119 replies to this topic

[sub2000]

Lily from animove, on 11 December 2017 - 08:03 AM, said:

yes then pls bring this video, it would be the required evidence.

if you mean
[color=#B27204]prtNspz[/color]


Than this account is a confirmed t1 account of him.

Just few minutes of searching....
https://clips.twitch...atteSoonerLater
here is, i was in his squad, EXE-prime (was focused down in the beginning of the game), proton used us as a meat shield and in the late game just wrecked everybody.
You can see mine name right there (upper left corner).

Edited by sub2000, 11 December 2017 - 08:18 AM.

[Davegt27]

Mole, on 11 December 2017 - 08:11 AM, said:

I'm pretty sure he removed the names specifically to avoid name & shaming anyone. Good grief.

he is applying the same tactics that killed CW
first villainize a group in the game based on the opinions of a select few

the results will be the same regardless if he puts there names on there or not

[Lily from animove]

sub2000, on 11 December 2017 - 08:17 AM, said:

Just few minutes of searching....
https://clips.twitch...atteSoonerLater
here is, i was in his squad, EXE-prime (was focused down in the beginning of the game), proton used us as a meat shield and in the late game just wrecked everybody.
You can see mine name right there (upper left corner).

Thanks fopr the video.

I am still a bit confused 2 games before yours he played in a group, he left that early and used the rejoin. Then the match after, he left early and pressed rejoin, but this ended him up searching a new match which ended up with you.

That brings me up to the question if the "rejoin" might be broken and trigger opponents outside the tier restrictions. He at this point was even within a group (even if alone). Who knows what PGI's algorythm does with such things.

Edited by Lily from animove, 11 December 2017 - 08:56 AM.

[Mole]

Davegt27, on 11 December 2017 - 08:41 AM, said:

he is applying the same tactics that killed CW
first villainize a group in the game based on the opinions of a select few

the results will be the same regardless if he puts there names on there or not

How exactly is this a tactic that killed CW and what sort of 'results' do you expect out of it? Because I feel like CW died because the IS keeps getting told "if you want to win, group up" while the clans can just PUG willy nilly and win all the time. This is evident every time there is a CW event, the clans always win. There is something wrong with the balance between factions in CW, and that is what killed it. Nobody wants to play IS because IS gets repeatedly stomped by clans and being told to group up or stop crying is not an acceptable solution when the other side does not need to do the same.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Mole, on 11 December 2017 - 09:30 AM, said:

How exactly is this a tactic that killed CW and what sort of 'results' do you expect out of it? Because I feel like CW died because the IS keeps getting told "if you want to win, group up" while the clans can just PUG willy nilly and win all the time. This is evident every time there is a CW event, the clans always win. There is something wrong with the balance between factions in CW, and that is what killed it. Nobody wants to play IS because IS gets repeatedly stomped by clans and being told to group up or stop crying is not an acceptable solution when the other side does not need to do the same.

Recent events show that Clan is winning during most of the event, but as soon as IS groups up on the last day they can just easily reverse the whole trend and bring it to a tie. The "if you want to win, group up" line still holds true. What's really making Clan pugs win more than IS pugs is just the level of customization available in IS mechs compared to Clan ones, bads can make even worse builds in IS mechs than they can with Clan ones.

[BIOHAZARD]

First, these statistics are completely useless. The metrics used by PGI make no sense whatsoever. K/D ratio? This is 12 players per team. In a stomp, there's no way you can get a kill. Not one against four, you won't. W/L ratio? Again, how's the win dependent on you, when you need to carry 6 potatoes? Etc.

The only metric that can possibly reflect player's skill is (KMDD + SOLO KILLS)/DEATH. Kills can be stolen by an opportunist cookie. But if you can work an enemy on your own start to finish, that's what I call skillset. Also contributing to teams victory should be counted. So, an objective completed ratio is what's needed: sum(first captures, tag kills, leg components destroyed, holding lock for other player's damage etc.)/Matches played.

Make a running avg of both and voila.

Second, as PGI pulls resources from MWO to MW5 this, and other, improvement discussions are useless also.

Edited by VooDoo Doll, 11 December 2017 - 10:02 AM.

[Brain Cancer]

Davegt27, on 11 December 2017 - 07:15 AM, said:

if your going to name and shame flipping do it right and put the names on there

The last time I posted an endscreen with names and called a .5 W/L and .4 K/D "horrible" (without naming which one it was) I got a 7 day ban from the forums.

You cannot put "bad" and any name whatsoever together in this forum and expect to keep posting.

VooDoo Doll, on 11 December 2017 - 09:42 AM, said:

The only metric that can possibly reflect player's skill is (KMDD + SOLO KILLS)/DEATH. Kills can be stolen by an opportunist cookie. But if you can work an enemy on your own start to finish, that's what I call skillset. Also contributing to teams victory should be counted. So, an objective completed ratio is what's needed: sum(first captures, tag kills, leg components destroyed, holding lock for other player's damage etc.)/Matches played.

Make a running avg of both and voila.

Second, as PGI pulls resources from MWO to MW5 this, and other, improvement discussions are useless also.

This. Seriously, we know all of the data is being tracked, especially for events. At the least, KMDD's should be on the leaderboards, and other data available to the player via their stats.

[Davegt27]

Mole, on 11 December 2017 - 09:30 AM, said:

How exactly is this a tactic that killed CW and what sort of 'results' do you expect out of it? Because I feel like CW died because the IS keeps getting told "if you want to win, group up" while the clans can just PUG willy nilly and win all the time. This is evident every time there is a CW event, the clans always win. There is something wrong with the balance between factions in CW, and that is what killed it. Nobody wants to play IS because IS gets repeatedly stomped by clans and being told to group up or stop crying is not an acceptable solution when the other side does not need to do the same.

CW is dying because they don't have enough players
surely you can see the whole git gud or get gone was at the core of this

its a catch 22,most teams don't want seal players but it takes time to get good
at the same time people are saying if your not doing 1500 dmg then don't drop in
CW
where did they get the 1500 dmg number at(or whatever dmg number you want to use)
simple it an opinion

just like this thread who decides what the cut off for tier 1 is?

Brain Cancer, on 11 December 2017 - 10:04 AM, said:

The last time I posted an endscreen with names and called a .5 W/L and .4 K/D "horrible" (without naming which one it was) I got a 7 day ban from the forums.

You cannot put "bad" and any name whatsoever together in this forum and expect to keep posting.



This. Seriously, we know all of the data is being tracked, especially for events. At the least, KMDD's should be on the leaderboards, and other data available to the player via their stats.

wow pretty hefty penalty
I also got moderated for telling people that the mods don't like necro'ing threads

still the OP is just being slick basically naming and shaming with out using names
and saying the Dev's should do something about some made up group
(which I think its a violation to demand the that the dev's do this or that)

for example say I don't like someone and I find out he is left handed
then I make up some scenario like all PC mice are right handed so we should ban all left
handed players

very slick

[Mole]

Davegt27, on 11 December 2017 - 10:44 AM, said:

CW is dying because they don't have enough players
surely you can see the whole git gud or get gone was at the core of this

its a catch 22,most teams don't want seal players but it takes time to get good
at the same time people are saying if your not doing 1500 dmg then don't drop in
CW
where did they get the 1500 dmg number at(or whatever dmg number you want to use)
simple it an opinion

just like this thread who decides what the cut off for tier 1 is?

I feel like if your average solo player could do just as well on IS side in CW as they could on Clan side then CW wouldn't be so abandoned. But as I said, nobody wants to play IS because unless you're with a group you're just going to get farmed all day. And I still, no matter what justification is used, believe that "join a unit or stop crying" is an unacceptable excuse. Nobody wants to be told "git gud or git gone" which is essentially what you're doing when you tell and IS CW player to join a unit or lose. This would be a different situation if the same were true for clans. If clan pugs just got farmed all day long as well, and it was the same for both sides, then telling people to group up or lose is fine. But that's not how it is. I can solo drop with any random group on Clan CW and win often enough to make me feel good. If I try to do the same on IS, I've just commited to 7 days of getting stomped by clans, be the enemy team a PUG or a unit. It shouldn't be this way, and I feel like if it weren't this way then CW would have a much larger playerbase. But nobody wants to play a game mode that is totally lopsided in one side's favor 90% of the time.

[Davegt27]

on another note I am able to identify the player that the OP is talking about

but I still don't know how he knows if the player is tier 1 or not
took about an hour to find him

why that player is being singled out is also a mystery

[Horseman]

UnofficialOperator, on 08 December 2017 - 04:53 PM, said:

Then there's this guy going full LRMs on a SNV!!!???, hides on polar just to LRM. After the inevitable loss, when called out on it, lies that he's always gotten way better scores and has way more matches than me when we've never met before.

If he's running LRMs on POLAR of all things, then he has every chance to carry his team - I'm talking soloing 1/4th of the enemy team by himself. And if he can't... he has no business lurming in that mech.

Edited by Horseman, 11 December 2017 - 03:09 PM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Davegt27, on 11 December 2017 - 12:12 PM, said:

on another note I am able to identify the player that the OP is talking about

but I still don't know how he knows if the player is tier 1 or not
took about an hour to find him

why that player is being singled out is also a mystery

Probably because he is an example of many.

I really don't see how posting someone's stats is name and shame without even posting their name when everyone's data is publicly available anyway.

[A Really Old Clan Dude]

The Lighthouse, on 08 December 2017 - 04:45 PM, said:

As I said in other thread, due to decrease of the population, PGI has probably stopped separating Tiers altogether. I think they initially allowed Tier 4 to join Tier 1 games, but after player outrage they restricted to Tier 1 and Tier 2 for higher tier matches, but then it seems they changed their minds again.

So we are back to old ways where all Tiers are playing together.

Well I can tell you that players are separated by tiers to at least some extent. I know this because I recently created an alt account to run pure IS only mechs, I was surprised to see some players I hadn't played for a long time again, as I progressed to tier 2 this week im back again playing now against some tier 1 familiar players in my time zone.

The main point for me was although Im playing this account for fun with some very substandard mechs I have managed to progress to T2 in a very short amount of time. The experience tier system is not the best way to get the berst players playing the best players and so forth. Maybe the solaris system will give a base of a new ranking system that can be imported into quickplay.

[Xmith]

Dakota1000, on 11 December 2017 - 12:23 PM, said:

Probably because he is an example of many.

I really don't see how posting someone's stats is name and shame without even posting their name when everyone's data is publicly available anyway.

People are being shamed by presence of the leaderboard. I will never shame anyone about their stats on the forums. But others have. People have been told their stats are not very good based on the leaderboard. They do not mention any names but a reply to a post referencing someone's stats is a form of name and shame IMO.

Edited by Xmith, 11 December 2017 - 01:58 PM.

[C E Dwyer]

OldOrgandonor, on 09 December 2017 - 09:08 AM, said:

You have stated this kind of thing before in another thread. I asked you in that thread to name your source for this theory and I got no response from you on it.

I ask you again here, name your source for this claim.

Because I'm seeing with my own MK I Eyeball, in my own match team rosters that this is definitely NOT correct.

Name.

Your.

Source.

(Please).

It's in either patch notes somewhere and there is a thread on these boards, it changed this summer, to T1 and T2 but we were to expect longer waits times as a result.

As I don't have the thread title i'm not spending hours searching through pages and pages, just to suspend your disbelief.

I don't play the game often enough to really care anymore one way or the other.

If you want to spend hours looking for it be my guest, but of course you won't and you'll just debunk it, because I won't in favour of your own pet theory

[blood4blood]

Quick comment on stats ...

I'm notably worse on my main account, I figure mostly because it's where I still level up mechs, try lots of builds, and play heavies and assaults even though I'm bad in them. Up until very recently all three accounts were Tier 3, so Tier had nothing to do with it. Also, see where it says I've got 600 games on this account? I have to assume that's seasonal only, because I've got over 3900 games on this account since they started keeping the "Current" stats, plus another 4100 or so in "Archived." FWIW, the K/D is accurate at 1.11 (comparing Jarl's List to Current), but the W/L is off (Current would put me at 1.03 W/L). So, stats? I have an old book from the 1950's somewhere around here called "How to Lie with Statistics." It's excellent reading, and I highly recommend it.

EDIT: ugh, table format all messed up...the essential info is that I'm 74% on my main, 88% and 89% on my alt accounts, the W/L is listed at .92 for my main and 1.06 and 1.07 for my alts, the K/D is 1.11 on my main, and 1.13 and 1.42 on my alts. In other words, there are big stat differences, but all are the same player (me).

EDIT #2: Since hitting Tier 2, purely anecdotally, my experience has been that teamwork across the board in the majority of games is worse than it was in Tier 3.

Edited by blood4blood, 11 December 2017 - 02:36 PM.

[Ruslan Savelyev]

As some may have watched or know about, there are 2 guys with names like PoopFeast420 who stream snipe and make new t5 accounts just to TK and disrupt. Has any t1 or t2 pilot come across one of the TK troll accounts in any game in the last 2-3+ months that they have been doing it? I have not seen it in any game or stream aside from t5 specific drops, and that means that t5s are definitely being segregated from t1/2.

If people will post complaints about a guy with 15,000 games and .8 w/l ruining their game, I'm thinking that dropping all night with a guy who back cores you in the LZ with a trial KDK would inspire some literature.

[C E Dwyer]

Lily from animove, on 11 December 2017 - 08:08 AM, said:

because we discussed here in the forum and gave enough feedback to PGI about their broken PSR and they already noticed and admitted that, why would we need further emails? Bringing these threads up is just about to make PGI know this issues gets more and more releveant as time goes by because even more lower skilled people enter T1 basically breaking the entire concept of their Tier system even more.

As Lily has mentioned it has been talked about at length, and gets more broken as more people regardless of skill level as more people reach tier levels above their skill bracket.

Most people in the community that expressed an opinion both here, twitter, and reddit said upward bias was very bad, and wouldn't work because if it.

These kind of threads have been happening before it even went live, because we saw how broken and what a false skill level it would give people.

P.G.I did there usual silent running with the odd poke of head over parapit, to tell us they knew what was best for the game and we lived on an island etc etc..

As more often than not, the community got it right, P.G.I got it wrong, and refuse to admit it so PSR remains broken.

It took two years just for P.G.I to tighten up the tier levels and how long the timer goes before the tier gates open, and the official post was written in away that suggested P.G.I didn't want to do even this, because it was going to increase wait times in non peak hours.

It was wait times and complaints about how long they were, that caused the gate times to be opened a lot faster and the three tier MM to be adopted, which is probably why P.G.I refuse to budge on the upward bias.

Upward bias though whatever the effects it has one wait times needs to go, maybe if enough people tweet Russ tey'll look at it again, who knows.

Are people prepared to wait five minutes for each game if it means losing by two less mechs ?

[Brain Cancer]

Quote

Has any t1 or t2 pilot come across one of the TK troll accounts in any game in the last 2-3+ months that they have been doing it? I have not seen it in any game or stream aside from t5 specific drops, and that means that t5s are definitely being segregated from t1/2.

Considering how negative a constant stream of TKing is on your match scores and hence PSR (because not only 0 match score, but you're working hard to lose), accounts like this start at T5 and don't go anywhere higher. Thus, the T1/T2 crowd is safe.

[C E Dwyer]

Fleeb the Mad, on 10 December 2017 - 11:04 PM, said:

Hyperbole aside, there's a misconception here that needs to be clarified. Competitive players will generally be in tier 1, but that isn't the bar for what tier 1 is measured by. The competitive crowd account for 1% (or less) of the player base and are so rare in the solo queue that creating a separate bucket in the matchmaker is honestly a waste of resources. You have to think of things in terms of the casual players, who are the crushing majority in every tier.

Tier 1 and tier 2 tend to be mostly filled with experienced super casual folks by virtue of raw numbers, even if they only account for 10% of the player base each. The way the system actually functions is less to create super balanced matches for the top skill bracket and more to isolate new and inexperienced people from the sharks. For a while. Given there's eventual upward motion nobody will stay there forever.

Let that sink in a sec. The system continually punts people with a lot of games under their belt out of the lower tiers. It could simply be the system is intended to work that way for the sake of the bulk of the player base, as opposed to tier 1 being some sort of bragging rights objective. Nobody arrives in tier 1 without being either good, or having played enough that they shouldn't be sheltered. Given how slow it is you can't even say these players are being thrown to the wolves. It's thousands of games of steadily more difficult opponents.

Competitive and ranked ladders exist for people who want bragging rights or prizes. The tier system isn't for either of those things. Think of it less as 'these people shouldn't be in tier 1' and more of 'there's no reason to go easy someone who's played 5000 games.'

I agree with most of what you say, there are players that spend, or spent a lot of time playing this game, and as you correctly point out, I am one of those that don't deserve to be sheltered.

You correct again in that comp players are in the very small minority, and the baulk of T1's are going to be those good, semi good that just don't want the hassel of comp play, and hours of team practice.

However what this P.S.R system doesn't recognise, because it's broken by design, is that a lot of players gaming ability levels out, and no matter how many hours a player puts into playing the game, they simply won't, or can't get any better.

This is because of the upward bias put into the system forces people above their skill level, because P.G.I say it's good and they will learn.

Which goes completely against human nature, because a high percentage of human beings are noobs by nature, the very worse of them end up featuring in editions of The Darwin's Awards.

In gaming there is no danger of this and they continue to stand still in the open and score low and end up playing with those that were newbies, but avoided becoming full Noob's because P.S.R was designed on a false idea.