119 replies to this topic

[UnofficialOperator]

Ruslan Savelyev, on 11 December 2017 - 02:34 PM, said:

As some may have watched or know about, there are 2 guys with names like PoopFeast420 who stream snipe and make new t5 accounts just to TK and disrupt. Has any t1 or t2 pilot come across one of the TK troll accounts in any game in the last 2-3+ months that they have been doing it? I have not seen it in any game or stream aside from t5 specific drops, and that means that t5s are definitely being segregated from t1/2.

If people will post complaints about a guy with 15,000 games and .8 w/l ruining their game, I'm thinking that dropping all night with a guy who back cores you in the LZ with a trial KDK would inspire some literature.

Never seen the guy, thank god.

After thinking, I believe those with 10k to 20k games with perpetually bad scores are probably T1 after over a year of grinding. That's why they get put into our current matches. So MM isn't at fault here.

My point is really that they shouldn't be in T1 at all.

PSR should be redone in a different way to prevent these people grinding up to T1.

[Brain Cancer]

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Never seen the guy, thank god.

You can't, he's a serial TKer and hence locked at the bottom of T5, given that gets you zeroed match scores and generally a team loss.

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After thinking, I believe those with 10k to 20k games with perpetually bad scores are probably T1 after over a year of grinding. That's why they get put into our current matches. So MM isn't at fault here.

That's basically what happened over time. Mediocre players were gradually carried into higher tiers, and this tainted any skill level related to higher tiers. After all, you advanced fast if good, but just advanced slower if not good. And it's been years to get there.

Heck, I barely played for a few years. Now I'm T1.

[Jackal Noble]

Brain Cancer, on 11 December 2017 - 03:26 PM, said:

You can't, he's a serial TKer and hence locked at the bottom of T5, given that gets you zeroed match scores and generally a team loss.



That's basically what happened over time. Mediocre players were gradually carried into higher tiers, and this tainted any skill level related to higher tiers. After all, you advanced fast if good, but just advanced slower if not good. And it's been years to get there.

Heck, I barely played for a few years. Now I'm T1.

But not seeing mediocre players. Seeing the very bottom of the barrel.

[Brain Cancer]

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But not seeing mediocre players. Seeing the very bottom of the barrel.

It's been long enough that there's plenty of outright horrible players in the T2+ range. I've even gone over a few endgame screens and posted as much, but that gets you weeklong bans from the forums if you actually point out such players.

[Jackal Noble]

spawn on Crimson Straits E6 side. Skirmish. in spirit bear brawler. player ask what strat is. I shoot from the hip and say let's push saddle hard and over the top. Rush up to the lip with a sizeable contingent of team, thinking we got a good start, at which point realize that 3 of our assaults are not moving towards the saddle but are meandering towards the tunnel. Whatevs ok. we are pretty commited and I say to the assaults that are doing that "you guys need to be able to hit them from the side when we push down, you'll have plenty of targets to pick from" The saddle push commences and we run amok into the enemy team, nasty quick brawl ensues and we get subsequently picked apart, I do terrible and get focused on real quick. Switch over to the assaults in the tunnel to see only one of them actually shooting, the other two are just camping behind the bend of the tunnel.

Flash forward - HPG Conquest. Drop in Linebacker with Bravo lance. Half-heartedly pass through E6 point thinking to scout some of the enemy. See nothing, proceed to head right and get around the back d3/4 curve when I notice that two of our assaults (a mauler and a madcat MKII) are still in B6 not even budging, with only one moving towards the Epsi capture point and the other waddling around to the Bravo lance exit point. I get on coms and say "Charlie, whats up guys, we need you in the fight" dude replies "we are assaults we are slow" I reply back "Ya I get that, but the match started a minute ago and you are still in the spawn point" A few minutes later same guy is complaining that he had no support. Game was over before it even started.

My current fav/angst is the current (I have no idea where this came from) strat of everyone camping on the D6 square of Tourmaline. Like wow, this is going to end well. and it doesn't. every damn time.

[KodiakGW]

Here is another perfect example. Last game tonight. So I get two on my team A WHK that does 53 damage, and a WHM that does 159 damage. But the WHM does so much team damage that he gets zero match score.

So I did a little research.
The WHK pilot - .53 K/D, and 204 average match score
The WHM pilot- .55 K/D and 211 average match score

And on the other team
The GHR-5J with 1018 damage - 7.55 K/D and 432 average match score

HOW THE HELL DOES THIS MATCH MAKER THINK THOSE PLAYERS BELONG IN THE SAME GAME?

Screen shot from my video (which will be uploaded)


So, who do I have to pay off to not be strapped with players like that EVERY GAME?

[Lily from animove]

Brain Cancer, on 11 December 2017 - 03:26 PM, said:

That's basically what happened over time. Mediocre players were gradually carried into higher tiers, and this tainted any skill level related to higher tiers. After all, you advanced fast if good, but just advanced slower if not good. And it's been years to get there.

Heck, I barely played for a few years. Now I'm T1.

This is also causing a snowball effect, the more bads in higher tiers appear, the better can do other bads vs other higher tiers, and this just makes them climb even faster.

Dakota1000, on 11 December 2017 - 09:40 AM, said:

Recent events show that Clan is winning during most of the event, but as soon as IS groups up on the last day they can just easily reverse the whole trend and bring it to a tie. The "if you want to win, group up" line still holds true. What's really making Clan pugs win more than IS pugs is just the level of customization available in IS mechs compared to Clan ones, bads can make even worse builds in IS mechs than they can with Clan ones.

Clan Motto: we don't have to be better, we just need to be less derp

but the truth behind it is sadly disturbing.

VooDoo Doll, on 11 December 2017 - 09:42 AM, said:

First, these statistics are completely useless. The metrics used by PGI make no sense whatsoever. K/D ratio? This is 12 players per team. In a stomp, there's no way you can get a kill. Not one against four, you won't. W/L ratio? Again, how's the win dependent on you, when you need to carry 6 potatoes? Etc.

The only metric that can possibly reflect player's skill is (KMDD + SOLO KILLS)/DEATH. Kills can be stolen by an opportunist cookie. But if you can work an enemy on your own start to finish, that's what I call skillset. Also contributing to teams victory should be counted. So, an objective completed ratio is what's needed: sum(first captures, tag kills, leg components destroyed, holding lock for other player's damage etc.)/Matches played.

Make a running avg of both and voila.

Second, as PGI pulls resources from MWO to MW5 this, and other, improvement discussions are useless also.

KMDDis also equally bad as a number, a load of people use lrm's and ssrm's doing the worst sperad damage. Wanna farm KMDD's? unlaod 2x a streakcrow into an opponent and you nearly always get a KMDD without havign sone some serious kill helping damage to that opponent.

Stomps arent happening regulary, and if so, yes you are part of the cause.
Losing isn't happening regulary, and if so, yes you are part of the cause.
Why do good players have both, good K/D and good W/L? because they are part of this happening. They sure get KMDD's but also surely enough kills and wins.
So if you want a rating you need to factorise all these values into the jugdement, because no good player fails to achieve a good K/D and W/L. Only lesser skilled do.

Mole, on 11 December 2017 - 11:24 AM, said:

I feel like if your average solo player could do just as well on IS side in CW as they could on Clan side then CW wouldn't be so abandoned. But as I said, nobody wants to play IS because unless you're with a group you're just going to get farmed all day. And I still, no matter what justification is used, believe that "join a unit or stop crying" is an unacceptable excuse. Nobody wants to be told "git gud or git gone" which is essentially what you're doing when you tell and IS CW player to join a unit or lose. This would be a different situation if the same were true for clans. If clan pugs just got farmed all day long as well, and it was the same for both sides, then telling people to group up or lose is fine. But that's not how it is. I can solo drop with any random group on Clan CW and win often enough to make me feel good. If I try to do the same on IS, I've just commited to 7 days of getting stomped by clans, be the enemy team a PUG or a unit. It shouldn't be this way, and I feel like if it weren't this way then CW would have a much larger playerbase. But nobody wants to play a game mode that is totally lopsided in one side's favor 90% of the time.

But this isn't exclusively noob or pug behavior. On clanside people don't stop after their first death spamming the chat and complain about evertyhing and the world. On clan side we tell people to shut up and play, but the IS players have a weird snowball emntality where everyone in a sudden goes into a complain and flame war in chat instead on focusing on the battlefield. And I don't believe that sitting in another mech magically changes minds. Playing ont he is side is a challange towards your believe in manking as a higher intelligent being and mental strength.

[Horseman]

Davegt27, on 11 December 2017 - 10:44 AM, said:

its a catch 22,most teams don't want seal players but it takes time to get good
at the same time people are saying if your not doing 1500 dmg then don't drop in
CW
where did they get the 1500 dmg number at(or whatever dmg number you want to use)
simple it an opinion

While the number is slightly inflated, it's not merely an opinion.
Average player damage in QP is about 250-300 - scaled up by 4 mechs, you get 1000-1200. Hence the rule of thumb that players doing less than that in FP (remember this includes damage from strikes - which are a very easy way to boost your score) are underperforming and put their team at an overall disadvantage. The 1500 expectation averages to 375 dmg per mech - quite doable with many builds and accounts for a little "extra" to compensate for underperformers on one's team.

[Lily from animove]

Horseman, on 12 December 2017 - 05:06 AM, said:

While the number is slightly inflated, it's not merely an opinion.
Average player damage in QP is about 250-300 - scaled up by 4 mechs, you get 1000-1200. Hence the rule of thumb that players doing less than that in FP (remember this includes damage from strikes - which are a very easy way to boost your score) are underperforming and put their team at an overall disadvantage. The 1500 expectation averages to 375 dmg per mech - quite doable with many builds and accounts for a little "extra" to compensate for underperformers on one's team.

sorry, but thats not the average numbers, because according to this it would need averagely 250-300 damage to destroy a mech and thats far above what really is needed.

1500 is not the average, simply track the sceens of FW games, 1500 is far form the average. of you would take equally good palyers there wouldn't be 1500's overall, there would maybe be like 600-800's because then all 4 emchs would be gone. Maybe morevs IS due to them coming heavier and more armored (with quirks). but currently highly above average happen because other blow average people (whose with 100-200) leave a lot meat to chew for others.

take tarogatos stats taken from the leaderboards

https://mwomercs.com...derboard-stats/

the average is the middle playingfield, and this means 50% of the people are above it. so the average score is between 159 and 244 score. And thats surely not making 1500 damage per player, because wiht this logic you would have 12 players per FW match having 1500 or above damage but thats not the reality.

Edited by Lily from animove, 12 December 2017 - 06:41 AM.

[Asym]

Brain Cancer, on 11 December 2017 - 03:34 PM, said:

It's been long enough that there's plenty of outright horrible players in the T2+ range. I've even gone over a few endgame screens and posted as much, but that gets you weeklong bans from the forums if you actually point out such players.

I'm one of them BC and not by any choice I can control. If you have been banned for name and shame.......well, please stop that.

I know many are frustrated with MM and we should be but, it's really not right to make new or average players the blame for something they can't fix or improve..... That behavior drives retention down and it's bad enough.....

I'm a below average player and will always be a below average player.... I've been playing what, 10 months, and I'm a Tier 2? Why? I'd prefer being a tier 4 or 5, seriously I would. I out right hate to the core of my being dragging an upper level team down....I do try but, I'm below average and can only manage below average damage and below average longevity..... The Get GuD nonsense gets old to be honest.... I play for the fun of it; not for any imagined glory......... Name and Shame is there for a reason.

Your arguments may be correct for your base of expereince and I agree with a lot of what you say but, for average, new or just visiting players, it divides the community and with the population as it is, we can't afford that.

[Horseman]

Lily from animove, on 12 December 2017 - 06:26 AM, said:

sorry, but thats not the average numbers, because according to this it would need averagely 250-300 damage to destroy a mech and thats far above what really is needed.

You'd be surprised at how much people spread their damage across targets.

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1500 is not the average,

No, it's not - that would be 1000-1200 as I already said. It is, however, the right ballpark for the team to actually succeed. Again, as I already said.

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the average is the middle playingfield, and this means 50% of the people are above it. so the average score is between 159 and 244 score. And thats surely not making 1500 damage per player, because wiht this logic you would have 12 players per FW match having 1500 or above damage but thats not the reality.

1. Those are Quick Play leaderboards. FP scores are not accounted for.
2. 159 to 244 score translates to roughly 300 to 450 damage dealt. Multiply by four mechs.

Lily from animove, on 12 December 2017 - 06:26 AM, said:

1500 is not the average, simply track the sceens of FW games, 1500 is far form the average.

1200 is about average for the winning team (against clan).
If you're doing at least four KMDDs + four kills on your own with less damage than that, then props to you. If you're not that efficient, then 1500 is a reasonable ballpark to shoot for to meaningfully contribute as fire support and make up for your team's underperformers.

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take equally good palyers

Which doesn't really happen unless you are in a full 12-man group.

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there wouldn't be 1500's overall, there would maybe be like 600-800's because then all 4 emchs would be gone

600-800 is something you can do with one good mech. Players who lose four mechs to do that are usually found on the losing team.

Edited by Horseman, 12 December 2017 - 04:59 PM.

[KHETTI]

Are you guys new here?! Tiers mean nothing, and there hasn't been anything in place separating(or attempting to separate) players by skill for years.
The players aren't at fault, the designers are and victimizing players by trying to shame them is flat out wrong, maybe some of you should be forced to take a break for a bit.

[Brain Cancer]

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The players aren't at fault, the designers are

It is the player's fault for being bad and not contributing their fair share to a team. You do poorly, you're still doing poorly and can be legitimately called out for it. You might not belong there, but you're in the slot.

It is the developer's fault for a system that can't take consistently bad players and remove them from the potential pool to begin with, thereby tainting the system continually with players that should be in a sandbox throwing clumps of dirt at each other, but instead get blown to bits like the chaotic mess they are.

[LT. HARDCASE]

KodiakGW, on 11 December 2017 - 08:39 PM, said:

Here is another perfect example. Last game tonight. So I get two on my team A WHK that does 53 damage, and a WHM that does 159 damage. But the WHM does so much team damage that he gets zero match score.

So I did a little research.
The WHK pilot - .53 K/D, and 204 average match score
The WHM pilot- .55 K/D and 211 average match score

And on the other team
The GHR-5J with 1018 damage - 7.55 K/D and 432 average match score

HOW THE HELL DOES THIS MATCH MAKER THINK THOSE PLAYERS BELONG IN THE SAME GAME?

Screen shot from my video (which will be uploaded)


So, who do I have to pay off to not be strapped with players like that EVERY GAME?

I'm curious. What are the stats of the guy in the 1k damage Pretty Baby?

[Leeroy Jenkin]

I am tier 1, but I like chicken, so miss a lot of chances to really put the hurt on the other team. I am a god! The legend continues

[Brain Cancer]

You got something on your Tier there. I think it's...eww, yes. It's a "4".

Also, you totally need to go Davion. They get chased by hordes of Dragons all the time.

[Fleeb the Mad]

Cathy, on 11 December 2017 - 03:19 PM, said:

I agree with most of what you say, there are players that spend, or spent a lot of time playing this game, and as you correctly point out, I am one of those that don't deserve to be sheltered.

You correct again in that comp players are in the very small minority, and the baulk of T1's are going to be those good, semi good that just don't want the hassel of comp play, and hours of team practice.

However what this P.S.R system doesn't recognise, because it's broken by design, is that a lot of players gaming ability levels out, and no matter how many hours a player puts into playing the game, they simply won't, or can't get any better.

This is because of the upward bias put into the system forces people above their skill level, because P.G.I say it's good and they will learn.

Which goes completely against human nature, because a high percentage of human beings are noobs by nature, the very worse of them end up featuring in editions of The Darwin's Awards.

In gaming there is no danger of this and they continue to stand still in the open and score low and end up playing with those that were newbies, but avoided becoming full Noob's because P.S.R was designed on a false idea.

I can't say I necessarily agree with how the system works, though I'm fairly sure people's rage against the matchmaker is misplaced. There's a fairly good case that it's doing exactly what it was intended to do, which is something on a much lower level than what most people expect.

The buckets it separates players into are much bigger than most people want. I'm personally not a fan of the present system. Not because of who is in tier 1 but because eventually it has to break down completely.

Even if tier 1 represented the top 20% based on match score, the majority of it would still be weekend warrior types with a beer in hand. Many of them would still be considered mediocre compared to the dedicated stat farmers despite the fact they were still better than the other 80%, just because there aren't that many people who take the game so seriously.

[sub2000]

KodiakGW, on 11 December 2017 - 08:39 PM, said:

Here is another perfect example. Last game tonight. So I get two on my team A WHK that does 53 damage, and a WHM that does 159 damage. But the WHM does so much team damage that he gets zero match score.

So I did a little research.
The WHK pilot - .53 K/D, and 204 average match score
The WHM pilot- .55 K/D and 211 average match score

And on the other team
The GHR-5J with 1018 damage - 7.55 K/D and 432 average match score

HOW THE HELL DOES THIS MATCH MAKER THINK THOSE PLAYERS BELONG IN THE SAME GAME?

Screen shot from my video (which will be uploaded)


So, who do I have to pay off to not be strapped with players like that EVERY GAME?

TCAF is very strong russian FW team, i wouldn't be surprised he is not even T1 since they play beside QP events only FW. Your screen is actually much worse than you imply. AW, WTAU, MJ12 are strong FW unites.

[Dr Hobo]

Would explain the bizzare games I've had.

I've also noticed in tier 3 hell,that you see some pretty out there builds.

I'm not sure if the matchmaker is breaking down,or if there's just that few people that it can't find enough to fill all the required slots.

8v8 can't come soon enough if that's the case.

[Weeny Machine]

I don't consider myself T1 material. Maybe T2. However, you shouldn't blame the players. They just play in the environment set up by PGI.

As someone already said: the problem is the PSR. You climb steadily. I think no one can be that bad as to lose ranks. This means, in theory, that ALL are T1 in the end.