34 replies to this topic

[kapusta11]

It's already a pain in the *** to play IS mechs but when you have to deal a horribe cooldown desync ER/MLs have with AC20s, LLs and LPLs it feels like a torture.

Also, revert the LPL nerf, there's no reason to take it over LL right now.

[El Bandito]

Yep, the ML nerf kinda brought down IS DPS due to cooldown desync. Clan DPS isn't affected as much cause they need to cool off anyway.

Edited by El Bandito, 16 December 2017 - 04:41 AM.

[Bud Crue]

I suspect: never.
If anything they will nerf other things as well, due to their perceived “over perfomance” caused by players attempting to compensate for the reduction of the ML performance by taking other weapons.
For example, I’ve been seeing a lot of MPL usage overall and a lot of lights running ERSL for example.

But no matter what they hit next -and they will hit something sooner or later- it is unlikely that they will “revert” the ML nerfs.

[Humpday]

Probably not TBH, Extending out the cooldown of ERML/ML makes MPL more "viable", not that it wasn't viable before, what before, everyone would just take MLs due to the short cooldown and extended range.

Now with this change, you now have to decide, you do want a faster cycling weapon and less range? Or more range and a long cooldown.

Nerf doesn't bother me unless I'm in my Wolfhound Grinner which...man when you poke in a mech thats a high pressure mech, it takes FOREVER for those to come off cooldown.

ERML's on bigger mechs, I don't even notice the diff since I'm usually waiting on an Autocannon or something else to cool down anyway.

[InspectorG]

1 slot, 1 ton 'Filler' damage that can be added to most Alphas/DPS as long as there are E hardpoints available.

Thats the plight of the ML.

[TheArisen]

Hopefully soon. Clanners were already stronger and this nerf affects IS more.

[Daurock]

TheArisen, on 14 December 2017 - 09:03 AM, said:

Hopefully soon. Clanners were already stronger and this nerf affects IS more.

I suspect it's more likely that they instead nerf the damage of the c-erML. At best, you might see a small damage (to 6) boost to the isML, but i suspect that'd instead be part of a general IS-Clan re-balance rather than an individual change to the weapon.

Reason being, they want to make breathing room for the small lasers, and pulse lasers. No one took IS MPL, or smalls of any kind before. Now, you see more of them, and more variety is a good thing. The ML STILL is a pretty good supplementary damage source due to its particularly low weight. It's just less good at being a primary weapon now.

[Magnus Santini]

Daurock, on 14 December 2017 - 09:14 AM, said:

...The ML STILL is a pretty good supplementary damage source due to its particularly low weight. It's just less good at being a primary weapon now.

Just because it is sometimes the best 1-slot 1-ton option for a mech does not mean it is good. And there were a lot of IS mechs that used the ML as a primary weapon. Some playstyles could switch to ERMLs but brawlers can't.

[Grus]

Pgi- "ballance"

[FupDup]

At the very least they should revert it on the standard ML, because both before and after the nerf almost nobody uses the vanilla ML anymore. It's dangerously close to extinction.

[humpday alt]

FupDup, on 14 December 2017 - 02:34 PM, said:

At the very least they should revert it on the standard ML, because both before and after the nerf almost nobody uses the vanilla ML anymore. It's dangerously close to extinction.

Tell that to my Heavy Gauss 7ML Bounty Hunter lol.
Several light mechs still field ML's bc they are way too hot

[YueFei]

humpday alt, on 14 December 2017 - 02:35 PM, said:

Tell that to my Heavy Gauss 7ML Bounty Hunter lol.
Several light mechs still field ML's bc they are way too hot

Heavy Gauss has such long cooldown that it aligns anyway with new Medium Laser cooldown. You can fire one salvo, then start another burn with your Medium Lasers, begin charging your Heavy Gauss in mid-burn, finish your burn, then correct for lead and shoot the Heavy Gauss.

But try SRM6 + Medium Lasers. Cooldown de-sync is awkward. You either lose DPS by waiting for cooldowns to re-align, or you face-stare more as you crank out the SRM6's first, and then wait for Medium Lasers to cooldown again. And with every subsequent salvo, the cooldowns de-sync further and further.

Heavy Gauss + Medium Lasers has some range to play with, you can even shoot while losing some damage due to damage fall-off from range.

SRMs just straight up die at max range, so using with SRM6 + Medium Lasers usually involves danger-close brawling, where you just might not have cover to fall back to immediately, so having good sustained damage output and the ability to deliver damage in short sharp bursts matters a lot more.

[Xetelian]

Revert the LPL nerf please!

Revert the ERML/ML nerfs please!

Revert the SRM nerfs please!

Revert the UAC jam nerfs please!


Just to name some of the more egregious and recent nerfs.


Roll back engine desync or give everything twice the mobility and agility that it has now.

[SteelMantis]

I'm actually expecting more laser nerfs next year.

Remember PGI was going to hit lasers with some bigger nerfs a few months ago and changed their minds about it because of so many people getting angry. However according to their stats lasers are over performing so I wouldn't be surprised if they just decided to spread the nerfs out over several patches to make them less noticeable.

I agree with nerfing lasers myself, they do seem like they do more damage than they should considering their weight, lack of travel time and not having any ammo that can run out or explode.

[Xetelian]

SteelMantis, on 15 December 2017 - 01:24 AM, said:

I'm actually expecting more laser nerfs next year.

Remember PGI was going to hit lasers with some bigger nerfs a few months ago and changed their minds about it because of so many people getting angry. However according to their stats lasers are over performing so I wouldn't be surprised if they just decided to spread the nerfs out over several patches to make them less noticeable.

I agree with nerfing lasers myself, they do seem like they do more damage than they should considering their weight, lack of travel time and not having any ammo that can run out or explode.

See, that is the wrong approach.

Make other weapons better and you'll see less of an advantage by lasers?

• Lasers don't have ammo, so up the amount of ammo in each ton of a ballistic and shorter ranged missile weapons.
  
• Lasers don't have travel time, so up the velocity on the slower weapons.
  
• Lasers are light? Well they're hot so just decrease the heat of ballistics and missiles

That is how I approach this.


They nerfed SRM, UACs, Gauss, PPC, LRMs, and left lasers as the only thing that hadn't been severely hit. I mean there were a few range nerfs but we're talking about the medium laser nerfs specifically.




Can we get rid of engine desync? Or rebalance the entirety of the assault mech lineup? My Atlas with a 350 STD engine can't fit a LFE because of the weapons in its shoulders and can't twist enough to warrant using it over a CP-10-Q or BLR 1G or BNC 3M or VTR.


Can we unnerf the cSPL by 1 point? 2 points of damage off of them was too much and the extremely small DPS gains do NOT make up for that fact.

[Khobai]

CERML damage needs to be lowered, it should be 6 damage instead of 7 damage

but all the other stats should also be changed appropriately (less heat, shorter cooldown, shorter duration, etc...)

CERML should be 6 damage, 5.4 heat, 4.00 cooldown, 1.0 beam duration, 400m/800m range

that gives it 1 more damage than the ISERML

but also gives it 1 less damage than the CMPL

which is exactly where it should be

Edited by Khobai, 15 December 2017 - 01:57 AM.

[Sjorpha]

I'd put ERML cooldown at 4 and regular ML at 3.

[Khobai]

the ML already fires faster than the ERML

but the ML should have a shorter beam duration than the ERML

same with the LL vs the ERLL. the LL needs a shorter beam duration than the ERLL.

[Exard3k]

Khobai, on 15 December 2017 - 02:10 AM, said:

but the ML should have a shorter beam duration than the ERML

I like it the way it is. ML has way less heat (25%) than ERML already which is a good trade-off. Further decrease in duration (like .8) really threatens the medium pulse....

I use ML and ERML almost 50/50 when I check all my mechs...balanced choice between them, at least for me.

And yeah...the LL is crap right now. I switched all my LL to ERLL after the change. Skill tree or 3060 patch, don't remember. Make LL have 6 heat instead of 7 and then I'd consider using them again; analogue choice between heat or range like medium lasers.

Edited by Exard3k, 15 December 2017 - 05:07 AM.

[The Basilisk]

I rather think the other lasers, like the recently nerfed CERLLaser will be slowly nerfed one after the other too.

They are just too effective in comparision with other weapons like PPC, Gauss and ACs.

While Lasers suffer the least from hitreg issues due to beeing hitscan weapons weapons with a far more corse or single dmg impule are too unrealiable in conjunction with their other downsides outright not servicable for some players.

So Lasers need to be brought into line.