144 replies to this topic

[davoodoo]

Well to be fair, mechwarriors are elite in the setting and "tank drivers" doesnt give them justice, they are treated more like aces from top gun.

There are still tanks, fighters, vtols and shitton of infantry.

[Khobai]

battletech should introduce aliens

with tech thats as better as clan tech than clan tech is compared to IS tech

and they only use quad mechs.

then we could have a third faction thats even more OP than clans, plus quads.

because its not like this game is balanced anyway

Edited by Khobai, 15 December 2017 - 02:28 AM.

[xRatas]

One of the best things about battletech is that it doesn't include aliens. Humanity has managed to screw up most of everything all by themselves.

I got an idea though, I think Star Trek should be reimagined as a story of space shuttle that has trouble getting safely to moon and back. Would make much more realistic story.

[The Basilisk]

razenWing, on 14 December 2017 - 10:04 PM, said:

When you analyze Battletech, it's really an odd combination of conflicting ideas.
[...]

The first sentence already shows that you neither have any kind of idea what Battletech actually is, where it comes from, why it is what it is and how "logical" tech actually works.

The birthright and primary idea of Battletech is to get away from animee stupid magic littlegirl singing bllinky magiccolor my little pony stuff.

It is about a universe where mankind made its perpetual error of bringing its first and most capital sins to every world.
- envy
- lordliness
- murder
- greed

Battletech tells the tale of the guys and girls fighting for crazy starlords in handdown losstech machines among a mankind that hardly knows basic tech anymore on most planets because they used for centurys any weapon available to cubber each other back to stoneage.
That is the setting of Battletech.
I like it.
And so do other BattletetechFans.

If you do not like the basics, if you do not like BATTLETECH go play hawken or any other twitchy bullscrap....oh right doesn't exist anymore guess why.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

thats many Problems in BT

Aerospacefighters and Space Travel and nothing Tech for Guided missles over 1000m
30ft Warmachines fighting in Ranges of the 19th Century Infantry Combat ...and miss many Hits of this giant Targets when both moving with 60kmh ..Thats 18m Targets !!!!in the 19th Century a Infantrymen hit a 1,80m Target in 300m with his Enfield Rifle.
and the problem with Ammo ...nothing space for all the Ammo in the Mech

[Kaeb Odellas]

The Basilisk, on 15 December 2017 - 02:46 AM, said:

The first sentence already shows that you neither have any kind of idea what Battletech actually is, where it comes from, why it is what it is and how "logical" tech actually works.

The birthright and primary idea of Battletech is to get away from animee stupid magic littlegirl singing bllinky magiccolor my little pony stuff.

It is about a universe where mankind made its perpetual error of bringing its first and most capital sins to every world.
- envy
- lordliness
- murder
- greed

Battletech tells the tale of the guys and girls fighting for crazy starlords in handdown losstech machines among a mankind that hardly knows basic tech anymore on most planets because they used for centurys any weapon available to cubber each other back to stoneage.
That is the setting of Battletech.
I like it.
And so do other BattletetechFans.

If you do not like the basics, if you do not like BATTLETECH go play hawken or any other twitchy bullscrap....oh right doesn't exist anymore guess why.

Let's be real here. The BattleTech setting is no less stupid than generic robot anime #5. The technology in BattleTech is no more logical than that of Mobile Suit Gundam. If anything, I find Gundam's Minovsky particles to be a far better justification for why giant fighting robots are a thing than BattleTech's "We know how to make giant fighting robots but forgot how to make cruise missiles."


I wouldn't mind seeing retcons in BattleTech, or even a full franchise reboot. Long-running franchises like these get bloated with nonsense over time, and keeping them healthy requires trimming some of the fat.

Edited by Kaeb Odellas, 15 December 2017 - 03:43 AM.

[The Basilisk]

Kaeb Odellas, on 15 December 2017 - 03:39 AM, said:

Let's be real here. The BattleTech setting is no less stupid than generic robot anime #5. The technology in BattleTech is no more logical than that of Mobile Suit Gundam. If anything, I find Gundam's Minovsky particles to be a far better justification for why giant fighting robots are a thing than BattleTech's "We know how to make giant fighting robots but forgot how to make cruise missiles."


I wouldn't mind seeing retcons in BattleTech, or even a full franchise reboot. Long-running franchises like these get bloated with nonsense over time, and keeping them healthy requires trimming some of the fat.

AGAIN PLEASE STOP REPEATING BS ARGUMENTS AND ACTUALLY READ THE STORYS !!!
Reading comprehension realy seems to be a lost art this days

The point of the Battletech setting is LosTech.

Mankind largely does not know anymore how to make large stompy robots and fusion powered Spacecrafts and Jumpships.

There are only few of those who know how left,.... guarded by some power hungry space kings.

Only recently some lucky idiot stumbled over an extensive data storage (we are talking about the wikipedia of everything 1000 Years of future tech inclusive) on Planet Helm and distributed it among the great houses.
And those are after ~60 years in the progress of unlocking the technologys included in the Helm data core...most planets in the BT Universe barely qualyfie as industrial communitys and rather are agricultural or completely specialized and dependant from outside supply.

We are talking about a setting with a situation after 300 years of WW2 in central europe ... most nowadays tech is developed further than everything you will find on the averange planet in the BT universe.
Most of the books are written from the position of the royals and rulers who live in the capital planets that still have decen if inconsistant tech.

And b.t.w. when you want to see a prominent case of "we don't know anymore how to make cruise missiles but know how to make an effin space robit" think of the US space faring program.
They know how to make fission reactors highly efficient fuelcells and selfdriving cars and effin railguns and laser cannons but they hardly get a rocket to moon anymore....odd huh ?
Simple answer: "The Lostech effect"

If you do not want to downtalk how things actually work step back from the "I want singing prepubescent girls in miniskirts" attitude and think about some highly developed technologys mankind has actually lost recently.

It sounds funny but is absolutely true:
- VHS Video recorders
- High res high frequency CTR Televisions

The keycomponents of those that are absolutely needed to make them work do not exist anymore.
We know how to repair them and how they basicaly work and what is needed in theory to build them but we realy do not know how to construct, develop and improve certain key components that went out of production some time ago and the know how went lost.

Edited by The Basilisk, 15 December 2017 - 04:23 AM.

[davoodoo]

Kaeb Odellas, on 15 December 2017 - 03:39 AM, said:

Let's be real here. The BattleTech setting is no less stupid than generic robot anime #5. The technology in BattleTech is no more logical than that of Mobile Suit Gundam. If anything, I find Gundam's Minovsky particles to be a far better justification for why giant fighting robots are a thing than BattleTech's "We know how to make giant fighting robots but forgot how to make cruise missiles."


I wouldn't mind seeing retcons in BattleTech, or even a full franchise reboot. Long-running franchises like these get bloated with nonsense over time, and keeping them healthy requires trimming some of the fat.

You forgot to mention how that machine is moving at stellar speeds and doing ridiculous maneuvers including melee combat using for control what amounts to series of levers and pedals which i must ******* assume every 12 yo is capable of doing somehow.

Edited by davoodoo, 15 December 2017 - 04:06 AM.

[Appogee]

razenWing, on 14 December 2017 - 10:04 PM, said:

I mean, is Hans Davion really going to conquer a planet of 2 billion with 200 battle mechs that takes 20 years to go around a planet?

Hans has jumpships and dropships. So the speed of battlemechs deployed on land is a moot point.

[The Lighthouse]

Oh my god this thread.....

Battletech was never meant to be serious. It is literally 80s teenager boys' fantasy, with all of weird 80s culture stuffs, including some from Japanese anime (it was such rage at that time) ingrained deeply... except they are not coherently presented. It is indeed all over the place. One mentions how agile mechs are, particularly light mechs that can do gymnastic maneuvers, like nimbly using their arms to roll over the ground and get up, while others portray mechs as incredibly cumbersome.

You guys talk about serious "military" stuffs, except those military stuffs are so wrong at basic physics that even typical cheap fantasy novel setting would be more realistic than Battletech universe, where mechs with such tonnage that would float on water and some vehicles that would float in air like a balloon.

It was really Western's take on Gundam, whether you hate or not.

And of course there isn't even basic coherent art direction as well, since Battletech is truly mixture of ideas, from Japanese anime robots, to some most craziest designs from teenage boys of 80s to more 'realistic' designs by recent developers such as Microsoft. They are all over the place.


Well, it's personal taste so I won't argue, but one thing is certain; if you don't like these elements, it means you obviously don't like Battletech itself.

[Bud Crue]

Remember the original Battlestar Galactica? The one from the late 70s?

Big, galaxy spanning show. Lots of planets. Lots of space battles. Lots of intrigue, yada, yada, yada.

Remember when they moved the show to Earth, and called the new series "Galactica 1980"?
Yeah. It was a really bad idea, it barely lasted a season.

[arcana75]

Like any sci-fi setting, the creators of BT (Weisman and co) had to balance what can make sense, with what is fun.

If you take technology along its logical path, battles will be engaged further away, and with less human involvement. Think about some weapons we have today and tomorrow. Long range lasers, high speed projectiles and missiles. Is firing a laser and obliterating something thousands of km away fun? Realistic yeah, but fun no. Imagine a supersonic missile blowing up something, fired from 500km away. Realistic, not fun.

Firing 100s of swarm missiles with cool missile trails IN SPACE. Now that's fun. Laser swords on giant robots which also have laser cannons which can blow up giant spaceships from distance. Laser. Swords. On. Giant. Robots.

BattleTech's setting of feudal wars and galactic conquest and Clan invasion... well, Star Trek's world of peace and science, where Earth is so peaceful and evolved, is nice, but boooring. BattleTech's chaotic and violent setting is what makes it more interesting and fun. I remember reading the Stackpole novels back when I was a kid, the Clan invasion, Phelan Kell, Kai Allard-Liao, reading the manuals, etc. At the time I was also reading Star Wars novels (EU now non-canon books. Rogue Squadron ftw), and frankly the setting of BT made their novella that much richer, interesting and engaging.

[Wolfways]

Battletech is too big?

i guess Warhammer 40K should be scrapped too seeing as a call for reinforcements could take years, hell even generations to arrive.

[razenWing]

Sam Ael, on 15 December 2017 - 05:19 AM, said:

You either don't know or you don't like Battletech, so there is no need to discuss.

Lol with multiple comments like this:

"You don't agree with my undying devotion, so either you don't know and don't like it."

Either way, my point is... if there is a Armor Core version of Battletech, where it's a balanced version of retro 80s stompy robits on a relatable setting + creative designs (instead of generic robits looking like the Avatar robits, que Titanfall and etc.)

I would jumpship so fast.

But alas, we don't.

Battletech has somehow amass a conglomeration of the most creative mech designs with just the exact feel of stompiness to make gameplay interesting. (I mean, there aren't many other games where you can sit through 8 minutes of youtube video from a 50% developed casting system and still get excited)

But honestly, I don't see what you guys have gripes about a smaller setting. It's still in the future. It's still about stompy robits and Lostech idea. None of the elements are stripped except condensed to a smaller setting to focus more on struggles.

Not counting MWO, I thought the best iteration video game series was Mechwarrior 3. Because it didn't deal with all that intergalactic conflicts that doesn't make a lick of sense. It's one squad on a very small area fighting for survival. And it works a helluva lot better to me than MW1, 2, 4, Commanders, and other XBOX clones.

Besides, retconning is good. If the universe ever give me a chance, I would retcon the crap out of SW Episode 1-3. No more midichlorians, Jedis are long extinct by the time of Darth Vadar, and instead Darth Vadar is more of a rebel fighter turned evil character instead of some last hope of this vast bureaucratic Jedi organization. Also, I would make the whole concept of the Clone Wars a major uprising against the Galactic Empire that failed due to Anakin's betrayal instead of some Jedi vs Sith BS.

But yea, if forum reaction is to be anticipated, obviously I either don't understand Star Wars or hate it too. Cause you know, suggesting anything remotely different from establish lore makes you either not knowledgeable or a hater.

(where's the o well emoji when I need it?)

-------------------

PS what's wrong with fighting purely on Earth and other solar system objects anyways? An interesting story is interesting because... well, it's interesting. I have never watched Battlestar Galactica, but I am sure that earth version of that show failed NOT BECAUSE it's on earth, but probably due to crappy writing and unmotivated stories.

PS2: One last edit:

Appogee, on 15 December 2017 - 04:38 AM, said:

Hans has jumpships and dropships. So the speed of battlemechs deployed on land is a moot point.

So, why not skip the middleman and just have robits walking from Paris to Amsterdam? Like, it's the exact same thing without all the needless complication of jumpships and dropships...

(and if you like dropships so much, replace the idea with giant transport helicopter gunships...)

Edited by razenWing, 15 December 2017 - 05:51 AM.

[arcana75]

razenWing, on 15 December 2017 - 05:40 AM, said:

Either way, my point is... if there is a Armor Core version of Battletech, where it's a balanced version of retro 80s stompy robits on a relatable setting + creative designs (instead of generic robits looking like the Avatar robits, que Titanfall and etc.)

I would jumpship so fast.

There are... or rather there have been, but they don't last long, not as long as BT. Eg Heavy Gear, Terra Nova.

Warhammer 40k has mechs too. And they have some great designs, but they aren't a key feature of the franchise. W40K in some ways is similar to BT, just swap feudal houses & SL/ComStar for fantasy races and a space religion.

Edited by arcana75, 15 December 2017 - 05:48 AM.

[Fiachdubh]

There is a lot of Battletech, particularly around the Mechs, that does not make sense. Normally that would drive me crazy but I love BT the way it is. How would it be made today in an era of smart missiles with an accurate range of hundreds of kilo-meters, advanced fire control systems, etc.? The incredible low tech weaponry and electronics amongst the high tech future gives the BT universe charm.

Edited by Fiachdubh, 15 December 2017 - 06:26 AM.

[Wolfways]

razenWing, on 15 December 2017 - 05:40 AM, said:

But yea, if forum reaction is to be anticipated, obviously I either don't understand Star Wars or hate it too. Cause you know, suggesting anything remotely different from establish lore makes you either not knowledgeable or a hater.

If you liked it why would you want to change it?
It's fine to not like something but that doesn't mean others can't like it, and there is no reason to change BT when people do like it.

[Bombast]

Yeonne Greene, on 14 December 2017 - 10:23 PM, said:

Of all the reasons to re-write BattleTech, the setting being "too big" is not a strong one.

I know, right? Battletech is almost perfectly sized, universe wise - Big enough for a lot of individual stories and the like, but small enough where everything's connected in some way. It's one of the big strengths of the franchise, in my opinion.

Khobai, on 15 December 2017 - 02:26 AM, said:

battletech should introduce aliens

Ugh. Time for copy pasta.

Quote

The desolation of the Inner Sphere is part of the universe for a reason - Battletech is about us. Humanity united, and looked to the stars for hope. They built fusion reactors and KY drives, and fashioned for themselves vessels with which they could explore the infinite. Using these ships, they traveled a thousand light years from home, searching for something beyond themselves.

And they found nothing. No matter where they looked or where they went, all that was there was us. No advanced species, barely any native ecosystems, nothing of any real note. Humanity was alone, and there was nothing new. So humanity stopped looking, and once again turned inward, and there they found nothing but misery.

Star Trek is about the hope of discovery. Star Wars about the battle between good and evil. Stargate is about the struggle against powers that are beyond our control; essentially battling the Gods who seek to rule us. 40K is about the eternal fight for survival in a Universe that is, at best, hostile; and at worst, hates us. Battletech isn't about dealing with that which is without, but that which is within - The absolute worst and best that we humans are, turned on itself like Ouroboros. Even when the Clans returned from their journey beyond all that was known, it wasn't new - Just another human power, vying for control over other human powers.

At least, that's what Battletech is to me. It's a big Universe of course, and everyone is free to look at it however they like. But that's my opinion on it.

Anyway, as to the thread itself, I don't agree with the initial assertions, so I see no point to devolve Battletech to meet them. No thanks.

[Kaeb Odellas]

The Basilisk, on 15 December 2017 - 03:58 AM, said:

AGAIN PLEASE STOP REPEATING BS ARGUMENTS AND ACTUALLY READ THE STORYS !!!
Reading comprehension realy seems to be a lost art this days

The point of the Battletech setting is LosTech.

Mankind largely does not know anymore how to make large stompy robots and fusion powered Spacecrafts and Jumpships.

There are only few of those who know how left,.... guarded by some power hungry space kings.

Only recently some lucky idiot stumbled over an extensive data storage (we are talking about the wikipedia of everything 1000 Years of future tech inclusive) on Planet Helm and distributed it among the great houses.
And those are after ~60 years in the progress of unlocking the technologys included in the Helm data core...most planets in the BT Universe barely qualyfie as industrial communitys and rather are agricultural or completely specialized and dependant from outside supply.

We are talking about a setting with a situation after 300 years of WW2 in central europe ... most nowadays tech is developed further than everything you will find on the averange planet in the BT universe.
Most of the books are written from the position of the royals and rulers who live in the capital planets that still have decen if inconsistant tech.

And b.t.w. when you want to see a prominent case of "we don't know anymore how to make cruise missiles but know how to make an effin space robit" think of the US space faring program.
They know how to make fission reactors highly efficient fuelcells and selfdriving cars and effin railguns and laser cannons but they hardly get a rocket to moon anymore....odd huh ?
Simple answer: "The Lostech effect"

If you do not want to downtalk how things actually work step back from the "I want singing prepubescent girls in miniskirts" attitude and think about some highly developed technologys mankind has actually lost recently.

It sounds funny but is absolutely true:
- VHS Video recorders
- High res high frequency CTR Televisions

The keycomponents of those that are absolutely needed to make them work do not exist anymore.
We know how to repair them and how they basicaly work and what is needed in theory to build them but we realy do not know how to construct, develop and improve certain key components that went out of production some time ago and the know how went lost.

BattleTech as a setting asks the reader to accept that a civilization can send absolutely massive ships throughout the solar system on a daily basis but can't figure out how to launch a cruise missile? It's utter nonsense.

Your comparison to CRTs, VHS, and the moon landings is silly. We didn't forget how to land a rocket on the moon. We stopped because we didn't simply need to go to the moon anymore. Moon missions no longer fulfilled a purpose. It's not that we don't know how to make CRTs and VHS recorders. It's that we can no longer make the exact models that were produced in the past because all that tech was scrapped. And we don't need to, because we replaced them with tech that is better in every way. If BattleMechs were superior replacements to cruise missiles, then perhaps you'd have a point here, but they're not. BattleMechs shouldn't even be superior to tanks, since a tank should be able to benefit from all the underlying tech without being massive targets.



And for the record, I'm not some mecha anime superfan. I just find it hilarious when BattleTech fans sneer at anime robots for not being "realistic", as if BattleTech was even remotely that.

[davoodoo]

Wolfways, on 15 December 2017 - 05:25 AM, said:

Battletech is too big?

i guess Warhammer 40K should be scrapped too seeing as a call for reinforcements could take years, hell even generations to arrive.

Depends, some small agriworld on edge of segmentum, nobody cares enough to actually send reinforcements unless inquisition smells heresy.

But terra?? youll have imperial fists on you within hour.

But yeah you can directly compare op opinion on battlemechs to imperial titans, completely ignoring everything else that guard got to play with and thinking only titans defend planets.

Edited by davoodoo, 15 December 2017 - 07:24 AM.