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Assassin Is Bugged: Everyone Knows It


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#101 Hal Greaves

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 12:52 PM

View PostKin3ticX, on 18 December 2017 - 09:08 PM, said:


Hal works on rubber figurines IRL but not the kind you would bounce around on a TT board


hey we make small ones that would be perfect for a TT Board

#102 Maker L106

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 12:55 PM

View PostGrus, on 19 December 2017 - 11:51 AM, said:

now to quantify, depending on how you skill out either mech will change the dynamic drasticly. (Linebacker more so with omni pods) but since the assassin's torso is just slightly wider than a st and CT of the linebacker it benefits more so form "hitreg/lag shield" with added survivor skills applied. Add in speed tweek, and well...

Yes linebackers can be Tammy, and can be fast, but the "dodge" chance of an assassin is crazy... But if your that worried about the assassin just bring a tag and streaks, it won't want to be closer than 400m of you.


Exactly what I keep pointing out. I'm of the opinion the mech isn't broken or OP, it doesn't even need the hitbox fixes that it probably should have IMO.

Also yeah The LB / Assassin either one skilled up for survival is nice. We've run 4xCStreak6's and had zero issue when they were encountered. Aim for one leg with pinpoint, splat them, down. any fast mover just needs a healthy amount of splat and pinpoint to tear them apart.

#103 ANOM O MECH

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 01:00 PM

View PostGrus, on 19 December 2017 - 11:51 AM, said:

now to quantify, depending on how you skill out either mech will change the dynamic drasticly. (Linebacker more so with omni pods) but since the assassin's torso is just slightly wider than a st and CT of the linebacker it benefits more so form "hitreg/lag shield" with added survivor skills applied. Add in speed tweek, and well...

Yes linebackers can be Tammy, and can be fast, but the "dodge" chance of an assassin is crazy... But if your that worried about the assassin just bring a tag and streaks, it won't want to be closer than 400m of you.


Streaks and even splat in general if you are not even half bad eats them.

I have a classic Scorch build on a MCII that can one shot at the most two, and wipe out Assassins.

If Clans started running some streak dogs or crows in the begining of CW match, say four or five, then the rest decent brawling builds, there would be no Assassin issue. Bet teams would stop running them fast.

That's why I want to see evidence as currently it is hard to tell if they are that messed up reg wise or is a good deal of it because erlg lasers are not effective as a counter to them.

#104 Maker L106

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 01:18 PM

View Posttker 669, on 19 December 2017 - 01:00 PM, said:


Streaks and even splat in general if you are not even half bad eats them.

I have a classic Scorch build on a MCII that can one shot at the most two, and wipe out Assassins.

If Clans started running some streak dogs or crows in the begining of CW match, say four or five, then the rest decent brawling builds, there would be no Assassin issue. Bet teams would stop running them fast.

That's why I want to see evidence as currently it is hard to tell if they are that messed up reg wise or is a good deal of it because erlg lasers are not effective as a counter to them.


as a guy with a sometimes shoddy connection i play anywhere from 60 ping all the way to days where i have spikes of 500 that force me to get off of the game. The assassin isn't a hitreg issue, its an animation one based on landing from JJ's and those odd *** hitboxes on the missile pods that count at frontal armor. Guarantee you that combined with its profile are what cause people to have problems.

On laggy days i have to put down the assassin, not pick it up. More recently when my nets evened itself out and FINALLY got that **** to go away mostly for good. Now I can happily run my assassin all day (along side the shadowcat / viper / etc: ) It is harder to take out if you know how to roll the damage. The only issues we've been able to discern are the two I keep repeating in this thread. If you're having hitreg issues with the assassin, its either lag spikes on you, or the assassins end (unlikely on the last one as i see more laggy players can't do **** anyway and they explode because the server puts them where it wants them.) Or you're expierencing the architecture of the mech voiding your shots much like the Cheetah and other mechs that have this exact "issue" are claimed to do. So far I've never had this occur in ANY mech EVEN the cheetah. Yes it might seem like it, but they aren't magically eating damage. Something's off, usually the users connection or aim most just wont own up to it OR they don't realize it at the time (the far more likely candidate as we're all likely guilty of this.)

#105 Grus

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 01:36 PM

View Posttker 669, on 19 December 2017 - 01:00 PM, said:


Streaks and even splat in general if you are not even half bad eats them.

I have a classic Scorch build on a MCII that can one shot at the most two, and wipe out Assassins.

If Clans started running some streak dogs or crows in the begining of CW match, say four or five, then the rest decent brawling builds, there would be no Assassin issue. Bet teams would stop running them fast.

That's why I want to see evidence as currently it is hard to tell if they are that messed up reg wise or is a good deal of it because erlg lasers are not effective as a counter to them.
I don't know if "the problem" is a good description but...
In FP bringing a dedicated streak boat or two can be a hinderence more than a benefit for clans. When we can see atlest 2 waves of 90/100 tonne assalts before seeing a fast mover the tonnage for streaks now becomes a liability. Add to the fact that I can count on one hand the amount of FP drops that I actually had the drop ID up so I can see what's coming. As for putting a few streaks on assalts that a big no.. considering the twist yaw being so slow streaks are a waste of tonnage. Better to spray that extra laser imo.

#106 Maker L106

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 02:16 PM

I can't help but feel like this is devolving into not a "Assassin has issues" thread and a "FP / CW has issues with the Assassin" thread. In which case, [redacted] I understand that FP / CW desperately needs help, attention, and some reworking. But the asssassin isn't causing the problems you describe, not bringing the right rock paper scissors argument to the table seems to be.

But as someone points out "Bring streaks / splat"

The retort is essentially "But that's less room for x"

None of that **** is the assassins problem. That's FW / CW's problem for people min/maxing for effect. I'll admit openly i've never once set foot in FP /CW though I'd like to. But if its a R/P/S as people complaint about despite everyone saying "direct fire X is meta"

I mean pardon me if i'm wrong but it seems wholly inconsistent to want a fix for your perceived issue only to refute the one given because it screws with your preconceived ideas of what works most of the time. If you are getting thrashed like this but its so uncommon that it doesn't warrant bringing splat /streaks then why care?

[Edit: might have taken it a little personal / too far, edited for content]

Edited by Maker L106, 19 December 2017 - 02:31 PM.


#107 ANOM O MECH

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 03:16 PM

View PostGrus, on 19 December 2017 - 01:36 PM, said:

I don't know if "the problem" is a good description but...
In FP bringing a dedicated streak boat or two can be a hinderence more than a benefit for clans. When we can see atlest 2 waves of 90/100 tonne assalts before seeing a fast mover the tonnage for streaks now becomes a liability. Add to the fact that I can count on one hand the amount of FP drops that I actually had the drop ID up so I can see what's coming. As for putting a few streaks on assalts that a big no.. considering the twist yaw being so slow streaks are a waste of tonnage. Better to spray that extra laser imo.
I know what you mean and that's why the deck I use is Crow, MCII, splat LBK, and a Arctic Wolf. Not a bad all around deck. As far as knowing what's coming, I know when I see who's over on red side. I have tried to let other pugs know but generally no one adjusts. Then when the ATMs, erlg's, and assortment of heavy lasers don't work people cry they're OP....

#108 FupDup

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 03:21 PM

From buying two Assassin variants in the recent sale, so far the "bug" I encounter the most is getting damaged in my rear side torso when my enemy appears to be in front of me. And I'm not even using the missile pods.

#109 Pariah Devalis

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 03:32 PM

View PostJediPanther, on 19 December 2017 - 10:23 AM, said:

Look at the armor amount in lab. Once you add st armor it has about 58 leg armor. Pain in the *** to leg might as well ct it out.


No.

I mean, yeah, it has heavy leg armor, but 40 out of 50 damage applied cleanly to one leg is far more threatening than 20 out of 50 to any specific torso, due to the way it spreads. Further, once the mech is legged, it's a near stationary 40-ton mech. No quirks or janky hitboxes will save its life at that point.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 19 December 2017 - 03:34 PM.


#110 JediPanther

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 06:50 PM

View PostPariah Devalis, on 19 December 2017 - 03:32 PM, said:


No.

I mean, yeah, it has heavy leg armor, but 40 out of 50 damage applied cleanly to one leg is far more threatening than 20 out of 50 to any specific torso, due to the way it spreads. Further, once the mech is legged, it's a near stationary 40-ton mech. No quirks or janky hitboxes will save its life at that point.


That was the point but people here can't think. In fast it is far easier to deal with any 97kph or faster mech by simply breaking the legs. Don't waste a lot of time missing ct shots and taking damage when you can just remove the speed advantage a faster mech has.

I guess target info is lostech but you should really target lock and fire at the mech's weakest points.

#111 Skipmagnet

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 09:50 AM

The fact that most players cannot aim effectively is the only thing keeping Light mechs in the game. If players learn to leg effectively, Lights will go to less than the 3% I saw them at for most of last night, permanently. As it is, Lights are already BDSM mode.

#112 MischiefSC

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 10:14 AM

View PostFupDup, on 17 December 2017 - 12:59 PM, said:

Does anyone have video evidence of this? Over the years pretty much every single skinny fast humanoid mech has been accused of having broken hitboxes. Spider, Commando, Firestarter, Panther, Wolfhound, Cheetah, Javelin, Mist Lynx (yes I'm serious I've seen people call the MLX's hitboxes broken), Stormcrow, now the Assassin...notice the pattern at all?

Even with my extreme unending cynicism of PGI's development, not even I believe that PGI could screw up hitboxes on so many mechs over such a long time period.



I'm pretty doubtful of that claim.

40-ton robots have up to 274 max armor without quirks. The Assassin's armor quirks bring this up to 323 (+49 armor spread across the whole body).

A quirkless 85-ton robot has 526 max armor.


I did a bunch of tests with 2 different people.

No videos but you're welcome to replicate it.

Shoot the ST. It's ST up to the shoulder. Have them move toward you and JJ, so you're only at a slight angle and shoot the ST.

Have them feather the JJs and shoot the leg. Remove all but 10 leg armor, use 2 MLs.

#113 kuma8877

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 11:43 AM

View PostJediPanther, on 19 December 2017 - 06:50 PM, said:


That was the point but people here can't think. In fast it is far easier to deal with any 97kph or faster mech by simply breaking the legs. Don't waste a lot of time missing ct shots and taking damage when you can just remove the speed advantage a faster mech has.

I guess target info is lostech but you should really target lock and fire at the mech's weakest points.

Though, a good light or light medium pilot isn't just going to give you their legs if they don't have to. It's pretty rare for me to get legged myself because I avoid presenting them as juicy targets when terrain and cover allow.

#114 The Lighthouse

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 11:53 AM

View Posteyeballs, on 20 December 2017 - 09:50 AM, said:

The fact that most players cannot aim effectively is the only thing keeping Light mechs in the game. If players learn to leg effectively, Lights will go to less than the 3% I saw them at for most of last night, permanently. As it is, Lights are already BDSM mode.


3%? Try 0%. Posted Image

Log in at off-prime hours (0~3 AM US Pacific time) and it is not uncommon to see 0% Light queue.

Edited by The Lighthouse, 20 December 2017 - 11:53 AM.


#115 JediPanther

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 11:59 AM

View Postkuma8877, on 20 December 2017 - 11:43 AM, said:

Though, a good light or light medium pilot isn't just going to give you their legs if they don't have to. It's pretty rare for me to get legged myself because I avoid presenting them as juicy targets when terrain and cover allow.


Agreed there. As a light pilot myself avoiding leg damage is top priority next to taking damage in general. Avoiding a streak boat or disengaging an enemy that aims only for legs are other things I try and do. As a general rule the faster a mech goes it either has an xl if it is an IS mech or weaker leg armor if clan mech. Which means it is easier to leg it out than try and core the ct but you should use common sense and target into data to decide which or combination will end your opponent faster.

#116 Grus

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 12:29 PM

View Postkuma8877, on 20 December 2017 - 11:43 AM, said:

Though, a good light or light medium pilot isn't just going to give you their legs if they don't have to. It's pretty rare for me to get legged myself because I avoid presenting them as juicy targets when terrain and cover allow.
so I noticed last night a lot of lrms in QP going for the assist event, so I got on my triple ams kitfox to troll them.. I had to not fire my weapons at all some times due to the absolute **** ton of middles flying around. Highest missle kills was over 1100... was crazy. A poor maddog had 6 Lrm 10s... I parked next to him and he never had a missle get more than 50m... I never needed to shoot him.. was so funny watching him get pissed.

#117 MechaBattler

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 12:35 PM

People used to say that about the Commando way back when. The Raven, the Spider, the Artic Cheater. Small mechs moving at high speed are a little harder to hit. Especially with slower projectile weapons. There's also the hit registration not always holding up under lag. Plenty of videos of people firing into enemies that are lagged out to seemingly no effect.

#118 DaFrog

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 02:05 PM

Well, this morning I was shooting at a shut down rifleman. I was aiming for the center torso, trying to get that tiny cockpit, and it registered as a left arm hit. twin heavy lasers. repositioned, aimed at center torso, left torso hit. Reposition, aim at CT, left arm hit.
AT 87 meters !
So it's not only ASSASSINS hit reg, it's mot hit regs.

#119 Y E O N N E

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 02:07 PM

Shut down or disconnect? Disconnects have sync issues.

#120 Tarogato

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Posted 20 December 2017 - 02:28 PM

View PostDaFrog, on 20 December 2017 - 02:05 PM, said:

Well, this morning I was shooting at a shut down rifleman. I was aiming for the center torso, trying to get that tiny cockpit, and it registered as a left arm hit. twin heavy lasers. repositioned, aimed at center torso, left torso hit. Reposition, aim at CT, left arm hit.
AT 87 meters !
So it's not only ASSASSINS hit reg, it's mot hit regs.


He was shut down for over 16 seconds? Because that's how long it takes to fire three shots with heavy larges.

Edited by Tarogato, 20 December 2017 - 04:31 PM.






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