seems to just want to bait people into getting banned and has nothing constructive to add to this topic.

[Darrious Quinn]

Opinions are like Buttholes... we all have one.

I feel that artys/strikes should really have their own skill tree.
WTFBBQSTFUWHY??

Simple. Why should any single.. no name mech-jock, have a personal red phone to an artillery battery or airfield that always seems to be in range or on standby?? Even back in the day as modules the idea was silly to me to have every lance member with access to a strike.

You couldn't limit the strike ability to lance or drop commanders in game because then you'd have to find a way to qualify some random pug-bro who like to have the pretty icon next to his name....

Also, unfortunately, I feel that further mucking with the current mechanic will only further to spiral the phenomenon down the crapper to the point where they become completely ineffective OR you're gimping the team by not having one of each strike equipped to continue the spam cycle.


I feel that an Arty/Airstrike skill tree would allow two very important changes to the game;

1) It would limit the number and access of strikes to those who want to sacrifice skill points into opening the tree up just to use it. Might it turn into another Node like the "+1 Additional Consumable" node we all buy without further investment, but its one more point we have to choose to sacrifice. It ultimately becomes a choice of if the use of a strike is worth that one point and you may have pilots that will stop using them depending on their mechs and builds.

2) It allows for deeper customization for the ability of strikes.
2a) early nodes could be based around gaining access to the strike ability - allowing the player to call strikes in the first place. As the nodes get more advanced, strike characteristics can be modified- strike radius, call cool down, quantity, range, or even damage could be tweaked just like anything else. Maybe the bottom node could be something really dumb like a Combined Strike of Arty and Airstrike at the same time... but you get the idea of where I'm going with this.

Is it likely that player behavior will push may people to spec into this Arty/Strike tree? Maybe. Its possible, but the beauty behind it is that at last there is a real, tangible cost and sacrifice for the use of the ability. If you want to play Strike Commander and call in and spam multiple strikes in a match, those 15 or so SP you'll have to spend that should be in armor, firepower or mobility will be missed.

[Mole]

Darrious Quinn, on 08 December 2017 - 01:15 PM, said:

Opinions are like Buttholes... we all have one.

I feel that artys/strikes should really have their own skill tree.
WTFBBQSTFUWHY??

Simple. Why should any single.. no name mech-jock, have a personal red phone to an artillery battery or airfield that always seems to be in range or on standby?? Even back in the day as modules the idea was silly to me to have every lance member with access to a strike.

You couldn't limit the strike ability to lance or drop commanders in game because then you'd have to find a way to qualify some random pug-bro who like to have the pretty icon next to his name....

Also, unfortunately, I feel that further mucking with the current mechanic will only further to spiral the phenomenon down the crapper to the point where they become completely ineffective OR you're gimping the team by not having one of each strike equipped to continue the spam cycle.


I feel that an Arty/Airstrike skill tree would allow two very important changes to the game;

1) It would limit the number and access of strikes to those who want to sacrifice skill points into opening the tree up just to use it. Might it turn into another Node like the "+1 Additional Consumable" node we all buy without further investment, but its one more point we have to choose to sacrifice. It ultimately becomes a choice of if the use of a strike is worth that one point and you may have pilots that will stop using them depending on their mechs and builds.

2) It allows for deeper customization for the ability of strikes.
2a) early nodes could be based around gaining access to the strike ability - allowing the player to call strikes in the first place. As the nodes get more advanced, strike characteristics can be modified- strike radius, call cool down, quantity, range, or even damage could be tweaked just like anything else. Maybe the bottom node could be something really dumb like a Combined Strike of Arty and Airstrike at the same time... but you get the idea of where I'm going with this.

Is it likely that player behavior will push may people to spec into this Arty/Strike tree? Maybe. Its possible, but the beauty behind it is that at last there is a real, tangible cost and sacrifice for the use of the ability. If you want to play Strike Commander and call in and spam multiple strikes in a match, those 15 or so SP you'll have to spend that should be in armor, firepower or mobility will be missed.

Another thing they could do is make it to where your 'mech is only able to equip artillery and airstrikes if you have built a command console into your 'mech. If you really want to sling strikes around, it's gonna cost you one slot and three tons. I know it's not in lore for Clans to have command consoles, but they could still do it.

[Bishop Steiner]

KingCobra, on 08 December 2017 - 01:11 PM, said:

Please do not respond to this fellow he seems to just want to bait people into getting banned and has nothing constructive to add to this topic.

Oddly the same could be said about the OP....... (as per usual)

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 08 December 2017 - 01:27 PM.

[Mole]

KingCobra, on 08 December 2017 - 01:11 PM, said:

Please do not respond to this fellow he seems to just want to bait people into getting banned and has nothing constructive to add to this topic.

Who? Bud Crue or Bishop? I mean, either way you couldn't be any more wrong but I am curious as to which individual you honestly believe is just trying to bait people into getting banned.

[KingCobra]

I do like to see all the constructive posts about this topic and belive if PGI does not remove the AIR/ARTY STRIKES maybe they will have a look at this situation and make a few changes to stop the ARTY/AIR STRIKE spam.

Some of the interesting ideas like skill tree to use air/arty strikes or command console in the mech are great ideas and also promotes more balanced gameplay I know PGI has a hard time removing features from the game if they feel they should be included but maybe they can modify the game to balance Arty/AIR Strikes.

Great ideas Below if PGI does not remove Arty and Air Strikes

#1 more mech reverse speed and agility
#2 skill tree requirements to use arty/air strikes
#3 to use arty/airstrikes requires a command console
# Arty/Airstrike tied to Targeting Computers

Please feel free to say what you think good or bad but please try to stay on topic and be constructive.

Edited by KingCobra, 08 December 2017 - 03:57 PM.

[Bombast]

KingCobra, on 08 December 2017 - 01:11 PM, said:

Please do not respond to this fellow he seems to just want to bait people into getting banned and has nothing constructive to add to this topic.

The only person Bishop ever baits into bans is himself.

[Asym]

Mole, on 08 December 2017 - 01:23 PM, said:

Another thing they could do is make it to where your 'mech is only able to equip artillery and airstrikes if you have built a command console into your 'mech. If you really want to sling strikes around, it's gonna cost you one slot and three tons. I know it's not in lore for Clans to have command consoles, but they could still do it.

I suggested earlier that strikes be tied to targerting computers: the better the TC the better the Strike results... That way, there is a weight and slotage cost for strikes....

[Damnedtroll]

If your mech doesn't accelerate enough to evade a strike, just don't stop moving !

Strikes are camper wake-up alarms, and it doesn't even works...

[KingCobra]

Damnedtroll, on 08 December 2017 - 02:26 PM, said:

If your mech doesn't accelerate enough to evade a strike, just don't stop moving !

Strikes are camper wake-up alarms, and it doesn't even works...

Funny you should say that and it seems logical until you round a corner to avoid the Arty/Air strike and get focused fired to dust by 7-12 players and obviously that is what the user or the Arty/Airstrike intended you to do.

Edited by KingCobra, 08 December 2017 - 02:40 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Bombast, on 08 December 2017 - 02:16 PM, said:

The only person Bishop ever baits into bans is himself.

there may be some truth to that.....

[Yosharian]

I predict this thread is going places.

I love how everyone playing in 6-12 man groups with super coordinated team comms that warn their teammates the second an arty smoke pops up are saying LOL JUST GET SOME AWARENESS.

In solo Quick Play things are a little different. Anyone that says you just 'need to be aware' needs to wake up. Most good artillery smokes are invisible to the player they're designed to hit.

[KingCobra]

Asym, on 08 December 2017 - 02:25 PM, said:

I suggested earlier that strikes be tied to targerting computers: the better the TC the better the Strike results... That way, there is a weight and slotage cost for strikes....

Sorry bro missed it in the # suggestions (fixed) great idea also.

[Damnedtroll]

For me the best would be good that strike would be only from Tag carrying battlemech and the strike fall were it point. Like the charge up time or the gauss but 10sec.

It would be efficient and give usefulness to light scout mech. It would be a lot worse for unaware player but not a strike fest either.

[Snazzy Dragon]

Arty strikes are pitiful unless you drop it on a bunch of clueless pugs busy scratching each other's backs and humping each other's legs.

Air strikes, on the other hand...

[Bishop Steiner]

Snazzy Dragon, on 08 December 2017 - 05:02 PM, said:

Arty strikes are pitiful unless you drop it on a bunch of clueless pugs busy scratching each other's backs and humping each other's legs.

Air strikes, on the other hand...

are only slightly less pitiful. *SMH*