178 replies to this topic

[Naitrael]

Gunfighter89, on 12 December 2017 - 02:51 PM, said:

The same way I don't appreciate you guys trying to have our mechs nerfed into the ground. I've played IS, I've seen what they can do. I've pulled 3k+ FP games easy with the mechs they have. The idea that IS needs more buffs and Clan needs more nerfs is a self serving lie that's being perpetuated, and I hate those who continue to spread it. I hate PGI for buying into it. But I mostly hate the people that spread it.

So... if you want to play the "misinformation" card, consider everything you're arguing for is IS superiority. Not balance. This is not balance. This is intentionally stacking the game in favor of IS. So if you're arguing for the sake of balance, then what you're arguing for is against balance. Therefore it is a lie. Misinformation. Where I come from, rigging a game in favor of a team is distasteful. You want a fair fight? Bring the drop tonnages back down to 250 for IS. That way we don't have to deal with the 2 x Annihilator, 2 x Assassin BS we've been seing lately. 2 x Annihilators, with Commandos after. That's tolerable. Assassins after? **** that.

I was speaking from experience that the KCom I dealt with in the past has been Merc. When I was with 420, they were playing both sides, and we encountered them in IS mechs, a lot. So yeah, if they're loyalist now, that's a new one on me. But they're just one unit. One unit is a small example. Your point is moot.

You are aware, however, that it's currently not possible to bring 2 ANH and 2 ASN in one Drop Deck, right? Because that would be 280 Tons.
I mean, just to play the 'information card'.
Also, you hate a lot and I don't think that's healthy regarding the fact that this is a game.

[Y E O N N E]

ITT: uninformed individuals who think assessments on Clan/IS balance have anything to do with Faction Play. Hilarious.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 14 December 2017 - 01:07 AM.

[BMKA]

Ghastly, on 12 December 2017 - 02:02 PM, said:

Stormcrow's a lot longer-range and faster than the Bushwacker, you shouldn't've let it get on top of you. Linebacker, meanwhile, is faster, packs more weapons, has more armor, so I'm not sure how you're losing that match-up.

I Forgot I could use Linebackers or stormcrows on Scout modes :/

Ghastly, on 12 December 2017 - 02:02 PM, said:

You can fire four without ghost heat... I run that build pretty often. It's hilariously easy. I've eaten Warhammers and Thunderbolts at mid- and close-range with it, several times.

This is stupid, I.S can do that as well. Battlemaster is THE mech for it.

[MovinTarget]

Yeonne Greene, on 14 December 2017 - 01:07 AM, said:

uninformed individuals who think assessments on Clan/IS balance have anything to do with Faction Play. Hilarious.

This is true, QP and FP are completely different beasts, even when playing the QP map/modes *FOR* FP...

In FP the balance disparity has to do more with the fact that there is a lack of a true MM and no separate queues for solos and groups. These are things actually addressed in QP and TBH once they incorporated the current MM, it seemed the number of stomps of 12-0/12-1 dropped considerably (at least in my experience).

You'll never get a clear assessment of "balance" in FP as long as there is no way to reasonably balance the team skill and coordination.

Edited by MovinTarget, 14 December 2017 - 05:33 AM.

[Phantom Grizzly]

Agreed, MT. Team coordination and cohesion are a huge factor. The only way FP is going to truly be balanced is if you control who is being matched up. Groups vs. Groups, Solos vs. Solos. Yes, it would negatively impact waiting queue times, but nine times out of ten, us here at DSX often get matched against groups: so I don't think it would be way too much a disparity for us. Besides, I prefer to be matched up against other coordinated groups and teams. I hate pug stomping. I'd rather drop against EVIL, MS, or 420 all day long than drop on some unsuspecting pugs. So I would be for such a system being implemented.

What do the rest of you think?

To those of you from yesterday, I apologize if I was being hostile and combative. Rough day, yesterday was. Mr. Hyde came out. Was just seeing red. But I digress... Balancing Faction Play through a decent matchmaker would be preferable to me over trying to balance the mechs and equipment themselves. Good players and good teams are going to wreck no matter what. If you want to shield solo-drop pugs from them, you have to create a separate queue for solo droppers and groups, and that will allow us an accurate vision of how things really are in Faction.

Edited by Gunfighter89, 14 December 2017 - 12:19 PM.

[Dee Eight]

Naitrael, on 13 December 2017 - 09:52 PM, said:

You are aware, however, that it's currently not possible to bring 2 ANH and 2 ASN in one Drop Deck, right? Because that would be 280 Tons.
I mean, just to play the 'information card'.
Also, you hate a lot and I don't think that's healthy regarding the fact that this is a game.

No but two Ani's, an urbie and panther do fit and you can have four armor quirked tanky mechs. Run a 180 LFE in the urbie, a 200 LFE in the panther and 300 LFE's in the Annihilators. Alternative a commando and the assassin.

[Y E O N N E]

MovinTarget, on 14 December 2017 - 05:32 AM, said:

This is true, QP and FP are completely different beasts, even when playing the QP map/modes *FOR* FP...

In FP the balance disparity has to do more with the fact that there is a lack of a true MM and no separate queues for solos and groups. These are things actually addressed in QP and TBH once they incorporated the current MM, it seemed the number of stomps of 12-0/12-1 dropped considerably (at least in my experience).

You'll never get a clear assessment of "balance" in FP as long as there is no way to reasonably balance the team skill and coordination.

Yup.

For that reason, no changes to weapons or 'Mechs should ever be based on FP. Weapons changes should be based on QP and Comp. FP always has the tonnage slider to dial it in.

Truthfully, though, PGI needs to strip out the faction reward bonuses. They are a major contributor to Mercs going and staying Clan for most of the mode's history.

[Grus]

Yeonne Greene, on 14 December 2017 - 01:07 AM, said:

ITT: uninformed individuals who think assessments on Clan/IS balance have anything to do with Faction Play. Hilarious.

would be nice to have different stats for mech's and such for FP and QP. Not unheard of in games just look at warthunder.

Dee Eight, on 14 December 2017 - 11:46 AM, said:

No but two Ani's, an urbie and panther do fit and you can have four armor quirked tanky mechs. Run a 180 LFE in the urbie, a 200 LFE in the panther and 300 LFE's in the Annihilators. Alternative a commando and the assassin.

would definitely go with the commando and assassin..

[Stitchedup]

Is there idea what moderate mobility gains actually mean?

[Y E O N N E]

Stitchedup, on 14 December 2017 - 06:22 PM, said:

Is there idea what moderate mobility gains actually mean?

Check the quirk PDF that was linked in the patch notes and find out.

[Cpt Contego]

I keep hearing IS out-ranges/damages Clans with ER Large lasers... How in the hell does Clan ER Lrg Las with a max range of 1700 meters!!! outrange an IS ER Lrg Laser at 1500 meters!? (Stats taken from a Ebon Jag vs Battle Master, both with max skills + Max Targeting Comp). If you lose FP whilst playing as a Clanner, you are either a beginner, or you are in a below average group.

Edit: (unrelated to my point) Find me any IS mech that can pull off this kind of alpha strike damage at 55 tonnes with that kind of heat efficiency!

Edited by Cpt Contego, 15 December 2017 - 04:32 AM.

[Phantom Grizzly]

Yeonne Greene, on 14 December 2017 - 01:07 AM, said:

ITT: uninformed individuals who think assessments on Clan/IS balance have anything to do with Faction Play. Hilarious.

Well, every change to a mech or weapons system can influence or throw off Faction Play balance. That's why people, like Charles and I, look at the changes carefully. Sadly, there aren't separate attributes for mechs being used in Quick Play and Faction Play. So the changes reverberate into Faction Play, even if they are made with Quick Play as a focus.

Edited by Gunfighter89, 15 December 2017 - 09:50 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Gunfighter89, on 15 December 2017 - 09:48 PM, said:

Well, every change to a mech or weapons system can influence or throw off Faction Play balance. That's why people, like Charles and I, look at the changes carefully. Sadly, there aren't separate attributes for mechs being used in Quick Play and Faction Play. So the changes reverberate into Faction Play, even if they are made with Quick Play as a focus.

That's kind of besides my point. Of course the changes reverberate, but FP has the tonnage slider to incentivize or disincentivize certain drop-decks. Would a Battlemaster be such a pain in the butt if you knew they could only realistically field one without leaving themselves disadvantaged for later drops? I suspect not. QP has no such controls. Competitive leagues do, but at the same time they don't force teams into being homogeneously Clan or IS.

More the the heart of the matter, though, FP results are skewed too heavily by the organized teams to get any sort of accurate measure. What you and yours might think is a really tough nut to crack may have already been cracked by another unit, etc.

[Phantom Grizzly]

Which is why separating organized groups and units from the pugs would be beneficial to seeing how FP balance currently stands. Split the two like QP and GP. But instead of Tiers, it's first come first serve, due to FP's lower participation rate among the overall population of the game. Separate the pugs from the groups, and then we can really see what the current state of balance is.

[Y E O N N E]

Gunfighter89, on 16 December 2017 - 08:10 PM, said:

Which is why separating organized groups and units from the pugs would be beneficial to seeing how FP balance currently stands. Split the two like QP and GP. But instead of Tiers, it's first come first serve, due to FP's lower participation rate among the overall population of the game.

Sure. But at this point, I don't want to hear anything about XYZ needing nerfed with the justification being FP performance. Comp and QP performance, sure. But not FP.

Quote

Separate the pugs from the groups, and then we can really see what the current state of balance is.

You can already see what the current state of balance is by observing the results of MWOWC. Not much has actually changed between the tournament client and the current game except for Medium Lasers slowing down (didn't actually see a whole lot of those in comp anyway) and UAC shells getting faster+hotter (again, didn't actually see a whole lot of those). When the new season of MRBC starts, you'll be able to see even more up to date results.

[Genesis23]

11/16 Mechs used in the final EON vs EMP were clan, so they cant be that bad..

[MovinTarget]

In retrospect, had FP been tiered for involvlement from the beginning they could had done some really cool things with "FP-only" mechs that you earn/buy that can only be used *for* FP... they would have different behaviors/quirks and serve as a natural attunement process to prevent players from dropping 4 min/maxed mechs regardless of faction.

You could start at the QP modes for FP so its familiar to newcomers. After earning a level or 2 for a faction, you are rewarded a FP-only light mech that is typical for that faction that can be used in scouting. A few more levels and you can can have a drop deck built with faction-based variants, all indepently balanced from their QP equivalents.

Here's the kicker, you can earn (more) mech bays but they only can carry your FP mechs. Mercs might have more flexibility in mech selection, but all costs would be substantially higher to encourage them to stay in one place to get their money's worth when investing in a faction's mech.

By balancing tonnage and mechs independent of QP, a lot of the issues could (potentially) be addressed. Like other games that have a campaign mode versus arcade... you understand things are inherently different. It also adds a bit more depth as you really would start over if you switch factions...

Probably too late population-wise and only now is really feasible as there are enough mech variants to give each faction some character...

I am sure others have presented similar concepts so if i am rehashing someone's ideas, it's not intentional...

Edited by MovinTarget, 17 December 2017 - 07:20 AM.

[DerHenker]

any chance that my grad grad grad grad son will see it happen that the loading time after match will get faster ?

[VXVXJustinVXVX]

Hey pgi stop updateing and start banning sick of hackers 103 armor 53 s lost is a sec getting shot by 1 guy. STOP UPDATEING BAN ez ull get more players thx have a good day